MPH of the wind from Gust cantrip

[Dalebert]

It can blow a creature back 5 ft. What sort of wind is it creating to do that? Is it at least 10 mph? Seems like anything less than 10 mph wind is insufficient to blow a person like that.

This is relevant to my interests because my sorlock has a Staff of Swarming Insects and I love the Insect Cloud feature. It's basically the Devil's Sight + Darkness combo all in one because the wielder is the only one who isn't affected by heavy obscurement. The main drawback is not being able to end it for 10 minutes. It can't even be dispelled because it's not a spell. The only way to end it is with a 10 mph wind. I just realized I never picked my 6th cantrip from two levels back and Gust might be my ticket to cloud control.

I know there's no RAW answer and this is going to be a DM call. If I raised this question in an AL group on Facebook, I know the answer would be the tired and true "expect table variance". Just curious how folks here would rule on it. Maybe that'll give me an idea of how AL DMs will tend to rule before I waste a cantrip slot on something that would otherwise be a really crappy cantrip.

To be honest though, I can't think of another cantrip I'd want. I'd prolly go with Mending. He already has so many from being a tome lock sorcerer.

[ShikomeKidoMi]

10 miles per hour would actually be much slower than necessary to knock a full grown human back five feet so if your DM is fair, it should be acceptable.

[Cespenar]

Knocking a Medium creature back is no small feat. Basic physics give us at least something in the vicinity of 50 mph (depending on the person's weight) that's needed to push back an average person.

The fact that it's just 5 ft. means that it's a very short gust, something like 1 to 3 seconds.

Since it's limited enough to affect one person, the DM may rule so that it disperses only 5 ft square of insects, or something like that.

[Ninja_Prawn]

The fact that it's just 5 ft. means that it's a very short gust, something like 1 to 3 seconds.

Since it's limited enough to affect one person, the DM may rule so that it disperses only 5 ft square of insects, or something like that.

That seems reasonable to me. Gust can be quite forceful but very short in duration, so I would think it would disrupt part of a swarm of insects, rather than scattering the whole thing. Obviously this isn't a concern when there's no time pressure.

[Dalebert]

Since it's limited enough to affect one person, the DM may rule so that it disperses only 5 ft square of insects, or something like that.

I would agree if it were a natural swarm of insects but this is a magical effect that specifically says the effect ends and it doesn't say anything about the volume of the wind or how long it lasts. Here's the C&P straight from the DMG entry. I kind of picture it like removing one block from the bottom of a Jenga game.


A wind of at least 10 miles per hour disperses the swarm and ends the effect.

[Cespenar]

True, by RAW it would end, I guess.

[BiPolar]

I'd definitely lean on the side of Gust being powerful enough to disperse the storm. As has been previously stated, a 10mph wind is not very much at all. It takes at 15mph of steady wind to keep a flag flying straight out. Here's some descriptors from a kiteflying site (http://www.gombergkites.com/faq/faq-w.html):



1-3 mph Smoke drifts lazily, branches are still, flags hang limp

4-7 mph Tree leaves rustle, flags move slowly

8-12 mph Flags fly, bushes shake, leaves move

13-18 mph Small branches shake, grass moves

19-24 mph Large branches sway, flags flap noisily

25-31 mph Trees shake, dust and sand flies

[Dalebert]

It's worth noting that the decision also affects how an enemy could end it as well, earlier than I would prefer! If a DM decides it's really hard to end the effect, that both hinders and helps me depending on the context. It's mostly my party members who will pay the price. I can see through it.

Also, my character got a story aware that causes him to have a disturbing affinity for bugs (that also causes him to have permanent "wormholes" in much of his torso), and I use the term loosely because he especially likes spiders because he's drow.

[BiPolar]

It's worth noting that the decision also affects how an enemy could end it as well, earlier than I would prefer! If a DM decides it's really hard to end the effect, that both hinders and helps me depending on the context. It's mostly my party members who will pay the price. I can see through it.


Absolutely - just like on the stopping spellcasting thread, anything you can do situationally, the enemy can do..and maybe better.

[Coffee_Dragon]

I think the question is not just "does this particular little bit of moving air go at least 10 mph" but "is there enough of it to count as wind". Since I am generally in the camp of "spells do what they say" and enemy of "spell X accomplishes Y which should logically happen through effect Z so I can use it for anything else that I can argue is accomplished with Z", I would say no. Also the players die

[N810]

To actually move someone 5' we are talking about strong hurricane force winds we are talking 80-100 mph winds.

[BiPolar]

To actually move someone 5' we are talking about strong hurricane force winds we are talking 80-100 mph winds.

I think we're in agreement that the Cantrip Gust creates an air movement strong (greater than 10mph) enough to move a medium or small creature if they fail a strength check.

However, our esteemed colleague Coffee_Dragon drank some strong Joe this morning and reasoned that while it creates a strong movement of air, does that qualify as "wind".

At first, I disagreed, but then realized there is a 2nd level spell: Gust of Wind. This seems to be more applicable to move the Swarming Insects created by the Staff.

However, the staff does have up to 10 uses/day (depending on remaining charges) and covers a 30' area. It doesn't seem like the Gust Cantrip would move enough air to clear them out. However, Gust of Wind would absolutely do the trick. And a 2nd level spell to dissipate a multiple use item seems very reasonable. A cantrip...less so, but I could see the case for it if a DM wanted to do it.

[Coffee_Dragon]

To actually move someone 5' we are talking about strong hurricane force winds we are talking 80-100 mph winds.

But that's only relevant for the spell if we assume it can only move people by slamming air into them hard enough to transfer momentum that way, in which case why do they only move exactly 5', never lose their footing and so on. Presumably there's some magical element of pushing or carrying by the very elemental forces of air themselves which doesn't translate into air speed.

[Joe the Rat]

But that's only relevant for the spell if we assume it can only move people by slamming air into them hard enough to transfer momentum that way, in which case why do they only move exactly 5', never lose their footing and so on. Presumably there's some magical element of pushing or carrying by the very elemental forces of air themselves which doesn't translate into air speed.

Gust acts more like a telekinetic push that happens to generate a mild breeze at the same time.

[Dalebert]

I have had some DMs tell me that I can just cancel the effect. That's not the RAW though. It doesn't say you can end the effect early. I wonder if that was intended or just an oversight on their part.