Help Me Pick a Tactical Class (PF)

[Sacrosanct]

So my group is doing Pathfinder (no third party), and I'm once again faced with the impossible task of picking a class. I'm not new to Pathfinder (maybe a little rusty), but my previous games were mostly core-only. Now, as I look through the SRD, the sheer number of classes and archetypes is a bit overwhelming.

I'm hoping you can help me out. Here's what I'm looking for:

- Some of the group is new to Pathfinder, and while we're quite fond of combat, we don't do much optimizing. So, I'm not necessarily looking for the best class, though I certainly want to contribute.
- I have a strong preference for melee combatants (woo, swords!), but I'm open to hearing other options. Similarly, I expect the game to be urban-based, but I'd love to hear alternatives for future games.
- By the ol' gamer types list, I'm a Tactician/Storyteller (this is what happens when your first games are 3.5 and nWoD). I want options - not in the sense of having different ways to develop the class, but in having different ways to develop the fight. If we're spending twenty minutes planning a fight, or if I'm paralyzed by indecision on the battlefield, I'm happy.
- I'm not fond of classes that rely on summoning or pets - if something on my sheet does something, I'd much prefer my character did it.

It probably comes as no surprise that I love gish. So at the moment, I'm looking at:

- Paladin (with some archetype to remove the mount)
- Cavalier (ditto)
- Magus
- Cleric (though I've concerns about simply becoming the healbot)

Any other suggestions? Or suggestions on archetypes? Prestige classes?

[Castilonium]

Prepared 9th level spellcasters are the most versatile and tactical classes in the game, since they can change their entire loadout with a night's rest. Spontaneous spellcasters and classes that get static bonus feats, like fighters, can't.

Cleric will be your best bet. You'd also probably enjoy Magus, Alchemist (Beastmorph + Vivisectionist), Investigator, Occultist, Medium, or Warpriest. If you're fine with not having spellcasting, try Brawler, as it lets you learn whatever combat feat you want to fit the situation. If Cleric looks attractive to you because of its self-buffing abilities for melee, pick Warpriest instead, and you can be reasonably sure nobody will demand you act as a healbot.

[CasualViking]

So my group is doing Pathfinder (no third party), and I'm once again faced with the impossible task of picking a class. I'm not new to Pathfinder (maybe a little rusty), but my previous games were mostly core-only. Now, as I look through the SRD, the sheer number of classes and archetypes is a bit overwhelming.

I'm hoping you can help me out. Here's what I'm looking for:

- Some of the group is new to Pathfinder, and while we're quite fond of combat, we don't do much optimizing. So, I'm not necessarily looking for the best class, though I certainly want to contribute.
- I have a strong preference for melee combatants (woo, swords!), but I'm open to hearing other options. Similarly, I expect the game to be urban-based, but I'd love to hear alternatives for future games.
- By the ol' gamer types list, I'm a Tactician/Storyteller (this is what happens when your first games are 3.5 and nWoD). I want options - not in the sense of having different ways to develop the class, but in having different ways to develop the fight. If we're spending twenty minutes planning a fight, or if I'm paralyzed by indecision on the battlefield, I'm happy.
- I'm not fond of classes that rely on summoning or pets - if something on my sheet does something, I'd much prefer my character did it.

It probably comes as no surprise that I love gish. So at the moment, I'm looking at:

- Paladin (with some archetype to remove the mount)
- Cavalier (ditto)
- Magus
- Cleric (though I've concerns about simply becoming the healbot)

Any other suggestions? Or suggestions on archetypes? Prestige classes?

Of those classes, Magus (and cleric) have the best in-combat versatility. Most archetypes are fine, only the Skirnir and Spellblade lack the core competencies of the class. Don't fiddle about with the perfect Dex build, just go Strength. Don't specialize in any particular spell, remember that Spell Combat can be used with defensive spells or AoE spells just fine.

Instead of Cleric, maybe consider Warpriest; the Fervor ability lets you smash-and-cast.

[Psyren]

Just wanted to point out that for Paladin, you don't need an archetype to remove the mount - you can simply choose for your divine bond to be with your weapon instead, which causes it to scale with you, right in core.

Having said that, Magus is definitely the stronger option mechanically; they can outperform a Paladin's burst against a wider variety of foes, and their spell list gives them a lot of utility. (The paladin has more healing/decursing potential though.)

[Grod_The_Giant]

I'm a big fan of Alchemists and Investigators; they both get wide swathes of options and interesting magic.

[Geddy2112]

If Cleric looks attractive to you because of its self-buffing abilities for melee, pick Warpriest instead, and you can be reasonably sure nobody will demand you act as a healbot.

In addition, you can always channel negative energy instead of positive and you won't be a healbot at all, unless everyone in your party is undead.

[Kurald Galain]

Magus guide, at your service (www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?423754-Myrrh-Frankincense-and-Steel-Kurald-Galain-s-Guide-to-the-Magus&). :smallcool:

[Blyte]

Brawler is a good tactical option.

Start by picking all the typical martial pre-req feats (power attack, combat expertise...) then you can martial flexibility the best style/combat maneuver feats to fit the tactical situation.

[Teulisch]

I would suggest a dwarf Druid. even with the standard 15 pt buy you can get a very nice set of stats, you get good AC from hide+shield, and as a dwarf you can use a hammer or axe. you also get an animal companion, and at 4th you can wildshape. +2 to con and wis, -2 cha as a dumpstat. you want a wisdom of 13+ minimum (and rely on +wis gear at high levels), preferably 15+. with bonuses to str, dex, and con, you can be a good melee combatant.

[Serafina]

I'd like to recommend the Psychic Detective (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/investigator/archetypes/paizo---investigator-archetypes/psychic-detective-investigator-archetype) Investigator (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/investigator) with the Kinetic Enhancement (http://archivesofnethys.com/PsiTechDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Kinetic%20Enhancement ) Psi-Tech Phrenic Amplification and the Dirty Fighting (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dirty-fighting-combat), Agile Maneuver (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/agile-maneuvers-combat) and Combat Stamina (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/stamina-and-combat-tricks-optional-rules) (if necessary) feats.

The combination of the attack-bonus from studied combat, and adding both your Dexterity- and Intelligence bonus to your Combat Maneuver Bonus, not provoking any attacks of opportunity when you perform a combat maneuver against a flanked enemy, and being able to count as a larger size for them, allows you to use basically any combat maneuver you want. Whether it's tripping, disarming, dirty trick, reposition or steal - you're competent at it.

The Investigator is also a spellcaster - in your case, you cast from the psychic list, which has a nice mix of buffs, debuffs and divinations. Studied Combat is also pretty good for dealing damage, especially if you go for two-weapon fighting. In addition, you get to be highly competent at skills.

Basically, you get to do the following each round
- choose whether to cast a spell, and if so which one. Since you're a spontaneous caster, you have a lot of ad-hoc options
- choose whether to just deal straight damage
- choose whether it'd be tactically better if you instead hinder the enemy with a combat maneuver.
- pay attention to positioning, since the combat maneuvers only really work if you are flanking. if you aren't, spells and damage are still options


For later optimization, I recommend some of the following:
- a weapon with the Dueling (http://archivesofnethys.com/MagicWeaponsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Dueling%20(PSFG) ) quality from the Pathfinder Society Field Guide, if that's permitted. It grants a good bonus to all combat maneuvers that can be performed with a weapon, instead of just a specific ones. Alternatively, you might use a Brawling (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/brawling) weapon.
- if you want to go more for combat rather than skills, then combining the Combat Inspiration (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/investigator/investigator-talents/paizo---investigator-talents/combat-inspiration) talent with an Inspiring (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/inspired) weapon is a great idea. Granted, the latter "only" grants extra damage, but the former also helps with landing combat maneuvers
- two-weapon fighting works great for you, since studied combat grants a straight damage bonus to all attacks
- just being able to use inspiration freely on more skills is also pretty great
- for advice on the Investigator, see here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1US1RDLezrR7C7bTjm_7Q9cta6bYi_slsE6zc1ndf7eg/edit).
- for advice on spells from the Psychic (https://docs.google.com/document/d/19ucZQWoJVw02H_7uyEeGrex4A-MgVRzfz1f-yUjG9uQ/edit) list, see here.
- a single-level dip into Inspired Blade (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/swashbuckler/archetypes/paizo---swashbuckler-archetypes/inspired-blade) Swashbuckler is a good idea if you want to focus on using a Rapier. It provides free Weapon Finesse, and both Dodging Panache and Opportune Parry and Riposte are great defensive options (though the former is probably better for you, with your lower BAB).
- using disable device on magical traps is available in a single trait (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/campaign-traits/mummy-s-mask/trap-finder), though it's a campaign trait and might not be permitted (though really, nothing in particular ties it to any flavor or background).


In my opinion, this is a highly versatile "intelligent fighter" kind of character which starts to shine at level 4, but also scales well into the later game.
Finally, do note that Combat Stamina is technically alternate rules from Pathfinder Unchained. Some GMs will not permit it at all, others will require you to take the feat, others will just grant it for free to everyone or just to certain classes. Also, some GMs might not allow you to take psi-tech discoveries, even though there's no real reason not to.

[claudekennilol]

I guess it depends. From your list, it looks like you want melee. The constable archetype for the cavalier trades away the mount and can do some interesting things. I suggest looking into the fighter, drill sergeant archetype as I think it does better at tactician than a cavalier does. Throw in some Advanced Weapon Training options (Fighter's Tactics pairs exceedingly well with drill sergeant) and you've got a very competent fighter.

If you want a skill monkey, you'll not find a better one than an Investigator with the Empiricist archetype and the Student of Philosophy trait.

[Der_DWSage]

Looking at all this...I guess I have to ask the eternal question. How about a strength-based Bard? You're clearly wanting a melee combatant, and while they're not quite as good at that as a Magus, they're certainly competent without being straightjacketed into 'Shocking Grasp-But With Metamagic!' for the 180th time. (Yes, I know they're able to do more than that, but still.)

Bard gives you the best of all worlds-contribute via stabbing, casting, or skilling, while also making your (newer) party members times to shine by buffing them to the gills.

[Sacrosanct]

I'm sorry it took me so long to say this, but thank you, everyone! This is a lot to consider.

[EldritchWeaver]

A little late, but if you don't want to have a mount, but instead be the "mount", then a centaur-like race would provide mounted combat options. Unfortunately, this leaves 1PP and ventures into 3PP, although only for the race and mount features, so this might be stomachable for your GM. Bloodforge (https://www.opengamingstore.com/products/bloodforge) contains the decataur, a medium-sized centaur, and The Genius Guide to Races of Hoof and Horn (https://www.opengamingstore.com/products/the-genius-guide-to-races-of-hoof-and-horn) contains the lapith, which are bipedal medium-sized, but capable to shapeshift into a large-size centaur. The latter product also contains the Centurian Combat feat, which counts as Mounted Combat for prereqs, and can be easily allowed for a decataur as well.