Which Rare magic sword is better?

[sflame56]

Sword of Wounding, Flame tongue, or Sunblade?

[DMDAZ]

That would all depend on what type of character whoever is using the weapon use. The SoW is good for characters that you'd expect to only hit a few times per turn, or characters that you'd expect to dart in, land an attack with lasting influence, and then flee. Typical rogue characters fit this bill.

FT is a good fit for anybody focused on outputting damage or anybody who likes the flavor of melting enemies with a freaking fire sword.

Lastly, the SB is good for any do-good clerics, paladins or one weapon fighters looking to take advantage of a good DEX stat in addition with some good feats, like Defensive Duelist. Good on rangers, fighters or even the odd sorcerer.

Personal opinion? I like the idea of lightsabers in D&D. S'all I'm sayin'.

[sflame56]

That would all depend on what type of character whoever is using the weapon use. The SoW is good for characters that you'd expect to only hit a few times per turn, or characters that you'd expect to dart in, land an attack with lasting influence, and then flee. Typical rogue characters fit this bill.

FT is a good fit for anybody focused on outputting damage or anybody who likes the flavor of melting enemies with a freaking fire sword.

Lastly, the SB is good for any do-good clerics, paladins or one weapon fighters looking to take advantage of a good DEX stat in addition with some good feats, like Defensive Duelist. Good on rangers, fighters or even the odd sorcerer.

Personal opinion? I like the idea of lightsabers in D&D. S'all I'm sayin'.

Well I am playing as a Bladesinger right now so I can atleast hit 3 times and we are playing in the Storm King Thunder. I get too choose from any rare item and these were the 3 that peaked my interest the most. I am trying to increase my damage by a lot more so I can melee a bit more. I just don't know if the FT would out damage the SoW after enough hits. I do know though I can hit 3 times with blade song and haste so that is 6d6 damage on FT and Sow is 3 stacks of 3d4. There is the issue of all the fire resistance that the giants do have which is another issue.

[Vogonjeltz]

Sword of Wounding, Flame tongue, or Sunblade?

Probably the Sunblade or Flametongue for their other properties.

[KnotaGuru]

Sword of wounding is not going to help you. All those bleeding stacks go away after a DC 15 Con save that doesn't even require an action. Giants have good con scores. Instead, get a giant slayer sword. It's +1, deals 2d6 extra to giants, and has a chance to knock a giant prone, providing advantage to you and your melee friends.

[Squiddish]

Just remember, the sun sword is the a (or possibly the) versatile finesse weapon, so rogues can use it and still get sneak attack.

[luagha]

Just remember, the sun sword is the a (or possibly the) versatile finesse weapon, so rogues can use it and still get sneak attack.

All barbarians are required to have a Fabulous Sun Sword.

"Ariel! Ookla! We ride!"

[suplee215]

Sunblade is a +2 weapon on top of it other features so it takes the cake. sad to say but hitting more often is just too good to pass up.

[toapat]

Sunblade is a +2 weapon on top of it other features so it takes the cake. sad to say but hitting more often is just too good to pass up.

that ignores the single greatest strength of the Sunblade. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhNx97LYg_8)

[LudicSavant]

Sword of Wounding (Edit: See my later post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21642537&postcount=24) for more detailed analysis)

Sun Blade is mostly a slightly stronger +2 weapon, unless you're fighting undead a lot. Unlike a regular +2 weapon, though, it takes up an attunement slot, which is generally a bad deal if you have the option of getting 3 attunement items in addition to your rare sword.

Flametongue sacrifices accuracy and an attunement slot in return for typed damage (and a type that's commonly resisted). Characters with a very high chance to hit, GWF style, many attacks, and no attunement competition will get the most benefit out of this.

[toapat]

Sun Blade is mostly a slightly stronger +2 weapon, unless you're fighting undead a lot. Unlike a regular +2 weapon, though, it takes up an attunement slot, which is generally a bad deal if you have the option of getting 3 attunement items in addition to your rare sword.

Do remember the lightsaber does radiant damage, not slashing damage. The Sun Blade is one of the only items that can hurt Tiamat. For all the good trying to melee a god is worth

[LudicSavant]

Do remember the lightsaber does radiant damage, not slashing damage. The Sun Blade is one of the only items that can hurt Tiamat. For all the good trying to melee a god is worth

Radiant damage isn't exactly a big upgrade from magical slashing in terms of general purpose damage types. The difference only matters in a few edge cases.

[Foxhound438]

for pure unresisted damage, sword of wounding is pretty much outclassed out the gate. Past that, assuming the flametongue is a longsword like the sunblade:

Flametongue: d8+2d6+7 (18.5) * .65 (standard accuracy) = 12.0

sunblade: d8+9 (13.5) * .75 (accuracy with +2) = 10.125

Only in cases where you're fighting significantly higher than average AC monsters will the sunblade actually deal more average damage. I'm talking like, your PC with a +0 weapon would have to roll a 15 on the die to even hit.

That said, the resistance to fire damage is common, and to a lesser extent so is resistance and immunity to slashing. So for a lot of enemies the pure radiant damage is going to be a huge boon.

On the other hand a flametongue can be other things than just a longsword, so for things like monks (who actually need to use a shortsword if they're going to use a sword at all) or barbarians (who want to use great weapon master all the time) the flametonge is going to be preferred.

[Sicarius Victis]

for pure unresisted damage, sword of wounding is pretty much outclassed out the gate. Past that, assuming the flametongue is a longsword like the sunblade:

Flametongue: d8+2d6+7 (18.5) * .65 (standard accuracy) = 12.0

sunblade: d8+9 (13.5) * .75 (accuracy with +2) = 10.125

Only in cases where you're fighting significantly higher than average AC monsters will the sunblade actually deal more average damage. I'm talking like, your PC with a +0 weapon would have to roll a 15 on the die to even hit.

That said, the resistance to fire damage is common, and to a lesser extent so is resistance and immunity to slashing. So for a lot of enemies the pure radiant damage is going to be a huge boon.

On the other hand a flametongue can be other things than just a longsword, so for things like monks (who actually need to use a shortsword if they're going to use a sword at all) or barbarians (who want to use great weapon master all the time) the flametonge is going to be preferred.

I do believe the Sun Blade is considered both a longsword and a shortsword. So yes, Monks can wield Sun Blades.

[Foxhound438]

I do believe the Sun Blade is considered both a longsword and a shortsword. So yes, Monks can wield Sun Blades.

nope. you're considered proficient if you have shortswords, but the type of weapon is in fact longsword. Just because the monk is proficient with it does not make it an actual shortsword.

[War_lord]

I thought the best thing about the Sun Blade was that the entire table can start talking about Jolly Cooperation and Praising the Sun in character without a hint of irony?

[Arkhios]

I would imagine Sword of Wounding only good with excessive spamming of Bestow Curse, and only when targeting Constitution (e.g. disadvantage on Constitution Saving Throws)

Bestow Curse is a wizard spell, so maybe if that's what you like to cast every so often, then maybe pick Sword of Wounding. If not, well, look above.

[Dr. Cliché]

that ignores the single greatest strength of the Sunblade. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhNx97LYg_8)

Yeah, I think this one has to go to the fantasy lightsaber. For being a fantasy lightsaber.

Now we just need a red version that deals necrotic damage and the black knight will be complete. :smallbiggrin:

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Do remember the lightsaber does radiant damage, not slashing damage. The Sun Blade is one of the only items that can hurt Tiamat. For all the good trying to melee a god is worth

Tiamat possesses immunity to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage from nonmagical weapons. A standard magical sword will do just fine against her.

[Dr. Cliché]

Tiamat possesses immunity to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage from nonmagical weapons. A standard magical sword will do just fine against her.

Gods have really gone downhill since 3.5. :smalltongue:

[Sir cryosin]

As a bladesinger are you more focused on Dex or STR. If Dex pick the sun blade and be that Jedi we all want to be. If you are more STR and want some more damage for flametonge.

[toapat]

Tiamat possesses immunity to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage from nonmagical weapons. A standard magical sword will do just fine against her.

isnt she also immune or at least resistant to Fire, lightning, acid, poison, and Cold damage?

[TheTeaMustFlow]

isnt she also immune or at least resistant to Fire, lightning, acid, poison, and Cold damage?

Yes. But most magical weapons don't do those kinds of damage, Flame Tongues and such excepted.

[LudicSavant]

We can use a binomial distribution to figure out the typical amount of rounds (and therefore the typical damage) for Sword of Wounding.

http://i.imgur.com/4tDSrwy.png

(Note that results are rounded to the nearest tenth)

Expected total Necrotic damage dealt by a Sword of Wounding hit, based on the enemy's Constitution save. In order to surpass the Flametongue's raw damage, you need to wait 3 rounds on an enemy with a Constitution save of no more than +1 (any higher and you expect your wounds to end earlier). Either that or be getting some mileage out of the "no healing" feature of Sword of Wounding somehow.

Note that this is if you hit the enemy in only one round. If you hit them in later rounds as well, the Sword of Wounding deals less average damage per hit, because making a successful save removes all wounds.

[ApplePen]

Wouldn't you want to hit them more often, as the save happens after the damage?

[LudicSavant]

Wouldn't you want to hit them more often, as the save happens after the damage?

Yes, you want to hit them as often as possible. You just need to be aware that your average expected damage from two rounds of interaction is not necessarily 2x the average expected damage of one round of interaction, and so forth.

For example, say your opponent makes their first Constitution save on round 4 (the expected outcome of a target having -1 to Constitution saving throws), removing all wounds. In that case, your round 1 attacks did 4 ticks of damage, your round 2 attacks did 3 ticks of damage, your round 3 attacks did 2 ticks of damage, and your round 4 attacks did 1 tick of damage.

So, if you have 16 strength and hit with 2 longsword attacks per turn, your total damage output for your round 1 action is 2d8+26 (35), for round two is 2d8+21 (30), for round 3 is 2d8+16 (25), and for round 4 is 2d8+11 (20), for 110 total.

By contrast, a Flametongue's damage output would be 2d8+4d6+6 (29) for all 4 rounds, for 116 total. So, even though the enemy had -1 to Constitution saves, and the fight lasted 4 rounds during which they didn't make their saving throw, the Flametongue still dealt more damage in that particular scenario.

Basically, a Flametongue is just about always going to outperform a Sword of Wounding in a conventional slugfest, and often dramatically so. A Sword of Wounding might pull ahead in a situation where you make fewer weapon attacks over more rounds, against an enemy who possesses healing abilities. Or, of course, if elemental immunities/resistances/vulnerabilities are favoring one weapon or the other.