I need some arguments to sway a hesitant GM about Akashic Mysteries

[EisenKreutzer]

So, I loved Incarnum back in 3.5 (I mean the idea of it, I never actually got to play with the system back when I still played 3.5), and I absolutely adore Akashic Mysteries.
A friend of mine is starting up a Pathfinder game soon, and I really want to play with the system. But he's a stubborn grognard-type of guy, and is slow to accept 3rd party material in his games. He never owned or read Magic of Incarnum, and he has a deep seated mistrust of all 3rd party material brought on mostly by Mongoose Publishing back in the day. When I pitched a Vizier character to him, I could tell over Facebook chat that he was really hesitant about even considering it.

So, I could use some good arguments. Not neccessarily to bombard him with "this online forum says its balanced, you need to let me play this," but ways to make him intrigued and perhaps loosen his "3rd party content is overpowered by default" attitude and be more open to try new things. I have stressed for him how much faith I personally have in DSP, and how Akashic Mysteries is just a polished, improved version of an official D&D 3rd system much like Ultimate Psionics.

So, if you were a hardened grognard who cut his teeth on D&D 3.0 and has been burned by terrible 3pp material in the past, what would convince you to allow one of your best friends to bring an Akashic character into your homebrew campaign setting?

[Fizban]

Be honest. Describe in detail exactly what your character can and can't do, in comparison to the rest of the party. Demonstrate how your at-will abilities don't exceed those of other characters in the party, while pointing out the situations where they will so the DM can make an informed decision. Compare the number of abilities you can access by virtue of getting the whole veil list to the number of spells a spellcaster could know: at 1st level you are absolutely more versatile than a wizard, period. But at 5th level it's likely the wizard could know spells to cover all the situations your veils do, and they'll be stronger on the cast even if they're not infinite. Accept the idea that if you DM is uncomforable you can and should make concessions: agree to a number of veils known and/or pay to access them, shave some number off of one that they think is a little too good.

Don't try to win, because you can't win against your group-mates. Convince them to work with you and figure out how you can both be happy.

[CasualViking]

DSP is not Mongoose. That's like never going out to eat again, because you had Taco Bell once.

[PsyBomb]

The Vizier is a support character first and foremost. He loves making things for friends, enabling them, or shaping the battlefield for their convenience. While he CAN put out very respectable striker numbers, that isn't his main goal.

Ah, I should probably introduce myself. I'm a writer for Dreamscarred Press, and got picked up for writing the guides to the three Akashic Mysteries classes. They're linked in my signature for ease of locating them. If you have any questions about the system, or DSP in general, feel free to ask.

I'm our main numbers guy and one of the main build breakers, my work led to several adjustments in these things. That's really the company policy, if something is broken we go and fix it. In at least one case (the Daevic), we've pushed publication dates rather than see something unbalanced go out the gate.

[John Longarrow]

First and foremost does your DM own a copy of the book you want to use? If not, there is much less likely they will OK materials.

From a DM's standpoint I've skipped entire books simply because they don't fit my setting, I don't own a copy, or because I'm not familiar enough with the rules to cater to one player when I have a lot of other stuff going on.

Check with your DM to see if this is a case of he doesn't like what you are asking to run or if there is another reason. If its because he's not familiar with the rules don't ask him to study all of them just so you can play your character. The DM is already spending a lot more time working on the game than most players, asking him to do extra work on your behalf would be problematic at the least.

Most important is to find out why your DM is reticent to allow you to bring in this book. It could be that it doesn't have so much to do with you as with another player. If he lets you bring in something unique, it would be bad form to not allow others to do the same. Going that direction may be enough of a headache to cause your DM to not run a game.

[Psyren]

You might just have to bite the bullet and stick with first party until (a) he trusts you more for a future campaign and/or (b) he feels more confident about GMing and thus feels like he can handle 3pp.

I agree with Fizban's approach, coupled maybe with buying him his own copy of the PDF (the SRD can be tough to learn a new system from) but at the end of the day, if he doesn't want to deal with it then you're pretty much stuck.

[legomaster00156]

On a tangentially related note, I'm not familiar with Mongoose. Can someone inform me what they did wrong?

[JoshuaZ]

On a tangentially related note, I'm not familiar with Mongoose. Can someone inform me what they did wrong?

Their material was well-edited (in the sense of few typos and contradictions), but their balance was frequently wildly off, often going in either direction but more often than not way too strong. Their Quintessential line had some interesting material but one had to examine it really carefully. This was probably made worse by some really uncomfortable sexism in some of their books.

[Ssalarn]

I don't know if directing him to some reviews of the product would help, but Endzeitgeist is a professional reviewer of table-top materials who rated Akashic Mysteries 5 stars + seal of approval and did an extensive review (http://endzeitgeist.com/akashic-mysteries/) of the product and its materials.

You can also direct your GM to the Akashic Mysteries product review page on Paizo's website (http://paizo.com/products/btpy9o6i?Akashic-Mysteries) where he can read other reviews from customers who have purchased the product.

[CasualViking]

Their material was well-edited (in the sense of few typos and contradictions), but their balance was frequently wildly off, often going in either direction but more often than not way too strong. Their Quintessential line had some interesting material but one had to examine it really carefully. This was probably made worse by some really uncomfortable sexism in some of their books.

It was the shoveliest of shovelware. I remember the big book of feats where I saw, on the same page, two different feats. Same prereqs, none of the were prereqs for others. They did the exact same thing, except one added a much bigger number than the other.

Same. Page.

[JoshuaZ]

It was the shoveliest of shovelware. I remember the big book of feats where I saw, on the same page, two different feats. Same prereqs, none of the were prereqs for others. They did the exact same thing, except one added a much bigger number than the other.

Same. Page.

Huh. I didn't notice any problems that were that egregious in any of their stuff I had. That's pretty appalling.

[legomaster00156]

Well, that sounds about as bad as Louis Porter Jr.'s "Unde-Feat-Able" book, where almost every feat is garbage and/or redundant with another feat. Without a doubt, the worst purchase I ever made for a Pathfinder book. :smallannoyed:

[CasualViking]

In my experience, there is DSP, Green Ronin, Drop Dead Studioes, and everything else is "Uncle Bob's Discount PDF shack".

[Ashtagon]

In my experience, there is DSP, Green Ronin, Drop Dead Studioes, and everything else is "Uncle Bob's Discount PDF shack".

I now have a name for my new rpg company.

[Gnaeus]

Daevic is very comparable in power to the first party Tier 3 half casters like magus. Viziers have a lot of abilities that LOOK really powerful, but a closer look shows that they are all things that can be done by a same level sorcerer without the most game breaking sorcerer powers.