How good is the Courser Swashbuckler?

[ShiningCrusader]

Hi Everyone, i currently playing a inspired blade swashbuckler and i just recently discovered the courser archtype. man is the fluff and the abilities cool!! i mean wall run up to 40ft horizontally or 20ft vertically or 80/40 if you use 2 move actions, free dodge and spring attack as well.....but you lose parry and riposte deed which i love so much. is this archetype worth losing parry/riposte? i mean its possible if you dip into devoted muse for 4 lvs to regain it (though that lv9 roughly), but it would delay precise strike damage for 3 lvs as well.

[Serafina]

Well, let's see what you get out of it:
+10 foot land speed, the ability to run along walls, being better at jumping, and a somewhat improved spring attack.

So basically, this character is based around Spring Attack. You get faster movement to support it, and can eventually make two attacks with it.
And let's be frank here: Spring Attack isn't terribly good.
Everyone can already move and make one attack. That's either "move, then standard-action attack", or if you need to go further, it's a charge. Yes, that can provoke AoOs, but that's what Acrobatics is there for. The advantage is that you can move before and after an attack, and thus never be in the enemies reach for attacks. Which is good if the enemy can't move, but if they do, well they get as many attacks as you do.
And eventually, you really want to get your full attack going. Using Spring Attack every round to bound between enemies and hit them will always cost you at least one attack, and actually more on account of Haste or other effects. So that's not that great.

And the maximum of optimization one can do upon Spring Attack is having Combat Stamina in the game, in which case you can do it as a Standard Action. Which is nice, since it allows a double move plus attack, but also stamina-expensive and of course not all games permit that anyway.
There's also Spring-Heeled Reaping (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/spring-heeled-reaping-combat), which actually gives the "attack twice" ability this archetype does. Since it's feat-based and the archetype doesn't even have the good grace of giving it sooner, you might almost PrC or multi-class out. Spring-Heeled Sprint is also good for doubling the move you get off Spring Attack, so together with the combat trick you can actually get triple movement out of this and thus actually beat out a charger in mobility.


Bottom line:
Doing this archetypes main trick will need a bunch of feats to be better than just charging or moving normally in most combats. Using it more than just to engage will cost you attacks sooner or later.
If you get Opportune Parry and Riposte back from somewhere else, this can be decent-ish, but really the archetype only has two unique tricks - one is bad, the other is replaced by flying.

[ShiningCrusader]

Well, let's see what you get out of it:
+10 foot land speed, the ability to run along walls, being better at jumping, and a somewhat improved spring attack.

So basically, this character is based around Spring Attack. You get faster movement to support it, and can eventually make two attacks with it.
And let's be frank here: Spring Attack isn't terribly good.
Everyone can already move and make one attack. That's either "move, then standard-action attack", or if you need to go further, it's a charge. Yes, that can provoke AoOs, but that's what Acrobatics is there for. The advantage is that you can move before and after an attack, and thus never be in the enemies reach for attacks. Which is good if the enemy can't move, but if they do, well they get as many attacks as you do.
And eventually, you really want to get your full attack going. Using Spring Attack every round to bound between enemies and hit them will always cost you at least one attack, and actually more on account of Haste or other effects. So that's not that great.

And the maximum of optimization one can do upon Spring Attack is having Combat Stamina in the game, in which case you can do it as a Standard Action. Which is nice, since it allows a double move plus attack, but also stamina-expensive and of course not all games permit that anyway.
There's also Spring-Heeled Reaping (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/spring-heeled-reaping-combat), which actually gives the "attack twice" ability this archetype does. Since it's feat-based and the archetype doesn't even have the good grace of giving it sooner, you might almost PrC or multi-class out. Spring-Heeled Sprint is also good for doubling the move you get off Spring Attack, so together with the combat trick you can actually get triple movement out of this and thus actually beat out a charger in mobility.


Bottom line:
Doing this archetypes main trick will need a bunch of feats to be better than just charging or moving normally in most combats. Using it more than just to engage will cost you attacks sooner or later.
If you get Opportune Parry and Riposte back from somewhere else, this can be decent-ish, but really the archetype only has two unique tricks - one is bad, the other is replaced by flying.

hmmm...your right. its takes a lot of feats and careful fighting to make it work. and we do have few arcane casters that can eventually use flight/overland flight/etc. should just stick with what i got.