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View Full Version : What books do you use when you DM??



mudbunny
2007-07-20, 01:07 PM
I just started DMing (a pbp game on another site), and have restricted it to the Core books, if only to make it easier on me. The next game I DM I will probably expand that to include the PHB II and Complete Arcane, while I am currently reading over the Eberrion Campaign Setting, the Player's Guide to Eberron (gahh what a mistake) and Expedition to Undermountain for future games.

So what books are in when you DM??

Taurus
2007-07-20, 01:13 PM
I feel that mechanically fleshing out your character is extremely important, so I allow nearly everything, and even allow my players to homebrew up their own feats, spells, etc.

The thing with that, though, is that you have to make sure it balances out with everything else, or tweak it until it does. I don't really have much trouble with that myself, so for my players, the sky's the limit.

But not really, 'cause there's Planes and stuff too.

Fualkner Asiniti
2007-07-20, 01:17 PM
All. I never say no to something, be it book or homebrew. As long as it isn't broken or stupid, it's good. "Limit" is just a word for the uncreative.

Taurus
2007-07-20, 01:21 PM
***SNIP*** "Limit" is just a word for the uncreative.

Amen, brother!

mudbunny
2007-07-20, 01:23 PM
Limit is also a word that should be used for new DMs (like me). As I get more experience DMing, I will expand the books that are allowed. Until then...

Superglucose
2007-07-20, 01:26 PM
My rule is as follows:

Anything from the core three books is perfectly okay, you do not need to clear it with me beforehand, though you do need to tell me so that I can explain exactly why your character isn't as advantaged as you thought...

Anything from any other source must be cleared with me ahead of time.

I know from experience that most expanded sourcebooks are really only sourcebooks for breaking open games that I prefer to remain nice and shut. So I examine them first, to see if there's anything that I need to be worried about in them.

Oh, and based on the campaign, I often get rid of certain core rules or make them different. Once I DMed a campaign in the tundra, and I decided anything made of wood cost twice as much as normal, and alll fire based spells were spell level +1.

Counterspin
2007-07-20, 01:34 PM
I don't limit books at all, because I want the players to be able to create their characters from whichever mechanics they like. If something turns out to be obviously busted, I'd rather go back and fix it then restrict the players from the get go.

AKA_Bait
2007-07-20, 01:44 PM
Like ^ CORE is is ok without consulting me. I also allow anything from PHBII without looking. Anything from outside those sources I need to see first. IMO there is just too much additional source material and too many feats/items that are unbalanced for me to allow my players to run amok with anything from anyplace. Typically, I'll allow whatever it is so long as I have the book or the player can lend me the book it is in so I can check it out thouroughtly bettween sessions.

And no, I don't think that limit is just a word for uncreative. Part of your job as DM is to make sure the game is balanced for everyone playing so that no one person hogs all of the spotlight by virtue of having a feat or item or somesuch that is overpowered.

Yes, they could have that and the DM could work around it but
a) players (at least mine) don't like feeling like the DM is nerfing them in session. It's one thing to not allow something for anyone in the game. It's another to allow it but then nerf them when they capitalize on it.
b) If you play it on the fly too far the entire structure of your campagin world can get thrown off kilter. I tend to have very complicated campagin settings in which the PC's moves effect all sorts of things they never see, or don't see until much much later. Going by the seat of my pants doesn't really work.
c) Similar to b, sometimes things need to be excluded because they just don't fit with the campagin world you have created for one reason or another. versimilitude is important.

Also, sometimes items or things need to be excluded because they don't fit with the flavor of your campagin setting.

LotharBot
2007-07-20, 01:45 PM
I started with the core books.

Over time, I expanded slowly to include other books. And I always retain veto power.

tainsouvra
2007-07-20, 01:48 PM
Core is automatically ok.
Anything else requires approval from the DM and group.

Approval is easy to get, only obviously-broken combinations get rejected, and the reason for rejecting it is explained.

ndragonsbane
2007-07-20, 01:51 PM
Anything, but the PC's HAVE to inform me of what they're playing at the beginning (and I scrutinize the sheets to familiarize myself with the PC's and their abilities) and then they are required to inform me of what changes they make as they level up. This way the PC's can use those "cool" new sources they pick up and I don't have to worry about having something sneak in that I cannot deal with. It's a rare circumstance where I have a character take something I can't deal with.

There is an exception to this. The PC's cannot use third-party published material, all the books must be official for the system we are playing. If a third party material is used I have to either own it or have read it until I'm intimately familiar with it. Granted, this is not a problem for us because I'm just about the only person who even considers outside material (and always as a DM...go Cry Havoc!).

FireSpark
2007-07-20, 02:00 PM
I scanned every book I have into my laptop. No matter where I go, I have my D&D library with me, so any book I have (which is most of them) is fair game.

Superglucose
2007-07-20, 02:03 PM
As for that, when I DM I always make my players make two copies of their character sheet when they make the character, and I keep track of everything they gain. If they have something that's not on my copy of the sheet, then they better not have it on their copy of the sheet.

Of course, sometimes I do make mistakes, so it's not as hard a rule as that, but it lets me do other things too, like not have to ask 'what is your armor class' etc.

Jayabalard
2007-07-20, 02:08 PM
All. I never say no to something, be it book or homebrew. As long as it isn't broken or stupid, it's good. firstly, you set limits... you say so yourself, your limits are "As long as it isn't broken or stupid" which are at least as arbitrary as any other limitations


"Limit" is just a word for the uncreative.
I disagree 100%. There is nothing inherently uncreative about limitations or creative about the lack of limitations. if anything, the opposite is true.

Building a world that is consistent, with believable limitations requires quite a bit of creativity. without that creativity, it's not consistent or believable.

Building a world with no limits doesn't require any creativity; certainly, you can be creative it that sort of situation, but no more creative than in the former type of world.

Fualkner Asiniti
2007-07-20, 02:13 PM
firstly, you set limits... you say so yourself, your limits are "As long as it isn't broken or stupid" which are at least as arbitrary as any other limitations


I disagree 100%. There is nothing inherently uncreative about limitations or creative about the lack of limitations. if anything, the opposite is true.

Building a world that is consistent, with believable limitations requires quite a bit of creativity. without that creativity, it's not consistent or believable.

Building a world with no limits doesn't require any creativity; certainly, you can be creative it that sort of situation, but no more creative than in the former type of world.


Well of course there are limits. Gravity still exists in my games, as does air, trees, and half-dragon paladins of tyranny. Of course everyone has limits, I'm just saying mine are quite lax. The mundane and the unbelievible both exist in my worlds, they compliment each other, and my players enjoy it. And in the end, that is the only point of D&D. If everyone is enjoying it, DM and Players, you win.

End of Story.

tainsouvra
2007-07-20, 02:15 PM
Well of course there are limits. Gravity still exists in my games, as does air, trees, and half-dragon paladins of tyranny. Of course everyone has limits, I'm just saying mine are quite lax. I believe the point was that lax limits and creativity are not in any way related. They are two completely different attributes.

Iku Rex
2007-07-20, 02:21 PM
Any WotC DnD book. Nothing glaringly absurd (pun-pun) and/or obviously "un-errataed" (feral template).

The players are all grownups and former DMs - I see no point in making arbitrary restrictions based on which book a class or item or spell happened to appear in.

Quietus
2007-07-20, 02:26 PM
I have a list of things I'll give a flat "go ahead" to : Core, plus Draconomicon, and feats from certain books. There's a few that I ban outright : ToB (don't have access) and anything Psionic (flavor reasons) are among them.

Other than that, I'll gladly review individual requests, and I'm more than willing to bend rules if I think something's particularly cool.

Matthew
2007-07-22, 09:23 PM
In general, I only allow Core by default (and even then there are things I don't allow), but I admit a great many things from other sources on a case by case basis.

SadisticFishing
2007-07-22, 09:42 PM
I have banned no books, but Time Stop and all equivalents are strongly frowned upon.

Dhavaer
2007-07-22, 09:48 PM
There's very few things I'll allow all of. I think Tome of Battle is the one exception, although I haven't really looked through the prestige classes yet. In the campaign I'm creating at the moment, I'm allowing Psionics (except Wilders, and only Maenads and possibly Elans from the races), Tome of Magic (except Truenaming), Complete Warrior (except Samurai, which are replaced by the OA version), Complete Adventurer (except Spellthieves), Complete Arcane (except Wu Jen), Core (except Monks, Paladins and Wizards, and almost everything else is houseruled to a greater or lesser extent), PHB2 (except Duskblades) and a few things from a bunch of other sources (like Dread Necromancers, Skarn, Vashar, etc).

Anxe
2007-07-22, 10:46 PM
All the MM books. It's all you really need.

Diggorian
2007-07-22, 11:34 PM
The only books my players tend to buy or look at are WotC published. If they want something non-core I consider how it matches the flavor of my camp, how it's balanced compared to similar core material, then decide whether or not to allow - tweak - or ban it.

I tend to be conservative overall.

StickMan
2007-07-22, 11:49 PM
I alow anything from Core no matter what. Psionics as it is as core as it gets with out being in the main 3 books. The Complete books are normaly in with a glance and then I normaly let anything else fly as long as its from wizards and I can see the book. I let people home brew stuff but they need to post it on this board or the wizards board first to a low people to look over it who spend even more time looking for abuse than I do. Well unless its minor stuff.

BrokenButterfly
2007-07-23, 06:10 PM
In my current campaigns I've allowed anything from any book, as long as it was cleared with me beforehand. Yet some of my players were sneaking around with characters behind my back, chucking in stuff from brand-new texts. Even when I'd cleared it, problems popped up every so often simply because I didn't have a sufficient grasp of "x", since I didn't own the material that many of my players did. To avoid situations like that, I think I'll DM in the future with only the Core books.

But in terms of campaign writing I like to use monsters from all over the place. I enjoy using my ample monster knowledge if I can, but I rarely write my own adventures when I DM.

Fax Celestis
2007-07-23, 06:26 PM
My players are free to use any source--including homebrew, 3.0 material, etc.--they can provide me ready access to. Further, they have to approve character concepts, proposed build, and background with me. I find that, nine times out of ten, I can catch twinkage before it starts. And if something gets by me, I reserve the ability to require the player to alter their character--at no penalty--at a later time.

SadisticFishing
2007-07-23, 07:10 PM
Oh I forgot I don't allow Dragon Magazine, partly because it's often stronger (some of the races are silly), but mostly because I can't double check it, which I do with everything that I can, partly because my players make big inferences about things (my god you should have seen the start of the campaign, with the crusader - none of us had played ToB before), but mostly because I can :P

Curmudgeon
2007-07-24, 03:29 PM
Anything by WotC that I own. I'll also allow single excerpts (a feat, an item, a spell) from player-owned books if I can borrow it to copy the item in question. But feat chains and classes are just too complex to work with if I don't have the source myself, so those things are excluded.

TheThan
2007-07-24, 03:57 PM
With me the core rules are always acceptable.

When it comes to other sourcebooks it strongly depends on what setting or style of game I’m playing.
For instance I wouldn’t allow a warforged in a Darksun game. Neither would I allow psionics in a game that strongly emphases magic (because the two are different!). Some times I’ll allow only certain material from one book, and nothing else from it. One thing is for certain, I do not allow material from sources I don’t have access to.

Usually when I create a campaign setting I go for a certain feel with emphasis on specific elements, and letting my players have unrestricted access to anything can quite easily kill the game world I just spent months making. I enjoy world building and I want to see my players have fun in the worlds I build, not tear them apart at the seams because of something I didn’t notice.

I strive to make my world as internally consistent as a can, and still allow my players with enough freedom to enjoy the character creation process.

AslanCross
2007-07-24, 04:17 PM
Currently running a Forgotten Realms game, so it's everything core + FR. Psionics are banned.

Arbitrarity
2007-07-24, 04:29 PM
PGTF has Incantatrix. Beware.

Personally, I allow stuff after a read-over. Homebrew is generally allowed, but some things are out, from either experience, or reading. IOTSOV, Ur-Priest, Incantatrix, that sort of thing.

I've caused a few of DMs to begin rapidly banning books, thanks to the Internet.

prufock
2007-07-24, 04:43 PM
As a DM, I mainly use only the three core books, and let my storytelling fill in the blanks. However, I will draw from other sources from time to time (mostly WoL, CW, and the extra MMs). No book is "off limits" for my players - I just want to examine it first. Core is allowable "off the shelf," and I usually only give a cursory glance to anything from the Complete series. And if the player wants something that isn't readily available in the books, I'll help them create what they want.

Manave_E_Sulanul
2007-07-24, 05:13 PM
Pretty generally, during character creation, I allow anything that is in a book I own unless it is something that makes absolutely no sense in the campaign setting I am using at the time whatsoever and even then such restrictions are usually made public ahead of time and are few.

I'm not too hard on twinkery, unless it is blatantly obvious because my players are told ahead of time that twinkery will be answered in kind. I don't do anything cruel but if someone is playing a spiked chain wielding dwarf with super-power attack action then they should expect their opponents to notice that this is the player's strategy and act accordingly.

It helps that I'm more familiar with the mechanics than most of my players and almost all of the DMs I've ever participated in a game with and I would perhaps suggest something a little stricter for someone who isn't at least familiar with the basics of what is considered effective.

Damionte
2007-07-24, 06:33 PM
In our current game we're playing in our own home brewed world.

My turn to GM is coming up in a month or so. I'll be allowign all of the non campaign world specific Wizards 3.5 stuff. With a few exceptions that I let them know about.

As for what books I use while I G, usually I only need the Players Handbook, DMG, and Monster Manual right in front of me. Everything else can stay on the shelf and we'll pull it if we really really need it.

To keep clutter off the table I ask that the players make notes with quick discriptions of all of thier feats and spells on it. They can keep this tucked in behind thier character sheets. Most of the crew keeps thier sheets in little folders.

This saves space, and makes it quick and easy to reference abilities without having to trudge through the hard backs. We keep the hard backs nearby though in case we need a word for word discritpion of something.

BardicDuelist
2007-07-24, 06:50 PM
I generally don't allow anything I'm not familiar with. If I have read the book, it is usually ok, except in cases where the majority of the people playing object to somthing.

If I have created a specific world for the campaign, I allow any book, but may ban certain things from the book (such as a monk, ninja, or samurai in a campaign set in a 16th century London-esque city).