Maxing Handle Animal at First Level?

[Palanan]

What’s the highest modifier to Handle Animal possible at first level?

Any official material from 3.5 or Pathfinder is fine, human preferred but open to alternatives. Prefer to avoid shenanigans.

.

[Doctor Despair]

The WBL you should achieve before level 2 allows you to purchase the services of a wizard to cast Polymorph and a psion to cast Psychic Reformation.

1. Polymorph into a Dusk Giant
2. Open a can of worms (haha) and eat all of them, gaining some arbitrarily high HAD
3. Psychic Reformation all of your level 1 skill points into Handle Animal
4. Let the HD fade away, or drain them off
5. ???
6. Profit

Tl;Dr: as many as you can get. You can get 4 feats at level 1 with flaws, so take Open Minded four times for 20 more ranks in addition to all of your class skill ranks

[Segev]

Let's get the basics out of the way first:

+5 from stat
+4 from skill (ranks, class skill)
+3 from skill focus
+2 from a +2-to-two-skills feat that includes Handle Animal
+2 from masterwork tool
---------------------------
+16 total


Another +2 for each individual you can get to take 10 and help you with Aid Another.

[Coretron03]

In pathfinder you could takr the rich parents trait for extra gold and buy a item that gives a bonus to it, maybe spend your other traits on a +1 bonus.

[JustIgnoreMe]

You should look at Bubs the Commoner. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?127927-Making-Due-An-Optimisers-Challenge/page2

[Deophaun]

Let's get the basics out of the way first:

+5 from stat
+4 from skill (ranks, class skill)
+3 from skill focus
+2 from a +2-to-two-skills feat that includes Handle Animal
+2 from masterwork tool
---------------------------
+16 total


Another +2 for each individual you can get to take 10 and help you with Aid Another.
We can do better.

+5 from stat
+2 from skill
+3 from skill focus
+2 from Animal Affinity (+2-to-two-skills)
+1 from Uncivilized trait
+2 from animal trainer's kit (masterwork tool, A&EG)
+6 insight from Riding Bracers (Incarnate soulmeld)
-----------
+21

Edit: Killoren for +2 racial bonus (requires Flaw for Animal Affinity): +23

[Doctor Despair]

So are we just ignoring Dusk Giant shenanigans? I'd definitely agree if this is PO, but OP just asked for the highest modifier possible.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Doctor Despair
So are we just ignoring Dusk Giant shenanigans? I'd definitely agree if this is PO, but OP just asked for the highest modifier possible.

The OP posted this in a hurry while doing chores, and neglected to specify he’d prefer no shenanigans.

This is for a very practical build, humble even, with no polymorphing, giants or worms.


Originally Posted by Segev & Deophaun
+5 from stat

How are we getting a +5 bonus at first level?

[JustIgnoreMe]

Aging bonus to the relevant stat.

[Deophaun]

How are we getting a +5 bonus at first level?
18 base + Magic-blooded template.

[Doctor Despair]

Unseeley Fey for another free +2 bonus to cha

Bloodline levels increase the max skill cap for level 2 without raising ECL

Phrenic is +2LA for+4 cha
Draconic is +1 for +2cha

[Segev]

The OP posted this in a hurry while doing chores, and neglected to specify he’d prefer no shenanigans.

This is for a very practical build, humble even, with no polymorphing, giants or worms.



How are we getting a +5 bonus at first level?

I think he specified Pathfinder, so I was assuming 18 base +2 racial bonus (probably from human or elf).

[Coidzor]

How are we getting a +5 bonus at first level?

With an 18 and a +2 from race, a first level character can have 20 in an ability score. A Pathfinder Human can just put their +2 in the relevant ability score. In 3.5 it'd require selecting a non human race, or, as mentioned Magic-Blooded. Or both a non-human race and Magic-Blooded for even more.

The limitation is on assigning the 18 there *before* racial modifiers, since you can't roll more than an 18, point buy schemes rarely allow one to buy more than an 18.

If you're using a stat generation scheme that is more limited, you should probably edit that into your OP.

[Zanos]

So are we just ignoring Dusk Giant shenanigans? I'd definitely agree if this is PO, but OP just asked for the highest modifier possible.
Are you ignoring that 1 != 2?

[Doctor Despair]

Are you ignoring that 1 != 2?

What do you mean?

[GilesTheCleric]

What do you mean?

OP edited the OP to clarify no TO.

[Doctor Despair]

OP edited the OP to clarify no TO.

Yeah, but that was after both my original comment and the quoted comment. Not fair to snark me for trying to be helpful :smallfrown:

[Coidzor]

What do you mean?

I believe that's a way of typing out "does not equal."

[daremetoidareyo]

Let me check my unfinished cheat sheet:



Church of Cyric:
The worship of Cyric does not grant any spell-like or super- natural abilities by default, although the church knows of several rituals that grant permanent powers to the devout in exchange for personal and monetary sacrifices. A ritual typically takes several hours and requires the intervention of a cleric of Cyric of 9th level or higher.

The Ritual of Honest Pain: The recipient of this ritual gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy, and Handle Animal checks. The recipient’s lies cannot be detected as such by spells of lower than 5th level, and she can lie freely within the bounds of a zone of truth or similar spell. This supernatural ability functions automatically. The cost of this ritual is 2 points of Constitution, since the magical process causes great pain and trauma to the body. Restorative spells (such as restoration or greater restoration) do not reverse this Constitution loss.

FrostBurn: goad: If you are proficient with its use, the goad grants a +2 circumstance bonus on all Handle Animal checks made against animals of Huge size or larger.

Magic of incarnum. The Riding Bracers soul meld offers a +4 insight bonus to ride and handle animal checks when shaped. For each essencia invested, +2 insight bonus is added.

So that's another plus 6 if you replace the +2/+2 feat with riding bracers, +8 if you're azurin. Just got to pay your dues to the church of cyric...

So that puts us at +24.

[Doctor Despair]

I believe that's a way of typing out "does not equal."

I have to assume he either didn't see that the OP was edited after both my posts, or that he didn't know that OP refers to Original Post(er) and not just Overpowered since my statement would be confusing without that knowledge. In any event, it's immaterial now.

[Deophaun]

FrostBurn: goad: If you are proficient with its use, the goad grants a +2 circumstance bonus on all Handle Animal checks made against animals of Huge size or larger.

Magic of incarnum. The Riding Bracers soul meld offers a +4 insight bonus to ride and handle animal checks when shaped. For each essencia invested, +2 insight bonus is added.

So that's another plus 6 if you replace the +2/+2 feat with riding bracers, +8 if you're azurin.
Wait, how are you getting proficiency with the Goad? That should take Exotic Proficiency, which is better spent on Animal Affinity as that bonus isn't limited to huge creatures.

Although the Old Magic-Blooded Killoren Incarnate who worships Cyric can now get +26. Constitution is going to be terrible, though.

[Doctor Despair]

+4 from skill (ranks, class skill)
+2 racial bonus (whatever race)
+ 7 from charisma (18 + 2 (unseeley fey) + 2 (magic-blooded) + 2 age)
+1 from Uncivilized trait
+2 from masterwork tool
+ 2 ritual of honest pain
+3 from skill focus
+4 insight from Riding Bracers (this consumes a feat? I know very little about incarnum stuff, tbh -- if so, it's not compatible with the racial bonus without flaws)
___

I count 25, unless I've miscounted something.

Edit:

We can take Marshal at level 1 and motivate charisma, giving us another +7. Again, if my math is right, that puts us at 32, or 42 if we take 10. If we can take flaws for additional feats, we can take Animal Affinity as our third level 1 feat and have a consistent check of 44 to rear and train a 4HD magical beast in 14 months OR rear a 29 HD animal.

[Deophaun]

+4 from skill (ranks, class skill)
+2 racial bonus (whatever race)
+ 7 from charisma (18 + 2 (unseeley fey) + 2 (magic-blooded) + 2 age)
+1 from Uncivilized trait
+2 from masterwork tool
+ 2 ritual of honest pain
+3 from skill focus
+4 insight from Riding Bracers (this consumes a feat? I know very little about incarnum stuff, tbh -- if so, it's not compatible with the racial bonus without flaws)
___

I count 25, unless I've miscounted something.

+2 from ranks (Incarnate, not class skill)
+2 racial bonus (Killoren)
+7 Charisma (18+2 Unseelie Fey (I wasn't counting this)+2 (Magic-blooded)+2 age)
+1 Uncivilized trait
+2 Animal Trainers Kit
+2 Ritual of Honest Pain
+3 Skill Training (Feat)
+2 Animal Affinity (Feat+Flaw)
+6 Riding Bracers (Incarnate soulmeld, +4 insight +2 essentia)
---
+27

Now, if we go a Marshal instead
+4 from ranks (Marshal, class skill)
+2 Racial Bonus (Killoren)
+7 Charisma (18+2 Unseelie Fey+2 (Magic-blooded)+2 age)
+1 Uncivilized trait
+2 Animal Trainers Kit
+2 Ritual of Honest Pain
+4 Riding Bracers (Feat, Shape Soulmeld)
+3 Skill Focus (Feat + Flaw)
+2 Animal Affinity (Feat + Flaw)
+7 Motivate Charisma (Marshal Minor Aura)
----
+34 (+29 without flaws)

[Coidzor]

I have to assume he either didn't see that the OP was edited after both my posts, or that he didn't know that OP refers to Original Post(er) and not just Overpowered since my statement would be confusing without that knowledge. In any event, it's immaterial now.

Or the idea that gaining lots and lots of HD doesn't fit in with being level 1, since then you're taking advantage of a higher skill rank cap.

[Doctor Despair]

Or the idea that gaining lots and lots of HD doesn't fit in with being level 1, since then you're taking advantage of a higher skill rank cap.

I suppose so, but they are temporary HD that go away, and you retain the ranks at level 1, so it does leave you at level 1 with the ranks. It's not an elegant mechanism, but functionally you can do it without gaining XP for level 2, so it works for both TO to get high modifiers at level 1 and for early entry to PrCs. As I said, however, it definitely doesn't meet the new PO criteria, for which it seems 44 may be our best check, barring some splatbook shenanigans.

The only thing I could think of might be to take three bloodline levels before level 2 and retrain some skill points to net plus 3, but that's not doable with zero xp