Unfair encounter?

[ShadowSandbag]

So this is like the fourth or fifth time our GM has put us in a situation that felt like it was way above what we should be doing, so I figured I'd ask to see if I'm right or not. Our party was up against an adult White Dragon with lair attacks.

I don't know everyone's full levels/paths, just their totals and what classes they have. Lv 4/2 Ranger/Barbarian, Lv 5 Rogue, Lv 6 Paladin, Lv 6 Eldritch Knight, Lv 6 (3/3?) Warlock/Cleric, LV 5 Monk, Lv 6 blood hunter.

We just barely avoided a TPK, but there was one death and just about everyone was downed at one point or another. Additionally we had no chance to rest/prepare before the battle, we were pretty much flung in from nowhere. We weren't at no health or anything, but certainly weren't at our best. So am I crazy or was this a fight we had no reason to be in?

[Erys]

So this is like the fourth or fifth time our GM has put us in a situation that felt like it was way above what we should be doing, so I figured I'd ask to see if I'm right or not. Our party was up against an adult White Dragon with lair attacks.

I don't know everyone's full levels/paths, just their totals and what classes they have. Lv 4/2 Ranger/Barbarian, Lv 5 Rogue, Lv 6 Paladin, Lv 6 Eldritch Knight, Lv 6 (3/3?) Warlock/Cleric, LV 5 Monk, Lv 6 blood hunter.

We just barely avoided a TPK, but there was one death and just about everyone was downed at one point or another. Additionally we had no chance to rest/prepare before the battle, we were pretty much flung in from nowhere. We weren't at no health or anything, but certainly weren't at our best. So am I crazy or was this a fight we had no reason to be in?

7 players make encounters... interesting.

Just the one dragon? I would have guessed that would have been too easy, guess it got some lucky breath weapon recharges.

[Sicarius Victis]

If you survived, and your opponent didn't, then the encounter was perfectly balanced. It's only too difficult when the party actually can't walk out with all members alive. "Any landing that you can walk away from is a good landing", neh?

[Cybren]

Were you prevented from retreating? From determining your enemies capabilities beforehand? From establishing favorable conditions for combat? Did you just walk into a room with a dragon and assume you can win because you're the PCs?

[JakOfAllTirades]

That sounds awesome! And I agree with the observation about having seven players. Your DM really has his work cut out for him.

[Flashy]

Deadly encounter threshold for a party of 7 6th level PCs is 9800 xp. A lone adult white dragon is 10,000xp. The encounter should be difficult but not totally beyond the pale. It sounds like that's about what happened.

[Foxhound438]

Deadly encounter threshold for a party of 7 6th level PCs is 9800 xp. A long adult white dragon is 10,000xp. The encounter should be difficult, not totally beyond the pale. It sounds like that's about what happened.

I agree with this

I'd also add that it looks like you have a pair of not exactly optimal multiclass level splits. The one guy has 2 martial classes and no extra attack, another has apparently 2nd level spells at best at level 6 as full caster/full caster, so they're probably not in the best levels to be fighting up CR. Give it another level or 2 and you should be pretty much at full steam.

[DragonSorcererX]

Or the Dragon was played the right way (wich is weird for White Dragons because they are stupid) or these guys are really bad at fighting...

[ShadowSandbag]

I agree with this

I'd also add that it looks like you have a pair of not exactly optimal multiclass level splits. The one guy has 2 martial classes and no extra attack, another has apparently 2nd level spells at best at level 6 as full caster/full caster, so they're probably not in the best levels to be fighting up CR. Give it another level or 2 and you should be pretty much at full steam.

Yeah, are party is not at all optimized.


Were you prevented from retreating? From determining your enemies capabilities beforehand? From establishing favorable conditions for combat? Did you just walk into a room with a dragon and assume you can win because you're the PCs?

We were teleported into the dragons lair without warning and were doing everything we could to just get out without encountering the dragon. When we did find it, it surprised us from a ledge and the only real option for escape was a long corridor that was big enough the dragon could chase us down it.

Thanks for the feedback everyone!

[Armok]

Adult white dragon in its lair, PCs at level 6-7, there's a ledge... Yeah, this encounter sounds very familiar. On the off chance your DM hasn't revealed the books they're pulling from, I won't say where I've seen this before.

What I will say is that I've run this very encounter for a group of level 6 adventurers myself. It was tough for them, but just like your group they scraped through. The encounter itself, assuming it's the one it sounds exactly like, is deadly for level 6 but still balanced and doable if the party has prepwork... or a hell of a lot of gumption. My guess is the teleportation was a trap you all stumbled into.

[MrStabby]

Unfair? Yes. Wrong? nope.

Sure the encounter is imbalanced, yes you didn't get to prepare and sure the dragon had a home advantage. Fighting against the odds is part of the fun of D&D. The good news is that you know that things cant get tough really quickly, that you don't always see danger coming and that the party doesn't always have the strategic initiative. The world is beyond your control.

For me anyway, these are the hallmarks of an exciting campaign - that fight to survive and the realisation that heroic deeds are not easy otherwise everyone would be doing them.

To me it also sounds like the DM is doing a great job of challenging your resource management. Now even the "easy" encounters are more exciting - it isn't just a case of winning or losing but a question of what cost in terms of HP and other resources.

Now this might not be the type of campaign you want to play - which is fine. In this case speak to your DM and the other players and describe the style of game you want. It seems like the DM has a dangerous style in mind and is probably doing a great job at it. Having escaped, are you glad it was that hard or do you wish it had been easier? Was it more or less fun an encounter than others?

Given your party I am actually surprised that the dragon was defeated in a fight (although maybe you just escaped). You have a good amount of your party looking like they are likely to be weak outside of melee and the dragon can (and should) fly. Those likely to have ganged attacks/spells might not have enough HP to shrug off the breath weapon attacks. Dragons are mean as if you cluster they catch more of you in their breath, if you spread out they can pick off those at the edges.