Vermin as an animal companion?

[EndocrineBandit]

Without delving too far into prestige classes, well, really, I suppose prestiging is fine.. What are RAW legal ways to get vermin as an animal companion? Something about a halfling riding on a giant praying mantis just seems really entertaining to me.

[Rizban]

Easiest way I can think of is the Vermin companion feat from Eberron Campaign Setting. It even specifically gives you a giant mantis as an option at druid level 4.

[eggynack]

Obvious method is vermin companion (ECS, 62). Other good option is this vermin companion thing (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040705a). Latter doesn't cost you feats, but you might not mind the child of winter thing if you're going all in on vermin. If I'm reading these options right though, and especially if the web article version doesn't lose you animal companions, the web version might just be strictly superior.

Edit: Just checked more specifically. The web version might be better in general, but it's worse for giant praying mantises in the specific sense, so you may be better off with the feat if that's the heart of your desires. The vermin companion list in ECS is kinda anemic otherwise though.

[ShurikVch]

One more variant is to buy Warbeast Giant Praying Mantis and enter into Windrider PrC (Masters of the Wild)

[EndocrineBandit]

That's absolutely wonderful. Thank you for your advice, and such timely responses! I think the child of winter/vermin companion might be a better bet for what I'm going for. Even moreso if I go the Warbeast Giant Praying Mantis then go into windrider. Treating vermin as animals seems most useful for the build, being able to train them and such. And suddenly enlarge animal and things like that work on the vermin? I'm down. Hmmm.

[Pugwampy]

I see no problem with any kind of animal companion for a druid as long as its on par with the level .

Someone in my group who wanted to be a Tengu druid wanted a chameleon companion for insurance in case he was locked in a cell and needed a small pet to tongue grab the key

[EndocrineBandit]

Pug, The problem with that is RAW states vermin have no intelligence, mind effects and attempting to be diplomatic with them automatically fail and you can't train them. I was looking for RAW ways to circumvent that. Having a chameleon as an animal companion is pretty legit as far as Rules As Written go. It's a standard lizard with camouflage.

[Vizzerdrix]

Watchspiders are on the druid -3 list and are medium size. Also magical beasts so you get the best of all 3 worlds there.

[EndocrineBandit]

I've never heard of a watchspider. Where are they from? I did a google search and came up with nil aside from Monstrous Spiders


(Edit) Scratch that, Vizz. I found one of your posts on minmaxboards. Doing some reading into that. Thanks for the tip!

[Stealth Marmot]

This is my pet Gargantuan Giant Spider.

I named him "Nope".

Everyone seems to know his name.

[Psyren]

This is my pet Gargantuan Giant Spider.

I named him "Nope".

Everyone seems to know his name.

They seem to like him too! Even the king kept repeating his name over and over when we went to see him.

[Doctor Despair]

I know you mentioned not wanting PrCs, but it's just too topical not to mention the Verminlord PRC :p

[EndocrineBandit]

I was thinking verminlord would be kinda fun. But I think that'll be a character for another day.


Also, On the note of 'Nope, the Gargantuan Giant Spider'.. You, I like you. Was something similar to what I am going for with this guy, except on a Giant Praying Mantis. I was gonna name it "Uh'gawd"

[ShurikVch]

I know you mentioned not wanting PrCs, but it's just too topical not to mention the Verminlord PRC :pThen Vermin Keeper from Underdark also worth mentioning

[Remuko]

I played a Pixie Druid with a large monstrous spider animal companion from that Wizards article someone linked. It was really fun. Passing down some magical items to it from the rest of the party made it quite useful in combat. Being able to climb walls and ceilings made it easy for the spider to get in position to flank things for us. Teaching it to attack undead and constructs was a chore but worth.

[Buufreak]

I was thinking verminlord would be kinda fun. But I think that'll be a character for another day.


Also, On the note of 'Nope, the Gargantuan Giant Spider'.. You, I like you. Was something similar to what I am going for with this guy, except on a Giant Praying Mantis. I was gonna name it "Uh'gawd"

A word of cation on Verminlord: because hiveminds are written a bit poorly and weren't ever updated to 3.5, they can be as broken as you want them to be with the rules given. For example, AvatarVecna has a build he calls Khepri which is lightyears beyond any build I could make on my best day, which utilizes hivemind shenanigans.

[EndocrineBandit]

No worries about game-breaking shenanigans. It makes the game no fun for myself or the other players. I have to consciously keep in mind potential to break the game when I build characters or make concepts for things. My DM appreciates that effort, too. A lockdown-dusk blade was pretty fun.

Aside from that, I'm trying to avoid PrC's to get the vermin companion. I was thinking of making it my mount and going into a mounted-based PrC.

[Doctor Despair]

Can you get some sort of giant monstrous bumble bee? Have the bard play flight of the bumblebees as you divebomb enemies repeatedly?

[tedcahill2]

Without delving too far into prestige classes, well, really, I suppose prestiging is fine.. What are RAW legal ways to get vermin as an animal companion? Something about a halfling riding on a giant praying mantis just seems really entertaining to me.

Just take the vermin lord PrC. Isn't that exactly what it's for?

[mabriss lethe]

The vermin trainer feat from Drow of the Underdark might also be mentioned. It's got some severe limitations, (One of which being drow only) and getting it at level 1 is somewhat tricky since its skill requirements don't mesh with most classes. But,you know, for the sake of completeness and all.

[GilesTheCleric]

The vermin trainer feat from Drow of the Underdark might also be mentioned. It's got some severe limitations, (One of which being drow only) and getting it at level 1 is somewhat tricky since its skill requirements don't mesh with most classes. But,you know, for the sake of completeness and all.

I think I have an NPC build with that feat. I'll see how it works when I'm home. Iirc, it uses a monstrous spider up until level six or so when it switches to zhentarim sky Lord. It's an ubermount build.

Edit: At level 1, the NPC is a Paladin of Tyranny, granting the correct class skills. Looks like I bought off the Drow LA, though there's also the Lesser Drow in PGtF 191 you could use instead.

[mabriss lethe]

I think I have an NPC build with that feat. I'll see how it works when I'm home. Iirc, it uses a monstrous spider up until level six or so when it switches to zhentarim sky Lord. It's an ubermount build.

Edit: At level 1, the NPC is a Paladin of Tyranny, granting the correct class skills. Looks like I bought off the Drow LA, though there's also the Lesser Drow in PGtF 191 you could use instead.

The build I played with used Deepwyrm Half-drow Marshal as the base, using draconic aura substitution and/or feats, since marshal auras wouldn't work on the vermin, but draconic auras would. (I also contemplated utilizing truename utterances to buff the vermin since they generally have such a low CR compared to their HD, but never got past the "that would be kinda neat" stage)

[eggynack]

Can you get some sort of giant monstrous bumble bee? Have the bard play flight of the bumblebees as you divebomb enemies repeatedly?
Both vermin companion methods I mentioned offer giant bee as a first level companion. Medium sized, so not that hard to ride.

[Rizban]

If you're going with drow, I second the use of deepwyrm half-drow. They're fantastic at +0 LA, and if you take the Drow Legacy feat, you're not missing out on much of anything you'd get with a drow.

[EndocrineBandit]

Hmmm.. Even more great ideas. I've certainly got some things to ponder. Probably ideas for a couple of characters. A desert wanderer with a pet scorpion, turn it into a walker of the wastes. The telepathic halflings on praying mantis and giant wasps. I love this place. Thank you all.