barbarian/fighter build

[maxwell_wolfen]

i need help in optimizing a fighter/ barbarian build as a melee GOD

we are starting a new campaign at level 1 and i want to build a great optimized melee build.
i want to plan a fighter/barb so what do you recommend? should i go full fighter or full barb? or make a multiclass between fighter and barb?
as of now i am between a fighter till 15 lvls then 5 lvls barb, or a full barb with 2 or 3 fighter dip lvls


all opinions welcome

[bid]

How far will you go?
Will you mostly have your fun between 5-10 or will you reach level 20 and keep playing?

I would rush extra attack before MC.

[ChubbyRain]

i need help in optimizing a fighter/ barbarian build as a melee GOD

we are starting a new campaign at level 1 and i want to build a great optimized melee build.
i want to plan a fighter/barb so what do you recommend? should i go full fighter or full barb? or make a multiclass between fighter and barb?
as of now i am between a fighter till 15 lvls then 5 lvls barb, or a full barb with 2 or 3 fighter dip lvls


all opinions welcome

Go full Barbarian, I would take a look at Wolf totem so that not only you are a Melee god but you help your subjects become better at attacking.

[Gignere]

I like Battlemaster 6 Barbarian 4 (Bear Totem) or my Guts build and then whatever you enjoy more (barbarian or fighter). The build would be

VHuman
Str 14 (+1) (+1 HAM)
Con 15 (+1)

However you want to spread the rest of the points.

Level 1 HAM and Defense Fighting style
Level 4 + 2 Str
Level 6 GWM
Level 10 +2 Str

Uses a great sword.

This baby can GWM master with advantage and add + 1d8 (precise) to any attack 4 times per short rest. Anytime you crit or drop an enemy you get a bonus attack.
Rage 3 times for half damage from everything except psychic and takes off 3 points of damage from S/P/B.

I would probably try and get to 11 Fighter to get an extra swing.

[PloxBox]

I like Battlemaster 6 Barbarian 4 (Bear Totem) or my Guts build and then whatever you enjoy more (barbarian or fighter). The build would be

VHuman
Str 14 (+1) (+1 HAM)
Con 15 (+1)

However you want to spread the rest of the points.

Level 1 HAM and Defense Fighting style
Level 4 + 2 Str
Level 6 GWM
Level 10 +2 Str

Uses a great sword.

This baby can GWM master with advantage and add + 1d8 (precise) to any attack 4 times per short rest. Anytime you crit or drop an enemy you get a bonus attack.
Rage 3 times for half damage from everything except psychic and takes off 3 points of damage from S/P/B.

I would probably try and get to 11 Fighter to get an extra swing.

Does the heavy armor master -3 damage apply to non heavy armor? Because if not, you can't rage while wearing heavy armor.

[XmonkTad]

If you truly want to be a melee god to the exclusion of everything else, then start barb, go frenzy and only dip a bit of champion fighter for action surge and expanded crit range.

For the best utility, totem barb 6 (Eagle)/battle master 7 gets you the ability to analyze targets a mile away, and you're still a perfectly competent fighter.

[ChubbyRain]

If you truly want to be a melee god to the exclusion of everything else, then start barb, go frenzy and only dip a bit of champion fighter for action surge and expanded crit range.

For the best utility, totem barb 6 (Eagle)/battle master 7 gets you the ability to analyze targets a mile away, and you're still a perfectly competent fighter.


No frenzy, it makes you less of a god as the day goes on. Very bad for living.

Unless DM rules that you can restore exhaustion levels with HD, never take frenzy

[djreynolds]

Frenzy barbarian, it all depends how you view mindless rage, it may be a stronger ability than you think, but when using frenzy stuff like shield master is out and GWM/PAM are less potent, but sentinel is still there... no one says you have to use frenzy. And even if the DM makes up a short rest recovery for exhaustion... its BA is competing directly with the BAs of GWM/PAM/shield master. IMO you should be here for mindless rage or not.

Wolf is awesome in a party with other melee pals

Bear barbarian is nice, if you are the lone tank

HAM only work in heavy armor, thus preventing rage, you still take half damage from mundane attacks

I don't want you to metagame and change your character concept.....

But for me, who else is in your party? It might change the party dynamics

Is shield master and wolf totem a good combo, its okay but its not the optimal choice, and can do this at 14th level as a freebie

Is there a paladin with a sweet aura of protection and can smite and there is a rogue... than wolf totem is awesome

Are there wizards bard monk rogues... than bear totem is probably a better choice... maybe even pure.

[Socratov]

i need help in optimizing a fighter/ barbarian build as a melee GOD

we are starting a new campaign at level 1 and i want to build a great optimized melee build.
i want to plan a fighter/barb so what do you recommend? should i go full fighter or full barb? or make a multiclass between fighter and barb?
as of now i am between a fighter till 15 lvls then 5 lvls barb, or a full barb with 2 or 3 fighter dip lvls


all opinions welcome

Basically any of these options will work, depending on what you want to wield, what subclass to get, etc.

For instance, if you want to critfish like mad, odds are that you want to take barbarian 2 for the always on advantage, after you take fighter 1. You will delay your extra attack, but it will pay dividend soon. Also, the extra damage on attack will work well for a class that gets extra attacks.

Now, if you want to have real fun, after you take barbarian 2 you continue on with fighter (champion archetype) and get a Glaive and both Great Weapon Mastery and Polearm mastery. Put the rest into Str. and Con.. Now you get to use a BA to make another attack every turn, either through GWM on a crit with the business end of your glaive, or polearm mastery with the butt.

You will eventually crit on an 18, and with advantage, 4 opportunities per turn will mean you will crit a lot. So eventually you want to get that vorpal glaive and blenderize everything in your path.

So in short:

fighter 1 (for the heavy armour)/barb2/fighter rest.

Get GWM, Get PAM, put rest in STR and Con and go to town. Keep a lookout for a vorpal polearm.

Feel like the French Bougoisie in 1789.

Stay Classy.

[maxwell_wolfen]

i forgot to mention . yes we will reach 20 lvl.

the campaign is in very early steps and i dont clearly know what companions i may have. maybe a sharpshooter fighter from UA archetype, and a rogue but i am not sure.

going champion and only 2 levls barb is nice. though i miss those brutal critical but sure cant have it all. i may start as a half orc though for the extra critical dice.

[djreynolds]

I guess the question is what do you want?

How do you kill?

Do you use any weapon, or preferred method?

The nice thing about champion is the can use anything, and barbarians really do not need feats.

My advice to you is if you are not going for survivor level 18 champion, get out a 3-4 levels.

If you are going to wear medium armor, grab rogue and have expertise in athletics and perception or something else, but at 17th level your athletics score is +17, if you roll a 20, its +37 for check

Begin as a barbarian till 5th level and then grab rogue for expertise in athletics, and then sprinkle in a few levels of fighter as you want.

Good luck

[Specter]

Barbarian 4/Fighter 16 is avery solid build as a final one. 7 ASI's, 3 attacks and the best barbarian abilities in general.

Tailor your Barbarian archetype according to your team's needs. If there are 2 or more melee guys other than you, Wolf. If not, Bear. Frenzy is also better than people give it credit, but if you're going down that road take 6 levels of Barbarian. That Mindless Rage basically makes you immune to the most boring things in the game.

Oh, and without Mindless Rage you definitely want to take Resilient (WIS). Reinforce those mental defenses, you don't want to be the guy thrashing his own party (seen it happen to way too many Barbarians).

For the fighter archetype, it all comes down to whether you want those frequent half-orc crits (champion) or to coordinate effects to benefit your team (battlemaster). The Scout archetype from UA could also work to give you more skill prowess, if your party needs it.

So bottom line, this is how I'd do it, with choices in parentheses:

Half-Orc Fighter 16/Barbarian 4
Stats: 16, 12, 16, 10, 13, 8

1: Barbarian
2: Fighter (Great Weapon Fighting)
3: Fighter
4: Fighter (Champion)
5: Fighter (ASI: Great Weapon Master)
6: Fighter
7: Barbarian
8: Barbarian (Wolf with melee-heavy party, Bear otherwise)
9: Fighter (ASI: Resilient WIS)
10: Barbarian (ASI: +2STR)
11: Fighter
12: Fighter (ASI: +2STR)
13: Fighter
14: Fighter (Defense if you're on armor, Archery if you want to be decent at range)
15: Fighter
16: Fighter (ASI: Sentinel)
17: Fighter
18: Fighter (ASI: +2 CON)
19: Fighter
20: Fighter (ASI: +2 CON)

[Gignere]

Does the heavy armor master -3 damage apply to non heavy armor? Because if not, you can't rage while wearing heavy armor.

Heavy armor doesn't stop you from raging you just don't get the benefits like bonus damage, advantage on strength checks and the regular resistance against B/P/S, however bear resistance still works as does reckless attack.

[Gignere]

Frenzy barbarian, it all depends how you view mindless rage, it may be a stronger ability than you think, but when using frenzy stuff like shield master is out and GWM/PAM are less potent, but sentinel is still there... no one says you have to use frenzy. And even if the DM makes up a short rest recovery for exhaustion... its BA is competing directly with the BAs of GWM/PAM/shield master. IMO you should be here for mindless rage or not.

Wolf is awesome in a party with other melee pals

Bear barbarian is nice, if you are the lone tank

HAM only work in heavy armor, thus preventing rage, you still take half damage from mundane attacks

I don't want you to metagame and change your character concept.....

But for me, who else is in your party? It might change the party dynamics

Is shield master and wolf totem a good combo, its okay but its not the optimal choice, and can do this at 14th level as a freebie

Is there a paladin with a sweet aura of protection and can smite and there is a rogue... than wolf totem is awesome

Are there wizards bard monk rogues... than bear totem is probably a better choice... maybe even pure.

Heavy armor doesn't prevent rage. Heavy armor doesn't prevent rage. Repeat after me heavy armor doesn't prevent raging. You don't get certain benefits of raging but it doesn't prevent raging.

[djreynolds]

Heavy armor doesn't prevent rage. Heavy armor doesn't prevent rage. Repeat after me heavy armor doesn't prevent raging. You don't get certain benefits of raging but it doesn't prevent raging.


Leo ‎@leonegron037
Can you be wearing heavy armor and still benefit from the Barbarian totem benefits?


Jeremy Crawford ‎@JeremyECrawford
A barbarian in heavy armor can benefit from a totem feature if the feature doesn't prohibit such armor or doesn't rely on Rage. #DnD https://twitter.com/leonegron037/status/783800115970633732 …


Jeremy Crawford ‎@JeremyECrawford
The 3rd-level totem features rely on Rage and therefore don't work with heavy armor. The 6th-level features don't rely on Rage. #DnD https://twitter.com/eerongal/status/784134673723252736 …

Jeremy Crawford ‎@JeremyECrawford
Rage. RAW: you can activate it in heavy armor and get nothing from the Rage feature. RAI: Rage and heavy armor don't mix. [/B]

I'm sorry, I wish I could. I love the idea of a heavy armor raging barbarian. You get no benefits

No resistance, no extra damage, no mindless rage, no frenzy, no 3rd level totem abilites

[Gignere]

Leo ‎@leonegron037
Can you be wearing heavy armor and still benefit from the Barbarian totem benefits?


Jeremy Crawford ‎@JeremyECrawford
A barbarian in heavy armor can benefit from a totem feature if the feature doesn't prohibit such armor or doesn't rely on Rage. #DnD https://twitter.com/leonegron037/status/783800115970633732 …


Jeremy Crawford ‎@JeremyECrawford
The 3rd-level totem features rely on Rage and therefore don't work with heavy armor. The 6th-level features don't rely on Rage. #DnD https://twitter.com/eerongal/status/784134673723252736 …

Jeremy Crawford ‎@JeremyECrawford
Rage. RAW: you can activate it in heavy armor and get nothing from the Rage feature. RAI: Rage and heavy armor don't mix. [/B]

I'm sorry, I wish I could. I love the idea of a heavy armor raging barbarian. You get no benefits

No resistance, no extra damage, no mindless rage, no frenzy, no 3rd level totem abilites

Crawford said RAW you can do it. If he intended that rage doesn't work in heavy armor he could have easily written it that way. Like cannot rage in heavy armor, why allow it if you don't intend it to be beneficial. Instead there is no doubt that you can rage in heavy armor you just don't get 3 bullets of benefits. Nothing in bear totem even interacts with armor.

Edit: This is the first time I totally disagree with a Crawford ruling it is so blatantly against the RaW. I didn't like the sorcerer/wizard + damage to spell ruling but at least that was just a strict RaW reading. This RAI is basically saying ignore what we wrote in PHB. /end rant

[djreynolds]

I agree 100% it sucks and they should just say it cleanly.

But you get nothing out it.

I think the confusion is that the eagle states heavy armor restriction, and the other 2 don't.

Obviously we are not the first to question it.

So unfortunately raging in heavy armor really grants nothing.

[Gignere]

I agree 100% it sucks and they should just say it cleanly.

But you get nothing out it.

I think the confusion is that the eagle states heavy armor restriction, and the other 2 don't.

Obviously we are not the first to question it.

So unfortunately raging in heavy armor really grants nothing.

I am just going to ignore this ruling because if I take Crawford's ruling on this it will basically mean we should all just play using his tweets instead of buying any rule books. It will also mean I have to ask Crawford to go through every class feature and get his RaI because if he is going to so blatantly go against RaW this means nothing RaW is reliable.

[maxwell_wolfen]

as i see it. a fighter/barbarian multiclass and what combination to use comes down to two things

do you want many attacks but with lower critical damage (no brutal critical) ? but still you have rage and many attacks from fighter plus many ASI's and champion critical threats, or battlemaster maneuvers
such a build is probably a 17fighter/ 3 barbariana or 5 barbarian/15 fighter

do you want less attacks but brutal criticals? choose half orc and you have rage, brutal criticals, less ASI's, onw time action surge and 2 to 3 attacks, but many more barbarian class features and more damage per rage
such a build is probably a 17 barbarian/ 3 fighter or 18 barb/ 2 fighter

pros and cons....

[Socratov]

I am just going to ignore this ruling because if I take Crawford's ruling on this it will basically mean we should all just play using his tweets instead of buying any rule books. It will also mean I have to ask Crawford to go through every class feature and get his RaI because if he is going to so blatantly go against RaW this means nothing RaW is reliable.

Well, the sage advice tweets are neither here nor there. Some make some sense, others not so much. Sometimes the tweets do seem like common sense, other times I wonder what the devs are smoking and where they get it.

In this case though I hadn't noticed it, but as you go up to lvl 20, it's not that hard to score some magic half plate. Dex 14 and you're set.

[bid]

do you want less attacks but brutal criticals? choose half orc and you have rage, brutal criticals, less ASI's, onw time action surge and 2 to 3 attacks, but many more barbarian class features and more damage per rage
such a build is probably a 17 barbarian/ 3 fighter or 18 barb/ 2 fighter
I'm pretty sure Str24 does more damage, if you have GWM there's no contest.

[maxwell_wolfen]

I'm pretty sure Str24 does more damage, if you have GWM there's no contest.


its +2 to attack and damage but you still have 2 attacks....no more.. 3 if you have berserker as bonus action
a multiclass build can have polearm mastery (d4 bonus attack + str and prof) and 3 attacks per round plus action surge. and still rage with +2 damage
i dont know for sure but 4 attacks versus 2 or 3 seems more damaging. and both can have GWF (not counting action surge)

[Socratov]

its +2 to attack and damage but you still have 2 attacks....no more.. 3 if you have berserker as bonus action
a multiclass build can have polearm mastery (d4 bonus attack + str and prof) and 3 attacks per round plus action surge. and still rage with +2 damage
i dont know for sure but 4 attacks versus 2 or 3 seems more damaging. and both can have GWF (not counting action surge)

It's really, really easy to get your 3rd attack once you have a martial class (barbarian, ranger, paladin, valor bard, fighter and any other class that can get an extra attack as part of the attack action). Just dual wielding is enough, but stuff like PAM or GWM's 3rd benefit can really help.

More attacks won't ever hurt you chances at doing damage, but math has pointed out that it's not the only thing: static damage is more dependable, GWM's -5/+10 really takes off with the right circumstances (like the barbarian's reckless attacks). If even created a build once that used GWM and paladin to hit hard once or twice a day, but once you do you hit like a truck. And it seems that creating advantage for yourself is immensely stronger then just getting more attacks. This edition hitting hard has the opportunity to be just as good as hitting often.

[bid]

i dont know for sure but 4 attacks versus 2 or 3 seems more damaging. and both can have GWF (not counting action surge)
You are talking about a fighter 11 build, I was replying to the barbarian 17 alternative. If you go that deep, might as well go all the way.

[maxwell_wolfen]

You are talking about a fighter 11 build, I was replying to the barbarian 17 alternative. If you go that deep, might as well go all the way.

full barbarian seems nice and i really like it.

a 3rd level dip of fighter champion though nets you action surge (one at a time) meaning another barrage of attacks. and a critical threat of champion. a full barb only gets +2 damage and attack.
thats why a barb 17 and fighter 3 combines best of both worlds IMO. a half orc with brutal critical and 3 attacks a round with GWM or polearm is top notch. i also really like human to start with GWM right away too

[djreynolds]

Okay here are so options and idea and break points

Champion, take 3-4 levels for improved crit and ASI or 18 levels, survivor works all day long not 1 minute.

How good is survivor, I personally played 4 champions with survivor feature, and though I loathe the class, this feature is strong as it doesn't matter if you are held or paralyzed as long as you have 1 HP you regenerate to half health, 5 + con every turn

There is no point going to 15th level champion for crit or 17th level for extra action surge and not grabbing survivor at 18th

A 3rd level barbarian has 3 rages a day for 1 minute, but at these early levels if you fail a wisdom or charisma save, you will lose that rage.

So if you are going to lean on rage you need 15 levels. Period. Persistent rage lasts only if you are unconscious or you choose to end it

So really I would look to build my class around either

15th level barbarian

18th level champion, survivor is too good to pass up

15th level-17th level battlemaster

Also please grab 1 level of rogue for expertise in athletics, +17 to your athletics check at level 17.

How strong is it? A 20th level barbarian rolls at a minimum a 24 but max is a 31, you only need 8 to beat the minimum or a 15 to beat his max. Now toss in advantage to that when you are raging, anything large or smaller is down.

And 2 levels gives you cunning action

So 16 bear totem barbarian, 3 champion, 1 rogue for expertise in athletics and perception... not bad

[maxwell_wolfen]

Okay here are so options and idea and break points

Champion, take 3-4 levels for improved crit and ASI or 18 levels, survivor works all day long not 1 minute.

How good is survivor, I personally played 4 champions with survivor feature, and though I loathe the class, this feature is strong as it doesn't matter if you are held or paralyzed as long as you have 1 HP you regenerate to half health, 5 + con every turn

There is no point going to 15th level champion for crit or 17th level for extra action surge and not grabbing survivor at 18th

A 3rd level barbarian has 3 rages a day for 1 minute, but at these early levels if you fail a wisdom or charisma save, you will lose that rage.

So if you are going to lean on rage you need 15 levels. Period. Persistent rage lasts only if you are unconscious or you choose to end it

So really I would look to build my class around either

15th level barbarian

18th level champion, survivor is too good to pass up

15th level-17th level battlemaster

Also please grab 1 level of rogue for expertise in athletics, +17 to your athletics check at level 17.

How strong is it? A 20th level barbarian rolls at a minimum a 24 but max is a 31, you only need 8 to beat the minimum or a 15 to beat his max. Now toss in advantage to that when you are raging, anything large or smaller is down.

And 2 levels gives you cunning action

So 16 bear totem barbarian, 3 champion, 1 rogue for expertise in athletics and perception... not bad

i was looking at a 11 lvl fighter battlemaster with polearm and GWM plus sentinel and tunnel fighter. and 9 lvls of barbarian
what do you think of it?

[djreynolds]

I think that build will kick plenty of *ss.

I like battlemaster coupled with rage... screw the shield and just skewer people.

Awesome, simply awesome

[maxwell_wolfen]

I think that build will kick plenty of *ss.

I like battlemaster coupled with rage... screw the shield and just skewer people.

Awesome, simply awesome

polearm and battlemaster plus GWM and sentinel/tunnel fighter is a potent combo.
though it could still get some refinement. such as dump 9 lvl barbarians brutal critical (its only one dice) and without champions threat range its not tha awesome. Then icould still choose one more feat (going 12 lvl fighter) or put a rogue lvl

does rogue gives me anything special? i am a STR fighter.