Just how bad is 7 wiz, 7 int, and 7 cha--all at once?

[Zhentarim]

...and how would you play that?

I got a really low point buy in a game, and in order to be a good fighter, I had to brain drain. I'm wondering if this is regular stupid or hulk-speak stupid?

[Flickerdart]

The standard deviation for 3d6 (NPC score generation) is 3.0. The average standard deviation on IQ is 15. So your guy is the equivalent of someone with ~85 IQ points - a little dim, but perfectly capable of speaking and reading. He's just as smart or smarter than 16% of people!

[mistermysterio]

If you look up scores...

6-7 cha - uninteresting, rude, boorish, and generally unpleasant to be around

6-7 wis - seems to have almost no common sense

6-7 int - dull-witted or slow, often misuses and mispronounces words

[CasualViking]

Regular stupid. Hulk-speak stupid optional. Think your average gym-bro, then make yourself *less* stupid and obnoxius than that.

[icefractal]

It's dumb (and unwise, and unimpressive), but not that dumb. People would notice you're not too sharp, but you'd still be able to do most things fine, you just probably shouldn't be the one making the plans. With that low Wisdom though, you might very well think you should be the one making the plans (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect).

With the combination of low Wisdom and Charisma, you should watch out when doing any negotiation, you could get tricked into a bad deal more easily than most.

[Zanos]

Regular stupid. As Flickerdart mentioned, a standard deviation down on all mental abilities. Still probably incapable of improving a situation by opening his mouth.

[INoKnowNames]

Pretty sure this question can be answered in a single icon (hence this filler for word-count):

:thog:

[Mato]

Q: Just how bad is 7 wiz, 7 int, and 7 cha--all at once?
:thog:: Great, Thog's therapist said "noooo stop hitting me!" but axing was successful.

[Flickerdart]

Pretty sure this question can be answered in a single icon (hence this filler for word-count):

:thog:

Nah, this guy would have a limited vocabulary, but even small children master grammar and the word "I" easily.

[Karl Aegis]

I just sort of assume you are the guy who thought it was a good idea to get Dog the Bounty Hunter after you. A little bit lower and you're the guy who thought it was a good idea to mouth off to Dog the Bounty Hunter.

[Coidzor]

Depends on how low your estimation of the average 4channer is.

[INoKnowNames]

Nah, this guy would have a limited vocabulary, but even small children master grammar and the word "I" easily.

I thought part of that was because of him being an illiterate Barbarian.

[Segev]

I have a friend who is about 80-90 IQ, due to brain damage when he was an infant. Talking to him, you probably wouldn't realize it at all. He's not stupid, in the sense that he's noticeably incapable of making cogent observations. He is, however, slow to learn, and doesn't do analysis well. He takes things at face value, and he gets "stuck" on opinions and evaluations he's heard or painstakingly formed. He doesn't adapt well.


Playing straight 7s in mental stats means that your character probably is annoying more than endearing. He makes gaffs; he has limited social awareness and if something was funny with his buddies at the lunch table at school, it's funny in front of one's prim and proper grandparents. He can't really be trusted with his own short-term impulse-decisions. He's susceptible to flattery and scams if he doesn't have somebody he trusts and who is trustworthy looking out for him. And even then, his tendency to believe things he WANTS to be true will make him occasionally belligerent or resentful when told he shouldn't do something.

He needn't speak poorly, though he shouldn't be making lengthy soliloquies of brilliant insight. When he speaks at length, he may well be talking about something he knows well and be right. But he may also be talking about something he knows less well than he thinks he does, but has strong opinions about because he wants them to be true. Or because he's parroting what he's heard others say.

While he's annoying when he gets focused on something and won't let go, and can be abrasive, that doesn't make him entirely unlikable. But it does take a little more effort to be his friend, or consider him a loved one. He doesn't have to be overtly stupid, but he isn't going to be making too many insightful observations and he probably doesn't even WANT to analyze things too deeply, as keeping everything straight long enough to force the logic through for inductive and deductive reasoning is too much effort. Especially with how often he'll slip a cog in the logic machine and get it wrong anyway.

He isn't going to do "dumb" (i.e. unwise) things all the time, but he is less likely to realize that a "fun" idea is not a "good" idea. And he'll either be too trusting or too quick to distrust, depending on whether he likes somebody or not. He isn't good at reading people, unless he really works at it by pumping Sense Motive.


Hope that helps paint a rough picture. I wouldn't Flanderize these stats. Just...let him be a little obnoxious and abrasive. Let him be slow to make leaps of logic, and dislike things that require heavy thought. Let him be easily fooled and fixated on things he wants.

[Zhentarim]

I have a friend who is about 80-90 IQ, due to brain damage when he was an infant. Talking to him, you probably wouldn't realize it at all. He's not stupid, in the sense that he's noticeably incapable of making cogent observations. He is, however, slow to learn, and doesn't do analysis well. He takes things at face value, and he gets "stuck" on opinions and evaluations he's heard or painstakingly formed. He doesn't adapt well.


Playing straight 7s in mental stats means that your character probably is annoying more than endearing. He makes gaffs; he has limited social awareness and if something was funny with his buddies at the lunch table at school, it's funny in front of one's prim and proper grandparents. He can't really be trusted with his own short-term impulse-decisions. He's susceptible to flattery and scams if he doesn't have somebody he trusts and who is trustworthy looking out for him. And even then, his tendency to believe things he WANTS to be true will make him occasionally belligerent or resentful when told he shouldn't do something.

He needn't speak poorly, though he shouldn't be making lengthy soliloquies of brilliant insight. When he speaks at length, he may well be talking about something he knows well and be right. But he may also be talking about something he knows less well than he thinks he does, but has strong opinions about because he wants them to be true. Or because he's parroting what he's heard others say.

While he's annoying when he gets focused on something and won't let go, and can be abrasive, that doesn't make him entirely unlikable. But it does take a little more effort to be his friend, or consider him a loved one. He doesn't have to be overtly stupid, but he isn't going to be making too many insightful observations and he probably doesn't even WANT to analyze things too deeply, as keeping everything straight long enough to force the logic through for inductive and deductive reasoning is too much effort. Especially with how often he'll slip a cog in the logic machine and get it wrong anyway.

He isn't going to do "dumb" (i.e. unwise) things all the time, but he is less likely to realize that a "fun" idea is not a "good" idea. And he'll either be too trusting or too quick to distrust, depending on whether he likes somebody or not. He isn't good at reading people, unless he really works at it by pumping Sense Motive.


Hope that helps paint a rough picture. I wouldn't Flanderize these stats. Just...let him be a little obnoxious and abrasive. Let him be slow to make leaps of logic, and dislike things that require heavy thought. Let him be easily fooled and fixated on things he wants.

Like the way Patrick Star was before he was written to be dumber in the later seasons, then!

[Segev]

Like the way Patrick Star was before he was written to be dumber in the later seasons, then!

I couldn't say. What I've seen of him may only be from later seasons. But what I've seen of him is a Flanderization of this. Probably closer to flat 3s.

[Particle_Man]

Homer Simpson comes to mind.

[Tuvarkz]

Homer Simpson comes to mind.

I'd say Homer has at least 12-14 Charisma, from minor bluffing to half-decent socialization.

I'd strongly suggest against dropping Wis into the negatives, particularly since you can get your Will save to half-decent levels later on via AWT.
Also, what's the point buy? Even with 15 PB, 16+2 STR 14 DEX 14 CON 7 INT 13 WIS 7 CHA should be doable.

[Flickerdart]

I'd say Homer has at least 12-14 Charisma, from minor bluffing to half-decent socialization.
Yeah, Homer has rubbish INT and WIS but he can bluff and plead his way out of almost any trouble.

[CasualViking]

Yeah, Homer has rubbish INT and WIS but he can bluff and plead his way out of almost any trouble.

Then again, Cha 7, a skill point and a +1-and-class-skill trait would put him at +3.

[Troacctid]

I certainly wouldn't want to be a 7th level Wizard with only 7 Int.

[Coretron03]

I'd say Homer has at least 12-14 Charisma, from minor bluffing to half-decent socialization.

I'd strongly suggest against dropping Wis into the negatives, particularly since you can get your Will save to half-decent levels later on via AWT.
Also, what's the point buy? Even with 15 PB, 16+2 STR 14 DEX 14 CON 7 INT 13 WIS 7 CHA should be doable.

He is using 20 PB, currently enrolling in the same game as him.

[flappeercraft]

It would be that guy who is tolerable to some degree but not really your friend Cha wise, on Int probably a dumb person but not Spongebob stupid just regular stupid and on Wis he is that guy who has like no common sense or he has some but it usually gets the opposite purpose of what his common sense tries to achieve.

[theasl]

I'd say Homer has at least 12-14 Charisma, from minor bluffing to half-decent socialization.

I'd strongly suggest against dropping Wis into the negatives, particularly since you can get your Will save to half-decent levels later on via AWT.
Also, what's the point buy? Even with 15 PB, 16+2 STR 14 DEX 14 CON 7 INT 13 WIS 7 CHA should be doable.


He is using 20 PB, currently enrolling in the same game as him.

To clarify, a standard Pathfinder 20 point buy (which is pretty remarkably different from a 3.5 20 point buy for whatever reason).

[Tuvarkz]

To clarify, a standard Pathfinder 20 point buy (which is pretty remarkably different from a 3.5 20 point buy for whatever reason).

I was talking pathfinder PB as well. With 20 PB, there's very little reason to dump Wisdom as a fighter-just dumping Int and Cha provides for the better stat distribution, and that extra +1 attack/damage from 20 STR is just plain not worth a 3 point Will save drop tbh.

[Kyberwulf]

I would say, think of the stereotypical red neck person. Not the likeable kind either. Homer is way to likeable too. To have a 14. I would say a 16 at least.

[BWR]

Just play it as your least favorite political figure.

[Zhentarim]

Just play it as your least favorite political figure.

Oh... he has 3's in every stat

[Vinyadan]

The standard deviation for 3d6 (NPC score generation) is 3.0. The average standard deviation on IQ is 15. So your guy is the equivalent of someone with ~85 IQ points - a little dim, but perfectly capable of speaking and reading. He's just as smart or smarter than 16% of people!

That's smarter than Forrest Gump! (IQ 75)

[KillianHawkeye]

I am actually playing a Brawler in a Pathfinder game right now with 7's across his mental scores. It's amazingly fun!

Here are some things that I've been doing to roleplay my deficiency:
Always being blunt, honest, and direct. Take everything at face value.
Having no social skills besides Intimidate, but trying to use it to resolve most social situations.
When encountering something new or unexpected, asking other party members "Is this good, or bad?"
Take credit for something I was involved in but was actually accomplished by a more subtle party member (Example: A spellcaster puts the enemy I'm grappling to sleep. My response: "Wow, I am so good at choke holds, he's already unconscious!")
Waste time on simple pleasures at the inn while everyone else does important stuff around town.
In battle, never use any strategies other than "Grapple the Spellcaster" and "Run in and hit stuff" (but I still try to pick my targets in a reasonable way)
Generally be oblivious to anything that isn't obvious, including danger.
Capturing an enemy leader that everyone else is trying to kill, because for some reason I'd decided that we needed to interrogate him.
Accidentally blurt out something that the party was trying to keep secret, because the NPC was pressing the matter and I figured everyone else forgot.

I also voice the character with a cartoonishly bad foreign accent, and as if English was a second language (i.e., imperfect grammar or occasionally saying certain phrases incorrectly). This helps me to sound stupid even when I don't have anything stupid to say or do.