Advice

[rollfrenzy]

Ok so I am a pretty experienced Roleplayer (10+ years). I have a decent grasp of the rules, but due to other concerns, never really bought any of the books.

I have a lot of ideas and want to Dm but I get overwhelmed by the amount of information, rules, PrC, classes, races, etc. and also a little put off by the power of pc's once they reach a certain level. I have access to the books now, but nowhere near the time to read them.

My group is made up of similarly experienced Roleplayers who have a better grasp on the billion different flavors of class/race combos, etc. They have no desire to play in a core only game or in a different system, and I don't feel prepared to run a non-core game, especially after say, level 5 or so.

Is there any good advice out there to help me take in and assimilate all the options, or should I just suck it up and read the splat books one at a time, and put off running the game till I have the time and energy to research forty different books.

[Wraithy]

what sort of character do you think you can have fun with: a skill monkey, a blaster, a meat shield, the tank, etc.
you can build up quite easily from there

[rollfrenzy]

Nah, i must've been unclear. I don't have issue playing, I want to DM and am unprepared and underknowledged about all the 50+ core classes and scores of books with alternate rules and such, and feel overwhlemed when I try to think about taking the Dm reigns.

[Iku Rex]

Use a pre-made adventure and insist that the players know the rules needed to run their own characters. The mounted paladin has to know the mounted combat rules, the sorcerer has to know how his spells work, the rogue must know when he gets sneak attack etc.

[Griffin131]

I'm new to the board, but I've heard this same question many times.

I wouldnt be afraid of DMing something without knowledge of all the books. Start a campaign, and just say that any information not core that the players plan on using has to be reviewed by you. That will ease you into the newer books, but not dump everything on you at once. As long as your players are open with thier intentions, everything will be fine. Always reserve the right to change a decision if it looks like itll be unbalancing to the campaign after youve already approved it.

[Counterspin]

I'd give them a free hand and only worry about the specifics if something gets out of hand. There's no reason for you to have to read the whole world of books. Alternatively you can ask them to make characters and then have a look at the material they're using so you can check for issues(have them reference a book and page number for all their stuff to make your life easier). Make it clear to the group that if they want free reign, you reserve the right to step in and re balance things.

[Zherog]

Read only what you have to. That is, if a player tells you he's interested in Prestige Class X, read that class. If another tells you she wants Feats A and B, read those feats.

Make it clear that nothing outside core is allowed on a character sheet until you've reviewed it and given your stamp of approval.

In between reading the things you have to read (because a player wants it), read the other stuff and begin to formulate ideas for NPCs, monsters, etc.

[AKA_Bait]

I agree with ^. If you have been playing with these folks a while I presume that you can trust them to understand and faithfully apply the mechanics and rules that would govern their characters.

Using a premade adventure is probably also a good idea. There are a few pretty good free ones on the wizards site if you don't want to shell out. Also, if they are ok with some restrictions you might just want to try a specific campagin setting like FR or Erberron. Just say core and those books and require approval of stuff from outside those sources. That way you don't need to worry about a deluge of info you won't be able to easily pick up.

[mudbunny]

You have, as I see it, two options.

The first is to tell them to police themselves. That involves them ensuring that no cheese/broken feat combos are provided. They need to provide you with copies of all the feats/classes/prestige Classes/races/spells/weapons/etc that they use, and explain them to you so that you understand how they work. You also need to warn them that if you find them using combos that end all fights in one round, with no danger to the party, that there are a lot of rocks/mountains/floating castles that could fall on them, killing them instantly.

The second is to tell them "Too bad, so sad. I am the DM, I am inexperienced, and I want to get a decent command of the basic rules before I start any optional rules.

[rollfrenzy]

I will try those things, but I don't have time to research every aspect of four different characters. policing themselves is ok, but I should know what they can do.

My problem is also, that I don't have a lot of time. Which is ok when I run other games liek CoC, I just make stuff up on the fly, but with dnd especially at higher levels, it gets hard to do without planning.

Another issue is after levels 5-10, the Pcs are so powerful that it takes a better knowledge of things than I have to present a challenge.

Should've spent those years learning the rules instead of having fun.

[Wraithy]

this might not make sense at the moment: NEVER let ANYONE EVER use a fullblade!

[ALOR]

this might not make sense at the moment: NEVER let ANYONE EVER use a fullblade!

God knows i wish someone would have givin me this warning. Listen to Wraithy, save you it can.

[cupkeyk]

Our dm never needs to micromanage us. We basically plot out our twenty levels and type down any classes, PRC's, spells, feats, skill tricks (with annotations from which books they are from) that we will be taking in the future and we print them out for him to read at his liesure and future reference. Spells and maneuvers are set on index cards for manageability of duration and availability.

Ask your players for help is my first advice and only advice.

[cupkeyk]

this might not make sense at the moment: NEVER let ANYONE EVER use a fullblade!

weapon damage and weapon damage type do not matter. Weapon abilities, a little. not very.

A falchion is still better than a fullblade.

[Iku Rex]

I will try those things, but I don't have time to research every aspect of four different characters. policing themselves is ok, but I should know what they can do. Why? Let them surprise you. Just watching the PC in action should give you enough knowledge to allow an NPC or monster with special knowledge about the PCs abilities to gain an advantage.


Another issue is after levels 5-10, the Pcs are so powerful that it takes a better knowledge of things than I have to present a challenge. Is this based on experience? Most adventures have encounters capable of hurting appropriate level PCs if the DM plays the monsters smart and doesn't pull his punches. If you really want to challenge the players you can just run an adventure intended for higher level PCs.

[JackMage666]

What's the big deal with a Fullblade?

Anyway, my suggestion is just make the game Core-only. Only allow Core items, classes, the limited PrCs in the DMG, spells, and so on.
This doesn't really apply to you, though. You can give them rare exotic items that you make, or introduce monsters that you either make or take from the MM series (MM2-MM5, Fiend Folio).
This seemed to work for my friend, anyway. Limits the scope of what a character can be, but a creative character can still present any concept with the PHB classes.

[Pronounceable]

Why do you think you HAVE to know all the rules in all the books? The single important rule is Rule 0, the rest is just background. Enforce it, it is your friend. DnD tends to get in the way of imagination with all those rules anyway. Houserule it all is what I'd say.

If you're overly concerned about PC power, don't level them up. Wait until you think you can handle it. Don't give them XP, but level them in an appropriate point in the campaign until level 6 or so.

I'd advise to not allow anything you don't know into the game, but that has been done.

[Wraithy]

What's the big deal with a Fullblade?


it is technically defined as an ogre bastard sword, but anyone with a sane mind calls it an abomination. its suposedly 7ft6 long, weighs something like 25lb, does 2d8 damage, and is possible proof that god does not exist.

[Saph]

My group is made up of similarly experienced Roleplayers who have a better grasp on the billion different flavors of class/race combos, etc. They have no desire to play in a core only game or in a different system, and I don't feel prepared to run a non-core game, especially after say, level 5 or so.

Is there any good advice out there to help me take in and assimilate all the options, or should I just suck it up and read the splat books one at a time, and put off running the game till I have the time and energy to research forty different books.

A few options:

1) Get someone else to DM. There's a reason that the DM of a group is usually the most experienced/knowledgeable player . . . it makes a lot of things easier.

2) Read all the books yourself. Not recommended, as if you enjoyed this sort of thing you would have done it already.

3) Zherog's suggestion: Only allow anything outside of core once it's been looked over and approved. Probably the best compromise.

4) Start at low levels, say 1-3. This gives you plenty of time to get used to what the characters can do, and you'll end up learning most of the rules you need on the fly.

5) Fudge things. Don't bother trying to police or monitor what the PCs do, just scale up everything they face, combat or noncombat, until it's a reasonable challenge for them. Don't bother doing it legally, just add more plusses until the numbers look the right size.

There are lots of other ways to deal with it, too. Can't say what'd work best.

- Saph

[mostlyharmful]

It may be off topic but I find it REALLY helpful to remember that the nick names for character types have really meaning. That any PC you get handed to you will fall into one of a broad range of "archetypes" and that I can then deal with these archtypes not the whole complexity of Players that have olts of time ofn their hand s to try to outgun me.

Break down the players into Meatshield, skill-monkey, heal-bot, batman, blaster and diplomancer. after that you get a framework to plan around and the characters actually get an oppertunity to let the planning they put in to mean something, once you get the general idea of what they can do you can plan for them and it's up to them to fill in the specifics.

and always remember that when in doubt you are always right, even when you're desperately making things up on the fly.

[Ceridan]

Wahahahahahahaha

My Gestalt wizard 10 initiate of the seven fold veil 10/warblade15 master of nine5, fullblade weilding, vampiric rakshasa half-dragon has come to destroy your will to DM, and the multi-verse as we know it.:smallbiggrin:

Wahahahahahahaha

But realy, listen to Saph.:smallwink:

[Arbitrarity]

Initiate of the sevenfold veil can be entered at level 9, and only has SEVEN levels.

:smallbiggrin:

[Roog]

Is there any good advice out there to help me take in and assimilate all the options, or should I just suck it up and read the splat books one at a time, and put off running the game till I have the time and energy to research forty different books.

Talk to the players about the situation. If they know that you don't want to have to deal with too many new source books at a time, they may be more than willing to limit the number of different sources they use. So effectively, the players choose a smallish number of books beyond core to start the game with.

Use the first session for character creation etc only.

Then you have plenty of time to look at the relevant books, before anything become a problem. (Unless the players each use large numbers of books)

Get the players to explain their characters mechanically to you, so you know where everything is coming from.

[Anxe]

You could just ask one of these rule-freaks to be the DM instead of you.

[nerulean]

DM a free game, let them use whatever they like from whatever books they like. Have each player tell you, clearly and precisely, what their character is designed to do, and make sure they know that if they fib or skirt over important details, rocks will fall.

If you don't want to spend an actual session genning chars and look over the rules for everything as they make their choices, then have them roll them up a week or two in advance so you can check anything that looks iffy. Don't forget, you've got an amazing resource that can point out the cheese inherent in pretty much anything if you're having trouble: it's called the forum.

[Ceridan]

Initiate of the sevenfold veil can be entered at level 9, and only has SEVEN levels.

:smallbiggrin:

Yes, yes. lets try that again. Sorcerer 2 Initiate of the Seven fold Veil 7 archmage 4. Rakshasa's cast as a level 7 sorcerer with-out levels in the class anyway.:smallwink:

[evisiron]

For my campaign I made it (at least to start) that every player got to use 1 source book aside from PHB.

This way they could take something different (Like a specific prestige class OR something from Savage Species, but not both.), but cut down on the rules reading. It worked well, as most of the players had a bunch of books I did not, but I ended up only looking at about 5 book entries.

Also, i good idea is to look on the wizards of the coast site for the class. Most of them have a little Pros/Cons thing which does not give out stats, but gives the info a DM is likely to want.

Hope that helps.

[cupkeyk]

it is technically defined as an ogre bastard sword, but anyone with a sane mind calls it an abomination. its suposedly 7ft6 long, weighs something like 25lb, does 2d8 damage, and is possible proof that god does not exist.


that doesn't answer the question, what's the big deal about it? It still sorta sucks as a choice for an exotic wepon.

BTW, we know what a full blade is. -_-

[Wraithy]

if you really want to ask about fullblades, start a thread about it called "fullblade" or something to that effect. untill then:
*casts defenstrating sphere and runs into it*

[PlatinumJester]

Fullblades are kick arse.