favourite fighting style for a dipped rogue

[Camman1984]

for my swashbuckling rogue I have taken a dip 1 level of fighter for the extra weapons, armour shields and fighting style.

I took mariner as I wanted to go full pirate (with the swashbuckling archetype) however I am finding the limitations of not being able to use a shield tough. also the climb speed and swim speed is of very limited value. I can possibly change this fighting style, do you think it is worth changing?

my rogue is a run in, booming blade strike then dash back out kind of guy so my bonus actions are usually accounted for. I am even considering taking a defender for the extra AC, then using my shield. with medium armored mastery (which i plan on soon) I could have a real tank of a rogue.

[Yagyujubei]

for my swashbuckling rogue I have taken a dip 1 level of fighter for the extra weapons, armour shields and fighting style.

I took mariner as I wanted to go full pirate (with the swashbuckling archetype) however I am finding the limitations of not being able to use a shield tough. also the climb speed and swim speed is of very limited value. I can possibly change this fighting style, do you think it is worth changing?

my rogue is a run in, booming blade strike then dash back out kind of guy so my bonus actions are usually accounted for. I am even considering taking a defender for the extra AC, then using my shield. with medium armored mastery (which i plan on soon) I could have a real tank of a rogue.

MAM is a trap for rogue, just keep boosting dex and you'll end up with the same AC and all the other bonuses of high dex. Medium armor gets you 15+2 AC and studded leather gets you 12+5 and is much cheaper, lighter, and takes less time to don. plus you get the benefit of higher DEX saves, initiative, AB and dmg

as for fighting style dueling is the way to go if you want offensive power (you can wear a shield and still get the dmg bonus) and defence is good too but rogue is already tanky imho

[Camman1984]

do you potentially think the fighter dip was a waste then as, if I don't use medium armour, my only benefits are second wind, a fighting style of limited value and an extra weapon (i'd better go buy a scimitar) maybe as I move up I may take a couple more levels in fighter for surge and superiority to be a real expert swordsman style rogue

[Deleted]

for my swashbuckling rogue I have taken a dip 1 level of fighter for the extra weapons, armour shields and fighting style.

I took mariner as I wanted to go full pirate (with the swashbuckling archetype) however I am finding the limitations of not being able to use a shield tough. also the climb speed and swim speed is of very limited value. I can possibly change this fighting style, do you think it is worth changing?

my rogue is a run in, booming blade strike then dash back out kind of guy so my bonus actions are usually accounted for. I am even considering taking a defender for the extra AC, then using my shield. with medium armored mastery (which i plan on soon) I could have a real tank of a rogue.

What race are you?

If you go up against anything one size or more larger than you, you can use the "climb onto bigger creature" option. With that extra climb speed you should be able to get into the small of a dragon's back real quick.

[Camman1984]

I am a variant half moon elf that took booming blade as a racial cantrip.

climbing onto a dragon does sound pretty fun haha

[Camman1984]

I think I might just stay mariner, I picked it for flavour not for pure power and he seems to be doing alright with it. can just keep the shield for the +1 AC (I lose the +1 from mariner whilst using it). I can drop the shield or strap it to my back if I need the swim/climb speeds, but still benefit from half the AC bonus

am still torn between MAM and going light around though answer MAM will give me 15+3 and light caps out at 12+5, add the shield in and I am looking at 20 vs 19 so not a huge difference when I factor in things like uncanny dodge (which i didnt realise was now a straight half damage reaction :-o )

[djreynolds]

I'm currently running a swashbuckler/battlemaster. I use shield master and expertise in athletics. I plow someone over and roll with advantage. I never miss and score crits, and crit my sneak attack and maneuvers.

I use a short sword. I put out plenty of damage.

There is a thread about the Iron Scoundrel, it awesome.

And even though you get rakish audacity and sneak attack, shield bashing someone over with your high athletics score is easy and now you roll with advantage and you teammates do so as well.

So take expertise in athletics and use shield bash, with a 20 in strength you have +17 at level 17. With just an 8 in strength you have +11, same as a 17th level fighter with a 20 in strength

Also since you are a swashbuckler, fancy footwork allows you to disengage from the opponent you just attacked.

[Specter]

do you potentially think the fighter dip was a waste then as, if I don't use medium armour, my only benefits are second wind, a fighting style of limited value and an extra weapon (i'd better go buy a scimitar) maybe as I move up I may take a couple more levels in fighter for surge and superiority to be a real expert swordsman style rogue

Nope. You get a little extra HP, bonus healing for emergencies, +1AC and proficiency with all weapons. No more shortbow for you.

As a "Ultimate Duelist" build, you could easily go Swash 14/(Champion or BM) 6.

[Deleted]

I think I might just stay mariner, I picked it for flavour not for pure power and he seems to be doing alright with it. can just keep the shield for the +1 AC (I lose the +1 from mariner whilst using it). I can drop the shield or strap it to my back if I need the swim/climb speeds, but still benefit from half the AC bonus

am still torn between MAM and going light around though answer MAM will give me 15+3 and light caps out at 12+5, add the shield in and I am looking at 20 vs 19 so not a huge difference when I factor in things like uncanny dodge (which i didnt realise was now a straight half damage reaction :-o )

If you aren't getting it for the mechanics then just stay Rogue. You already have all the fluff you need, which fluff is changeable anyways, so I'm not sure why you would want to MC. Just stick with light armor and dex because you have Uncanny Dodge.

When you are hit, which probably won't be a lot as Rogue dart in and out, you can use your reaction each round to half that damage.

[Joe the Rat]

Another angle if you keep the dip and mariner: grab the dual wielding feat. The bigger weapons aren't a huge deal for you (rapier vs scimitar/shortsword), but the +1 AC for the off-hand weapon puts you at the same AC as grabbing a shield (you lose 1 AC from mariner, but gain 2 from shield), and can be done with your object interaction. My advice is Flynn it up - rapier + dagger, you can always throw the dagger at someone to free a hand for climbing... plus the option to try again for a sneak attack in a pinch.

Alternatively, grab defensive duelist for the +2-+6 AC against one attack when you need it.

[Camman1984]

I quote liked the fighter for the weapon variety and the shield. I want to be a excellent dualist able to pick up any weapon and still be able to be a dangerous foe, but favouring the light nimble weapons that I can dart in, cut your throat and get back out. I also wanted that mariner fighting style because being a better swimmer, or being able to get up and down the ropes fast made excellent sense for a pirate character. I think in my original post I had a moment of weakness towards optimisation and forgot why I designed the character the way I did.

and specter, that build of swash/bm looks excellent, I think I will head that way, stick with the light armour and dex though so I can keep moving and dodging with the best of them. a fully armoured swordsmen swinging from the ropes doesn't scream dashing pirate to me

[Yagyujubei]

yeah as others have said swashbuckler/battlemaster is a really solid build in any situation so the level in fighter wasnt wasted, at this point its just a question of how you want to split your levels between the two classes, if you're gonna go this route then depending upon how many fighter levels you take, you might wanna consider the feat that gives you extra supremacy die and maneuvers since between rogue and fighter levels you'll have tons of ASI/Feat options.

[CaptainSarathai]

For pure offense, and especially as a Swashbuckler, grab Two Weapon Fighter.

However, you took Booming Blade, so I'd have gone Duellist or Defense.

Taking 3 levels of Fighter and going either BatMaster or Knight (if they allow UA) is also really good.
Knight is basically free Sentinel (well, 3 level dip)
BatMaster could go to 6, get Tripping Strike, Goading Strike, and Riposte. You're gonna burn through SupDice, but it's sexy:
If they miss you, React and attack them. Add SA damage! Just like using Sentinel, but for you, not your allies.
When you've got Extra Attack, Tripping Strike is quick and easy Advantage to follow up with that sweet, sweet SA damage.
Goading Strike is great for a BB Rogue. You hit the enemy, force Disadvantage on striking anyone but you, and then Disengage. Now they are practically forced to move to you.

For me, I traded Tripping for Commander, actually. But that's because we have characters in the party who can lay on gobs of damage with just a single hit, so it's better for us all if I hit first and SA, then Commander my second attack and let them hit (and SA or Smite).

[djreynolds]

Question, does precision work with BB/GFB?

I ask because yes it is a weapon attack, but it is not apart of the attack action... rather casting a spell, "a spell action."

If it does, and I'm almost sure it does, then this will turn most misses into hits. Though I like trip/push, with expertise in strength and shield master, I think this is better in melee and you can take stuff like menacing, goading, riposte, and precision



So 3 to 6 levels of BM is awesome

Also I know 15 rogue, in a multiclass in more like level 20, so waiting on slippery mind may not be worth it and by taking 6 fighter you can squeeze out another feat.

Also, its crazy, but I would begin as fighter as evasion through 7th level feature or shield master and your more than likely 20 in dex means... most saves you will take half-damage and you can now have con save proficiency and grab wisdom saves with resilient wisdom or slippery mind

But I love swashbuckler/battlemaster, can go either dex or strength route.

MAM is hit or miss, yes you can stealth with half plate and the AC equals plate armor AC18, where as just breast plate and dex equals chainmail, AC16. You will find uncanny dodge will make up for the loss HP when you get hit by halving that loss, and instead of MAM you can grab lucky and turn a possible crit into a miss, 3xs a day and still have your reaction for uncanny dodge.

Also remember, IMO, most advice is based off of AL play and the use standard array and 27 point buy in, if you roll all 18s, then yeah take MAM and then take lucky.

12 rogue/8 fighter will net you 7 ASI.

Good luck, I love rogue/fighters

[Arkhios]

In my completely honest opinion, shield doesn't really fit into the picture of a swashbuckling pirate. Two weapons, however, do.

Even if you were mostly using BB, you could benefit from taking Dual Wielder feat for the added AC with a second weapon in your off-hand, plus you could draw and sheath both of your weapons at the same time, which would be mandatory for climbing (how do you climb with only one hand free? I'd imagine not very well.)

djreynolds, if by precision you mean Sneak Attack, then yes. Sneak Attack works with BB.

[djreynolds]

In my completely honest opinion, shield doesn't really fit into the picture of a swashbuckling pirate. Two weapons, however, do.

Even if you were mostly using BB, you could benefit from taking Dual Wielder feat for the added AC with a second weapon in your off-hand, plus you could draw and sheath both of your weapons at the same time, which would be mandatory for climbing (how do you climb with only one hand free? I'd imagine not very well.)

djreynolds, if by precision you mean Sneak Attack, then yes. Sneak Attack works with BB.

I was wondering do the BM maneuvers, and precision and such, do they work with BB/GFB since these are spell attacks but use melee weapon attacks.

I ask because if you use say BB/GFB you do not get an off-hand attack say for a TWF

So can the maneuvers be used with these as well. Say disarming strike says.... "with a weapon attack" and BB/GFB say you must make "a melee attack with a weapon"

We allow it our table cause it seems you can... but you know a lawyer would hang himself rather than defend these rules

[Joe the Rat]

[attack with a melee weapon] is a subset of [melee weapon attack]. Since making the attack is part of the spell, maneuvers can be applied to the attack.

It's the same reason sneak attack can apply. Or smites can be made.

[djreynolds]

[attack with a melee weapon] is a subset of [melee weapon attack]. Since making the attack is part of the spell, maneuvers can be applied to the attack.

It's the same reason sneak attack can apply. Or smites can be made.

Thank you.