Avoiding ability score loss/contingent spell

[Keral]

Hi!

As the title says, how can one go about it?

I know there are a few enchantments that allow one to be protected form some (or all) negative energy effects, but that works, I think, only for ability drain.

I was thinking about craft contingent spell, set to trigger should one ability score be reduced to 0.

If I understand the rules correctly, ability score reduction can't take you below 0. Meaning that I'd get hit with something, like a blashpemy spell (which is what happened prompted me to seek to adress this issue :P) lowering my poor strenght score to 0; contingent bull's strenght kicks in, getting me up to 4 strenght. Low but not low enought to actually prevent me from moving, thus allowing me to flee o fight.

And, seeing as these kind of things don't stack with themselves (unless I'm terribly wrong), a second casting of the same spell won't work, right? Keeping me at a steady 4.
Unless I find myself facing something with multiple ways to redue the same ability score. In which case I'm probably doomed, but that's unlikely enough not to warrant concern.


Now, however, the main problem. I'm not a caster and can't craft my own contingent spells. Which is a pity since it would be cheap (2x3x100) enough to walk around with all 6 spells on, tho I'd probably only need bull's strenght, since strenght seems to be the most common and incidentally is my lowest ability score.

There is the contingency spell. But lasts less and costs a ton more.

Do you have any suggestions? Or is it easier to forget about it and just buy a something of strenght+6 and hope nothing lowers my strenght more than 13 before I can react?

[Fizban]

The spells you want are Body Ward and Soul Ward from Complete Champion: same level as Lesser Restoration and they actually prevent more damage than you'd ever get on the roll. Even better, it explicity has a stacking effect: more spells increase the total amount prevented, not a true multiplier but up to 10 with just a few castings.

The Ring of Nullification from Tome of Magic can prevent 2 points of ability damage as well, but it's not great for the job.

[Deophaun]

The spells you want are Body Ward and Soul Ward from Complete Champion: same level as Lesser Restoration and they actually prevent more damage than you'd ever get on the roll.
Blasphemy doesn't do damage, though. It's a straight reduction, so body ward wouldn't help. Bull's strength would, though.

Multiple castings of blasphemy would not stack for that reason, but they would overlap. Since it's a die-roll, that means a second casting could hit you harder than the first.

[Keral]

Yes, but what about penalties?

It was my understanding that ability damage, ability drain and ability penalties were different, has my brain decieved me?

This would only protect me from ability damage, would it not?

Not that they aren't good spells, it's just not what I need, unless I'm mistaken in my assumption.

[Deophaun]

It was my understanding that ability damage, ability drain and ability penalties were different, has my brain decieved me?
They are different, but blasphemy isn't a penalty, either. Penalties can't reduce your score below 1.

[Keral]

Multiple castings of blasphemy would not stack for that reason, but they would overlap. Since it's a die-roll, that means a second casting could hit you harder than the first.

Mh, yes, but still, I have 8 in str. So if contingency is triggered it means the 2d6 came out 8+.
The way I understand it, the scenarios are:

-First attempt is an 8, second is a 12 -> I'm screwed.
-First attempt is 9-11, second is a 12 -> The active effect is already 9 or higher, which means that I would later add the difference between the first and second casting. Meaning I would lose 3 points at most. Leaving me with 1. And I'm ok.



They are different, but blasphemy isn't a penalty, either. Penalties can't reduce your score below 1.

I thought it was a penalty by exclusion. Anyhow, could you point me at where it says that they can't reduce it past 1? I know I read it somewhere, but I can't seem to find it :(

[Fizban]

But, first post? Yeah, never heard of anything that defends against penalties, all you can do against a flat penalty is have enough bonus to offset it.

Variable penalties on the other hand, get wrecked by Damp Power and its item form, Third Eye: Dampening (MiC). Only one charge per day but it's a start.

There aren't all that many large flat ability penalty sources that come to mind, most of them allow saves or you can just beat more easily with immunity from wherever.

[Calthropstu]

Getting immunity to all forms of ability damage and drain is a bit tricky.

Shapechange can generally do it, I think there are some creatures immune to all stat lowering effects that you can turn into. However, short of that, not many things will do it.

And you are, in fact, wrong op... there ARE things that will continue to lower your scores. Poison is the most commonly employed such effect, but also multiple castings of ray of enfeeblement will also stack. While bestow curse won't stack with itself, it WILL stack with plenty of other spells and abilities. Most creatures that inflict drain or damage, such as the wraith, will continually lower your score each attack, and drain and damage both stack with each other.

Your plan of "when my strength reaches 0, buff it so I can get another round and escape" is not a bad one, but you can still take mental actions when your strength is 0, and you get the same benefit from eschew materials, still spell and silent spell at 0 cost. Your plan, each time this happens you will have to get another craft contingent spell... which if it happens often enough that you need this, will ultimately become quite expensive.

[Deophaun]

but also multiple castings of ray of enfeeblement will also stack
No. 10 Character Limit.

Spells that provide bonuses or penalties on attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, and other attributes usually do not stack with themselves. More generally, two bonuses of the same type don’t stack even if they come from different spells (or from effects other than spells; see Bonus Types, above).

[Painfully devoid of anything that says it stacks with itself]

[Calthropstu]

No. 10 Character Limit.

bleh, wtf? How am I getting all this wrong? This is like the 5th time this week. I used to have nearly the entire PHB memorized, being able to quote rules and page numbers from the top of my head. *sigh*

Guess I am getting old. I just looked at Pathfinder and the rule is the same there, specifically calling it out, so it isn't my time spent with the different system. I guess I need to go back over every single rule before I post from now on, because it's clear my memory is failing me.

[EisenKreutzer]

I think Ray of Enfeeblement stacked with itself in 3.0?

[Khedrac]

They are different, but blasphemy isn't a penalty, either. Penalties can't reduce your score below 1.

Aye, blasphemy is weird.

Something to watch out for with penalties, is they whilst they cannot take your stats below 1 (usually) they also are not capped by your score.

What do I mean?
Well, supposed you get hit by an empowered ray of enfeeblement and take a -14 penalty to strength (they rolled a 6 x1.5 + 5).

Starting at 8 strength the 14 penalty takes you down to 1 (because it cannot take you lower).
Your contingent bull's strength kicks in - but this takes you to a strength of 12 with a penalty of 14 - and your strength remains at 1.

[Keral]

And you are, in fact, wrong op... there ARE things that will continue to lower your scores. Poison is the most commonly employed such effect

Uh, yes, but as far as I know, those are smallish in scale. That is, the keep draining or damaging or whatever your score by a tiny bit at a time. That should allow me at least two/three rounds before I'm helpless.
Also, usually poisons require fort saves. As of now, even on a natural 1 I still pass a 20 DC Fort Save. And from my experience most poisons have relatively low-ish DCs

What bothers me more right now is a big and sudden drop in one of my lowest ability scores.



Your plan of "when my strength reaches 0, buff it so I can get another round and escape" is not a bad one, but you can still take mental actions when your strength is 0, and you get the same benefit from eschew materials, still spell and silent spell at 0 cost. Your plan, each time this happens you will have to get another craft contingent spell... which if it happens often enough that you need this, will ultimately become quite expensive.

The thing is, I'm not a caster. Perhaps I should have mentioned it, as a Dragonfire Adept I should manage invocations then even with 0 strenght. I hadn't thought about that, but then only three invocations seem even remotely helpful.

Invisibility: at least I get some concealment when they try to hit me again.
Chilling fog: I can retaliate, but the damage is really small and I doubt that'll save me.
Humanoid form: IF I acquire the target form physical stats, I'll have to read up on that one. It's a bit hard to remember what gives what with all the options for shape changing.


Something to watch out for with penalties, is they whilst they cannot take your stats below 1 (usually) they also are not capped by your score.

What do I mean?
Well, supposed you get hit by an empowered ray of enfeeblement and take a -14 penalty to strength (they rolled a 6 x1.5 + 5).

Starting at 8 strength the 14 penalty takes you down to 1 (because it cannot take you lower).
Your contingent bull's strength kicks in - but this takes you to a strength of 12 with a penalty of 14 - and your strength remains at 1.

Ah, well, that's not really an issue tho. As long as I have at least 1 I'm not bothered much. It's the helplessness that worries me.


In the meantime, thanks for all your helpful insight in the matter!