Playing 20 wis, 20 cha, 20 int all at once

[Zhentarim]

This is the inverse of my other thread, but I got to thinking about those games where you get a lucky roll and end up with an opportunity for 3 high mental scores? I even once thought of rolling up a 25 point buy cleric of Abadar with mental stats like this, using aging rules to pump up the brains even more. You can answer how you would generally play these stats or how you would play a cleric of a normally "stupid" god with these stats. I think this will be interesting!

[Buufreak]

Honestly? I couldn't play this character. Not only do I think I wouldn't give it proper justice, but playing an elite caster at a table with my friends will literally get books thrown at me (it has happened).

That said, I would probably go for something along the lines of the righteous arrogance. Be that guy who talks a huge game, is totally cocky about it, but then is able to put up and doesn't have to shut up. I'd play a rockstar of a character, who would depending on goals and alignment became a legendary hero or the makings of his own cult classic.

At least, that is the plan. Execution may very.

[Duke of Urrel]

My advice is to paraphrase.

Make ability checks with your great mental abilities as often as you can to get good information. Then quietly act on this information and persuade your allies to do the same. You are good at this because your mental ability scores make you good at this.

You're not arrogant – or if you secretly are, nobody knows it, because you hide it so well with your phenomenal Charisma.

You're not an absent-minded professor, because your phenomenal Wisdom means you have a nearly perfect memory and seldom forget anything.

You have an amazing amount of skill and knowledge because you're phenomenally Intelligent.

Don't worry about how you do what you do – just do it. I believe accurately role-playing a universal genius would be far beyond my own acting ability, too. So again, just paraphrase. Say things like this: "I make a Diplomacy check to persuade people that my well-informed plan is just what everybody wanted to do, only they didn't realize it until now." This is the kind of thing that your character can just do, provided that your skill check succeeds.

The fantasy character who most resembles you is probably Havelock Vetinari, the Patrician of Ankh-Morpork.

POSTSCRIPT: Albus Dumbledore is another good role model. Granny Weatherwax also comes to mind.

[INoKnowNames]

You share my sympathy. In a private roleplaying session with friends, I have a character who is in the range of 40 Int, 20 Wis, and 50 Cha. Which is rightful something I don't believe I'm capable of properly playing, because 18 in each is supposed to be the limit of human intellectual ability, and my own acuteness is probably more within the range of 10s if I might so be generous.

That said, I have tried to give the matter some thought:

With extreme Intelligence, you know everything. You've read everything. Information comes so easily and readily to you that even on subjects you aren't directly versed in, your viewpoint on the matter has considerable worth, and anything you choose to dedicate yourself to you would be seen as a world (planar?) expert on.

Overwhelming Wisdom is similar, but not quite the same, yet still goes hand in hand. Your senses are near top notch, your deductive skills are on point; your awareness of the world around you and how things work is unrivaled, even if you don't know exactly how it works your intuition more than makes up for it.

The first stereotype that comes to mind are people like what most imagine Sherlock Holmes like, able to figure out multiple details down to a micromanagement level of minutiae, all at a sheer glance. At least, combining the first two.

Intense Charisma is a bit easier to qualify, it's the affect you have on others. You're at or beyond celebrity status. People fawn over you from your sheer strength of character (regardless of your appearance, I might note). This is something the leaders of your in game world typically must have, good or bad, for one rarely rallies behind one incapable of cultivating their lessers. Fear, Intimidation, Guile, Persuasiveness, it all runs on Charisma, and it shows. This is probably the one that's most variable, depending on your alignment and such to determine exactly how it is that others are drawn to you, but great and terrible things can be expected from someone capable of getting the entire world on their side.

Put it all together, and you've got someone poised to reshape their own campaign setting, possibly without having to lift a single finger themselves to do so. Definitely not someone suited to the life of a servant or cleaning up rats, that's for sure.

To address your point directly, a Cleric with these stats would probably end up becoming the next Dalia Lama, Buddha, or Pope. And with Divine level support on their side, who but those determined to oppose them would speak words against them or their God?

As a bit of an afterthought, my own execution would be somewhere along the lines of someone with the understanding of the difference between herself and other people, but humble enough not to abuse it, despite having nearly every chance to do so. Yet still, even casually the differences between her and the crowd of those aided by her vast intellect would be massive, and she'd need to struggle just to keep reminding herself that, at least in her own mind and definitely in regards to her spirit, that she's really not much different from anyone else. She'd be determined to spend her time helping others, and typically have the tools to do so, if not be capable of finding them easily.

[Zhentarim]

My favorite character concept for this is based on 25 point buy, is a peri-blooded aasimar, and has the old age ability mod. I think I would make them a lore oracle. Doing this, I can give them these stats:

4 str
4 dex
10 con
20 int
18 wis
20 cha

I'd put a rank in each knowledge skill, as well as a rank in diplomacy. He'd probably be a battlefield control guy in combat, so I'd give him sidestep secret to cover up those abysmal physical stats.

My idea to roleplay this is basically the wise asian guy from those kung-fu movies that seems to have the answer to everything.

[Particle_Man]

Smart like Sherlock Holmes, wise like the Dalai Lama, charismatic like your favourite music or movie star, all together!

Just do your best, I guess? I mean, it would be hard for me to roleplay out someone that far above my stats as a player. ;)

[martixy]

I feel like people need to re-calibrate their expectations of what ability scores mean. At least the mental ones.

Like maybe bump it up a notch or two. Like 20 int = high academics, 22 = genius and beyond is superhuman numbers.
Heck, by D&D measurement, kids who were good at school these days leave with a 16 or so int.
8 points between the average medieval schmuck and the pinnacle of human capacity seems like an awfully small range. And by pinnacle I mean a modern-day, real-life understanding, because that's what 99.9% of you imagine when referring to that cliched "18 is supposed to be the limit of human ability" phrase.

[Schattenbach]

High Wis can (besides the pure mechanical benefits) have different effects on the character ... he actually could still be some forgetful professor, but at the same time, he could be incredibly intuitive and/or empathic. High Cha has the issue that it's - to some degree - mixed with how the character actually looks (though it's slightly diubious about that), his force of personality as well as, well, "charisma" (which, as terminology isn't strictly linked to looks or force of personality). as well as the character's social characteristics in general ... Those Cha related points often intersect with each other, though.

[martixy]

Btw... after a quick search, for strength specifically:

Weightlifting Records:
Deadlift: 535 kg[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadlift#World_records)
Clean & Jerk: 263 kg[2] (http://www.iwf.net/results/world-records/)

Closest ingame match = 23 strength:
Off the ground: 544 kg (1200 lbs)
Heavy Load/Max Overhead: 272 kg (600 lbs)

So, yea, the "18 is the pinnacle of human ability" spiel needs to DIE.

[Morphic tide]

Btw... after a quick search, for strength specifically:

Weightlifting Records:
Deadlift: 535 kg[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadlift#World_records)
Clean & Jerk: 263 kg[2] (http://www.iwf.net/results/world-records/)

Closest ingame match = 23 strength:
Off the ground: 544 kg (1200 lbs)
Heavy Load/Max Overhead: 272 kg (600 lbs)

So, yea, the "18 is the pinnacle of human ability" spiel needs to DIE.

Actual "peak human" is 24, as that is what you can roll in Dark Sun, the land where random villagers are level three Warriors instead of level one Commoners. And are still entirely worthless combatants compared to the basic wildlife.

[OldTrees1]

I feel like people need to re-calibrate their expectations of what ability scores mean. At least the mental ones.

Be careful about requests for re-calibration. Are you asking about calibrating to the designer's intent? Are you asking about calibrating to the designer's math errors? Or are you asking to correct misunderstandings about the designer's intent?


1st level humans range from 3-18.
Age can add +3 to that mental range. Not everyone survives to be middle aged so this does not quite increase the median by +1.5. However it does increase the pinnacle by +3.
Finally it is commonly assumed that IRL human pinnacle maps to 6th level in game humans. This increases the pinnacle by +1. But since not everyone survives to 4th level it does not quite increase the median by +1/12.


So human mental range is from 3 to 22 but the median is less than 11.0833. So yes the pinnacle of human mental stats is higher than 18 however an 18 is still nearly as rare as a 22.

[martixy]

Be careful about requests for re-calibration. Are you asking about calibrating to the designer's intent? Are you asking about calibrating to the designer's math errors? Or are you asking to correct misunderstandings about the designer's intent?


1st level humans range from 3-18.
Age can add +3 to that mental range. Not everyone survives to be middle aged so this does not quite increase the median by +1.5. However it does increase the pinnacle by +3.
Finally it is commonly assumed that IRL human pinnacle maps to 6th level in game humans. This increases the pinnacle by +1. But since not everyone survives to 4th level it does not quite increase the median by +1/12.


So human mental range is from 3 to 22 but the median is less than 11.0833. So yes the pinnacle of human mental stats is higher than 18 however an 18 is still nearly as rare as a 22.

Option #3? Neither?

Everything you said are very good points, my gripe is that most people fail to account for them when drawing parallels.

I'm wishing for people to correct their perspective on an otherwise surprisingly accurate system.
Here's some more theorycrafting on the very same topic: D&D: Calibrating Your Expectations (http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/587/roleplaying-games/dd-calibrating-your-expectations-2)

Now, I know this won't happen since the 18 thing is very pervasive, but I endeavour to draw attention to it anyway.

[OldTrees1]

Option #3? Neither?

Everything you said are very good points, my gripe is that most people fail to account for them when drawing parallels.

I'm wishing for people to correct their perspective on an otherwise surprisingly accurate system.
Here's some more theorycrafting on the very same topic: D&D: Calibrating Your Expectations (http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/587/roleplaying-games/dd-calibrating-your-expectations-2)

Now, I know this won't happen since the 18 thing is very pervasive, but I endeavour to draw attention to it anyway.

Based upon your approval of the math facts I mentioned & the reference you linked, I think option 3 is a good approximation of your intent.


While 18 is not technically the pinnacle of human mental ability (that being 22), the weigh people give to an 18(0.5% of the population) is fairly accurately placed. With the additional facts I highlighted the average of the top 0.5% bracket would likely fall at 19-20 (total range being 18-22). So while the comparison is inaccurate, the "18 is the pinnacle" myth is accurate for most practical purposes.

[Particle_Man]

Presumably, then, if one can work out what percentage of the population actually has the RL equivalent of "20 wis, 20 cha and 20 int all at once", then, given a RL world population of billions, one should find these people, investigate what they are like (perhaps through biographies) and then roleplay characters with those stats in a similar manner.

[OldTrees1]

Presumably, then, if one can work out what percentage of the population actually has the RL equivalent of "20 wis, 20 cha and 20 int all at once", then, given a RL world population of billions, one should find these people, investigate what they are like (perhaps through biographies) and then roleplay characters with those stats in a similar manner.

It is roughly the top 0.00001% or 1 in 10 million so there are only 750 in the world. That is only 10,760 if you include all of human history.

[Zhentarim]

It is roughly the top 0.00001% or 1 in 10 million so there are only 750 in the world. That is only 10,760 if you include all of human history.

Would Stephen Hawkings count?

[OldTrees1]

Would Stephen Hawkings count?

I do not know much about his Wis or Cha (no data -> no comment) but his Int is up there. Although that might be an example of a 22 Int.


Also I am not in a good place to guess as precisely as 1/10 Million.

[Zhentarim]

I do not know much about his Wis or Cha (no data -> no comment) but his Int is up there. Although that might be an example of a 22 Int.


Also I am not in a good place to guess as precisely as 1/10 Million.

He has lots of people who adore him, and he says some pretty badass quotes. Neil DeGrasse Tyson also comes to my mind.

[Particle_Man]

I don't see Hawking's charisma as *that* high, personally.

[martixy]

If you're looking for that kind of person, I have a very representative suggestion:

Richard Feynman

Oodles of Int, Wis AND Cha.

[Tohsaka Rin]

It sounds to me like you want to play 'The Most Interesting Man in the World'. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ-K0Tl8a_Y)

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/3f/3fc81b2d27139fb975f4cb725787b122952ca5100e0a1b08ac 1e80ad7e4ed56c.jpg