Attempting to find the "Ancient" magic enhancement

[ShadowXXepher]

I figured I would ask the knowledgeable community here, as I've been scouring throughout GitP and other forums relating to D&D, if anyone has seen or can recall which book has something called the "ancient" enhancement. All the information I can recall on it is that it's a +1 enhancement, flavored as reforging a weapon over magical flames, and it doubles a weapon's hit points and/or hardness.

Searching through my own copy of books for it would have suited me better, but my laptop is currently off for repairs and with it, every single book I own. I am aware of the Pure Ore material/modification that does the same thing, but until today I'd never heard of it and had plans for an anti-sunder weapon for a BBEG.

[GilesTheCleric]

Are you sure you didn't see it on dndwiki or in a 3pp book? I've recently gone through every 1st party weapon enchant and don't remember one by that name.

[ShadowXXepher]

I found it in the same day I was searching through Forgotten Realms or Faerun books for things like Glassteel and Starmetal, but without my sourebooks for another month minimum, I've been reduced to scrounging to redownload each book individually and search every single one as well.

Dawns on me that mentioning Forgotten Realms or Faerun the first time around would have been much better off. It's not quite a weapon enhancement as a general enhancement to the best of my recollection, since it could be applied to armors as well.

[GilesTheCleric]

I've run a search for both "ancient" and "hardness", and nothing came up in terms of special materials, weapon enchants, or armour enchants. Are you maybe thinking of one of the item templates from DMG2?

[MisterKaws]

If you really want an anti-sunder weapon, just go with Riverine. It's HP: ∞, Hardness: ∞, with automatic Ghost Touch.

[Deophaun]

If you really want an anti-sunder weapon, just go with Riverine. It's HP: ∞, Hardness: ∞, with automatic Ghost Touch.
Just hope no one casts forceward around it. (Admittedly a rare spell, but it probably shouldn't be)

[MisterKaws]

Just hope no one casts forceward around it. (Admittedly a rare spell, but it probably shouldn't be)

It's probably common sense that Riverine should be considered to be in the "Creatures" group, instead of the "Spells" group, since you don't dispel non-conjured matter, no matter how magical it is. That being the case, I don't see why the weapon's owner having to attempt a relatively low will save to be able to push through what is, as you said, a rare kind of protection, should be treated as such a demerit.

[Deophaun]

That being the case, I don't see why the weapon's owner having to attempt a relatively low will save to be able to push through what is, as you said, a rare kind of protection, should be treated as such a demerit.
That's not the problem:

However, walls of riverine block ethereal travel, breath weapons, and spell effects, just as a wall of force does.

Spells with the force descriptor do not affect anything within the sphere, and any force spell that overlaps the area, such as wall of force, is automatically countered.
So riverine blocks forceward just as a wall of force does: by being automatically countered.

Edit: this is actually more on point:

The sphere negates force effects and provides an impassable barrier against incorporeal creatures.
A wall of magical force would be a force effect. And no, an object is not a creature.

[MisterKaws]

That's not the problem:


So riverine blocks forceward just as a wall of force does: by being automatically countered.

Edit: this is actually more on point:

A wall of magical force would be a force effect. And no, an object is not a creature.

Yes, it is not a creature, but it is not an effect either. Letting a 4th-level spell negate the very existence of an object is a bit of a stretch, don't you think?

And really, it's the DM's duty to decide. Coincidentally, we have the DM here, so why not let them decide on which interpretation would be better in the world?

[Mr Adventurer]

Letting a 4th-level spell negate the very existence of an object is a bit of a stretch, don't you think?

Not really - a 4th level spell in core can kill someone outright.

[Vaz]

That sentence quoted is not applicable to forceward though. I could say that my Ex's heart is a cold ice, doesn't mean it is ice. Synonyms are not appropriate in this instance.

To clarify, it is a wall of riverine, not a Wall of Force. It blocks movement like a Wall of Force, but things that affect the latter do not necessarily affect the former.

[ShadowXXepher]

We've had a somewhat similar run-in with a force bow and a forceward earlier in the campaign, I believe it got ruled by the other DM (co-DMing, I'm much better at creating characters to throw at the party than my partner) that the force arrows bounced off harmlessly, or fizzled out. Stopped the party from destroying a magically-based generator with sniping, since it was creative but we'd had plans for an encounter inside.

I like Riverine actually, but if I followed the standing ruling, Forceward would counter it. Having an item made of pure force is tricky because I know someone's gonna argue force effects are the about the only source of force in the game. If no one has Forceward though, this may be my first choice.

We actually have a friend who used Osteomancer and some clever interpretation with our DM last campaign to make indestructible weapons out of her own bones that bypass DR as their alignment, cold iron, adamantine, and I think silver. For purposes of trying to sunder other people's gear though, you had to look at bone's hardness for your weapon and that was negligible at best.

[Deophaun]

Yes, it is not a creature, but it is not an effect either.
It is an object held together by an effect. You negate the effect, you destroy the object.

Letting a 4th-level spell negate the very existence of an object is a bit of a stretch, don't you think?
Nope, not when the spell and the object both say the 4th-level spell can do it.

To clarify, it is a wall of riverine, not a Wall of Force.
No, it's not a wall of riverine. Read the description.

It blocks movement like a Wall of Force, but things that affect the latter do not necessarily affect the former.
Except for the fact that it's copying and pasting everything that effects a wall of force out of the text of wall of force, and that we aren't talking about movement, but spells. It blocks spells just as wall of force does. So how does wall of force block forceward? That's exactly how these magical walls of force block it (and that story does not end well).