Spellstoring Weapons - what to store?

[Khedrac]

OK - what are people's favorite spells to put in spellstoring weapons?

Yes, I am looking for a character I hope to play in a campaign that will have certain restrictions on sources, but that shouldn't stop people posting their favorites.

Currently I am thinking along the lines of a fell weaken scorching ray but I have a horrible feeling that it won't work as scorching ray is not a targeted spell. :smallmad:

(For those willing to make suggestions, my character will be able to field pretty much any 3.5 1st party spell not from a campaign-specific source, and use any meta-magic feat without cost reducers - yes, they are a chameleon.)

[khadgar567]

OK - what are people's favorite spells to put in spellstoring weapons?

Yes, I am looking for a character I hope to play in a campaign that will have certain restrictions on sources, but that shouldn't stop people posting their favorites.

Currently I am thinking along the lines of a fell weaken scorching ray but I have a horrible feeling that it won't work as scorching ray is not a targeted spell. :smallmad:

(For those willing to make suggestions, my character will be able to field pretty much any 3.5 1st party spell not from a campaign-specific source, and use any meta-magic feat without cost reducers - yes, they are a chameleon.)
depends on party and your class and how much troll you want to be

[Deophaun]

Currently I am thinking along the lines of a fell weaken scorching ray but I have a horrible feeling that it won't work as scorching ray is not a targeted spell. :smallmad:
Correct. If you could store scorching ray, you could store summon monster III. And as awesome as hitting someone so hard that a demon pops into existence sounds, alas it is unsupported.

Kelgore's firebolt would work, though.

[Khedrac]

Kelgore's firebolt would work, though.

5d6 damage is a start - but it is only 1st level, so how about empowered kfb? Actually given the relative rarities of resistance shocking grasp might be a better choice.

[Uncle Pine]

Bestow Curse is always nice.

[Tohsaka Rin]

Chain Lightning.

[Mr Adventurer]

Vampiric Touch is classic.

Edit: Fell Drain Magic Missile?

[JoshuaZ]

Spells don't need to be harmful. One can put spell-storing in a weapon that does non-lethal damage and store a cure spell in it. Or you can put the cure spell in a spell-storing small dagger. So you can stab your friends for healing.

[Flickerdart]

Spells don't need to be harmful. One can put spell-storing in a weapon that does non-lethal damage and store a cure spell in it. Or you can put the cure spell in a spell-storing small dagger. So you can stab your friends for healing.

This strategy works great if you have a party member optimized for many attacks per round. Give him a sack of blunted throwing daggers with heroism or something, and in the first round of combat he whips one at each party member.

Animate dead is a funny spell to put into a weapon that you use to deliver the final blow. Since the spell activates after the damage, you can zombify your foe as soon as you kill him.

[noce]

Shivering Touch is my favourite spell.
It makes easier to hit high DEX things and often paralyzes low DEX ones.
Bonus points if you're dual wielding spellstoring weapons, for an average of 21 Dexterity damage.
It works wonders coupled with Grease, since lower DEX means lower Balance.

Generally speaking, I think no save spells are better for spellstoring weapons.

[Morphic tide]

Well, I'd go with True Strike for a dedicated sniping weapon, like a Keen Heavy Crossbow with a bundle of stuff for improving the rate and effect of critical hits.

For Spiked Chains, Enlarge Person/Divine Might is probably one of the better ones, as it improves the main point of Spiked Chains. Namely, the reach-without-blind-spot. And you also have the size bonus to damage.

Early on, before you have the gold for multiple weapons, Keen Edge can be helpful. Heck, Keen Edge can be helpful for any build that frequently has two weapons, as it increases your effective enhancement limit by one.

(Greater) Magic Weapon is a rather obvious one, letting you cast a very good buff during the first round of combat through conditions like "using two-handed weapons/heavy armor" Great pick for gish builds with access to the spell.

Later on, when you get the needed spells, do Arcane Fusion/Anyspell if possible. The reason is that it thoroughly violates the point of Spell Storing by letting you store spells that let you cast other spells. The Wizard version, Mnemonic Enhancer, is a poor substitute for them, although it can be cast by either if you somehow make it count as a Sorcerer spell known and get it a +1 metamagic.

[JoshuaZ]

Well, I'd go with True Strike for a dedicated sniping weapon, like a Keen Heavy Crossbow with a bundle of stuff for improving the rate and effect of critical hits.


This doesn't work since True Strike is a personal spell. Depending on your reading, either True Strike cannot be stored, or the effect would give the injured being the benefit of True Strike. Similar remarks apply to your other suggestions.

[Aimeryan]

Well, I'd go with True Strike for a dedicated sniping weapon, like a Keen Heavy Crossbow with a bundle of stuff for improving the rate and effect of critical hits.

For Spiked Chains, Enlarge Person/Divine Might is probably one of the better ones, as it improves the main point of Spiked Chains. Namely, the reach-without-blind-spot. And you also have the size bonus to damage.

Early on, before you have the gold for multiple weapons, Keen Edge can be helpful. Heck, Keen Edge can be helpful for any build that frequently has two weapons, as it increases your effective enhancement limit by one.

(Greater) Magic Weapon is a rather obvious one, letting you cast a very good buff during the first round of combat through conditions like "using two-handed weapons/heavy armor" Great pick for gish builds with access to the spell.

Later on, when you get the needed spells, do Arcane Fusion/Anyspell if possible. The reason is that it thoroughly violates the point of Spell Storing by letting you store spells that let you cast other spells. The Wizard version, Mnemonic Enhancer, is a poor substitute for them, although it can be cast by either if you somehow make it count as a Sorcerer spell known and get it a +1 metamagic.

Spell Storing weapons cast the spell on the creature hit. You may be thinking of a Ring of Spell Storing, instead.

Also of note, if using Psionic/Magic Transparency then you should be able to store a power instead.

[Calthropstu]

Orb of fire/acid etc is a good one. Another good one is suggestion.
Also, if you can get access to a psion, their 1st-3rd powers have no damage cap.

[Khedrac]

Chain Lightning.
Not a 3rd level spell for anyone I believe.


Vampiric Touch is classic.

Edit: Fell Drain Magic Missile?
Yes, both of those are on my list of possibles, nice to know the classics are classic for good reason.


Shivering Touch is my favourite spell.
It makes easier to hit high DEX things and often paralyzes low DEX ones.
Bonus points if you're dual wielding spellstoring weapons, for an average of 21 Dexterity damage.
It works wonders coupled with Grease, since lower DEX means lower Balance.

Generally speaking, I think no save spells are better for spellstoring weapons.
Agreed, agreed. One problem with Shivering Touch is that it is so good it might well get banned. I will chat with my DM about it.

[Morphic tide]

Spell Storing weapons cast the spell on the creature hit. You may be thinking of a Ring of Spell Storing, instead.

Oh, in that case... Well, the Anyspell/Arcane Fusion remark largely still stands, as the idea was to use Anyspell to get literally any valid Arcane spell into the thing on one Spell Storing slot and Arcane Fusion is probably stored with the variable "spells being cast" pre-selected, so you can have, say, Shocking Grasp and Vampiric Touch(with a +1 metamagic of some sort) applied to one Spell Storing slot.

[Troacctid]

One of my personal favorites is Command. I like the flavor. Especially if your weapon is a whip.


Vampiric Touch is classic.
Well, that's why we have Bloodstone weapons.

[Aimeryan]

Orb of fire/acid etc is a good one. Another good one is suggestion.
Also, if you can get access to a psion, their 1st-3rd powers have no damage cap.

The equivalent is a power up to 5 power points; you can see this from the Magic Item Compendium, page 40; Power Storing.

[flappeercraft]

My favorites are Shivering touch as previously mentioned for the same reasons

Empowered Shocking grasp can help do some good extra damage especially if your DM allows spell storing bolts/arrows

Magical backlash can do some good damage against persistomancers if they are not prepared for it. 2 extra damage for every spell level added up of all spells, this seems a good choice if your DM uses casters a lot as it isn't only the highest level spell that counts but every single buff or debuff it has currently affecting it in the form of a spell.

Ghoul touch is also a good one, No save paralysis against Humanoids? Yes please. Of course paralysis is easy to become immune to but most players and DM's I've seen overlook it completely and work amazingly since when you are not immune to paralysis and just become paralyzed for 1d6+2 rounds you are screwed regardless of what you are.

If your dm allows make Aurorum Spell storing bolts/arrows and make the action economy blow up the encounters. Even more if your bow/crossbow has the Splitting property.

[Âmesang]

Chain Lightning.
Not a 3rd level spell for anyone I believe.
With that said, would it be too much to have an improved spell storing (up to 6th) as a +3 and a greater spell storing (up to 9th) as a +5?

[Flickerdart]

Magical backlash can do some good damage against persistomancers if they are not prepared for it. 2 extra damage for every spell level added up of all spells, this seems a good choice if your DM uses casters a lot as it isn't only the highest level spell that counts but every single buff or debuff it has currently affecting it in the form of a spell.
Nice find! Sadly most persistomancers are clerics and have a high Fort save, but Mettle is relatively uncommon so you still get to ping them for spell levels' worth of damage.

[flappeercraft]

Nice find! Sadly most persistomancers are clerics and have a high Fort save, but Mettle is relatively uncommon so you still get to ping them for spell levels' worth of damage.

Another good one but exclusive to archers is Spellslayer arrow, it deals an extra 1d4 damage per spell in effect instead of per spell level but it has no save. It is cast as swift action on an arrow. It can be used in conjunction with Magical backlash if you can cast it (Assassin 2/Ranger 2/Consecrated Harrier 2/Justice of weald and woe), if you have access to custom magic items to cast it would be the second best and the next best would be an Eternal wand if you can use those.

Edit: But what about Incantatrices? They are also somewhat common

[Calthropstu]

Another good one is dispel magic.
Yes, I am a big fan of weapons that dispel

[Khedrac]

My favorites are Shivering touch as previously mentioned for the same reasons

Empowered Shocking grasp can help do some good extra damage especially if your DM allows spell storing bolts/arrows

Magical backlash can do some good damage against persistomancers if they are not prepared for it. 2 extra damage for every spell level added up of all spells, this seems a good choice if your DM uses casters a lot as it isn't only the highest level spell that counts but every single buff or debuff it has currently affecting it in the form of a spell.

Ghoul touch is also a good one, No save paralysis against Humanoids? Yes please. Of course paralysis is easy to become immune to but most players and DM's I've seen overlook it completely and work amazingly since when you are not immune to paralysis and just become paralyzed for 1d6+2 rounds you are screwed regardless of what you are.

If your dm allows make Aurorum Spell storing bolts/arrows and make the action economy blow up the encounters. Even more if your bow/crossbow has the Splitting property.

Sound Lance looks like it is one of the best for pure damage, but ghoul touch in a spell-storing weapon is obscene. What's better (if not very necessary) is that it can be extended and still fit in the weapon...

Thank-you for this.

[Quertus]

So, you guys seem to be reading spell storing the same way I do. However, I was in a group that insisted the following:

Cure Serious Wounds is a 3rd level spell. Maximized Empowered Repeat Cure Serious Wounds may (or may not) require a higher level slot to cast, but it is still technically a 3rd level spell, and thus able to be stored in a Spell Storing weapon.

I couldn't prove them wrong. Are there clear rules which invalidate such tactics?

[Kelb_Panthera]

So, you guys seem to be reading spell storing the same way I do. However, I was in a group that insisted the following:

Cure Serious Wounds is a 3rd level spell. Maximized Empowered Repeat Cure Serious Wounds may (or may not) require a higher level slot to cast, but it is still technically a 3rd level spell, and thus able to be stored in a Spell Storing weapon.

I couldn't prove them wrong. Are there clear rules which invalidate such tactics?

While I certainly expect such a ruling whenever the matter comes up, technically they're right. Metamagic doesn't change the level of the spell for most interactions.

From a logic standpoint, the spell storing enhancment is probably based on the sheer amount of magical energy it can store and while metamagic doesn't increase the complexity (spell level for interactions and key ability requirement) it certainly changes the amount of magical energy (spell slot) required.

RAW-wise though, it's strictly a DM call since empowered cure light wounds could be described accurately as either a third or first level spell.

[flappeercraft]

So, you guys seem to be reading spell storing the same way I do. However, I was in a group that insisted the following:

Cure Serious Wounds is a 3rd level spell. Maximized Empowered Repeat Cure Serious Wounds may (or may not) require a higher level slot to cast, but it is still technically a 3rd level spell, and thus able to be stored in a Spell Storing weapon.

I couldn't prove them wrong. Are there clear rules which invalidate such tactics?

I just checked the SRD and I found this "As a spellcaster’s knowledge of magic grows, she can learn to cast spells in ways slightly different from the ways in which the spells were originally designed or learned. Preparing and casting a spell in such a way is harder than normal but, thanks to metamagic feats, at least it is possible. Spells modified by a metamagic feat use a spell slot higher than normal. This does not change the level of the spell, so the DC for saving throws against it does not go up."
"A spell storing weapon allows a spellcaster to store a single targeted spell of up to 3rd level in the weapon."

By RAW you can, by RAI I doubt it.

Edit: Ninja'd

[Quertus]

technically they're right.


Spells modified by a metamagic feat use a spell slot higher than normal. This does not change the level of the spell, so the DC for saving throws against it does not go up."
"A spell storing weapon allows a spellcaster to store a single targeted spell of up to 3rd level in the weapon."

So, RAW, Empower Maximize Twin Repeating... whatever spell. K. Thanks.

[icefractal]

Yeah, RAW you can stick as much metamagic as you can manage - store an entire Mailman blast in there, even.

That rule (that metamagic doesn't increase spell level) is one I find kind of hilarious. In order to prevent what they perceived as an exploit (Empowered Fireball > Delayed Blast Fireball), they opened up several much bigger exploits and whole bunch of annoying to adjudicate rules interactions. And in fact, Delayed Blast Fireball (and most of the high level Evocation stuff) is too weak, so the correct solution would have just been to buff it.

I think in any campaign going forward, I'll use that as a house-rule: metamagic raises spell level, for all purposes. Heighten Spell would have to do something else then, I guess - maybe boost CL for the purpose of breaking through SR.

[noce]

I think in any campaign going forward, I'll use that as a house-rule: metamagic raises spell level, for all purposes. Heighten Spell would have to do something else then, I guess - maybe boost CL for the purpose of breaking through SR.

Or just remove Heighten completely.
You can prepare/cast a spell with a higher slot as a default option, make that option raise DC.
Basically, both with and without metamagic, the spell gets the DC of the slot level it is being cast with.

[Mr Adventurer]

Sure, let's buff spellcasters.

[Âmesang]

Effects of Metamagic Feats on a Spell: In all ways, a metamagic spell operates at its original spell level, even though it is prepared and cast as a higher-level spell. Saving throw modifications are not changed unless stated otherwise in the feat description. The modifications made by these feats only apply to spells cast directly by the feat user. A spellcaster can't use a metamagic feat to alter a spell being cast from a wand, scroll, or other device.

Multiple Metamagic Feats on a Spell: A spellcaster can apply multiple metamagic feats to a single spell. Changes to its level are cumulative. A silent, stilled version of charm person, for example, would be prepared and cast as a 3rd-level spell (a 1st-level spell increased by one spell level for each of the metamagic feats). You can't apply the same metamagic feta more than once to a single spell (for instance, you can't cast a twice-empowered magic missile to get +100% damage).

Magic Items and Metamagic Spells: With the right item creation feat, you can store a metamagic version of a spell in a scroll, potion, or wand. Level limits for potions and wands apply to the spell's higher spell level (after the application of the metamagic feat). A character doesn't need the metamagic feat to activate an item storing a metamagic version of the spell.
Now I'm not sure what the designers' own intent was, but I'm fine with houseruling that metamagic'd spells count as a level equal to the spell slot expended for the purpose of magic item qualifications; i.e. you could craft a wand of maximized magic missile because it would effectively be a "4th-level spell" for the purpose of crafting (but still behave as 1st-level against its targets), but you couldn't craft a wand of maximized scorching ray because it would effectively be a "5th-level spell," one level beyond a wand's limit.

(Granted the only metamagic'd wand examples in the DUNGEON MASTER'S Guide are those involving Heighten Spell, which changes spell level for all purposes.)

[Stewzors]

Certainly not the most OP option, but I'm a big fan of Reduce Person in a spell storing weapon.

[Zombimode]

Ghoul touch is also a good one, No save paralysis against Humanoids? Yes please. Of course paralysis is easy to become immune to but most players and DM's I've seen overlook it completely and work amazingly since when you are not immune to paralysis and just become paralyzed for 1d6+2 rounds you are screwed regardless of what you are.

How do you figure that Ghoul Touch offers no save?
It clearly says "Fortitude negates" in the "Saving Throw" line of the spell description.

If you argue that the only applies to the stench effect, the line would read something like "None; and Fortitude negates, see text".

[Khedrac]

How do you figure that Ghoul Touch offers no save?
It clearly says "Fortitude negates" in the "Saving Throw" line of the spell description.

If you argue that the only applies to the stench effect, the line would read something like "None; and Fortitude negates, see text".
Good point, and well that blows that idea out of the water. Back to things like fell weaken shocking grasp then.

[Telok]

Ego whip
Ectoplasmic Cocoon
Empathic transfer, hostile
Lesser geas

[flappeercraft]

How do you figure that Ghoul Touch offers no save?
It clearly says "Fortitude negates" in the "Saving Throw" line of the spell description.

If you argue that the only applies to the stench effect, the line would read something like "None; and Fortitude negates, see text".

Well according to the spell description in the SRD "Imbuing you with negative energy, this spell allows you to paralyze a single living humanoid for the duration of the spell with a successful melee touch attack." it indicates no save but later on the description the stench effect comes up which says "Additionally, the paralyzed subject exudes a carrion stench that causes all living creatures (except you) in a 10-foot-radius spread to become sickened (Fortitude negates). A neutralize poison spell removes the effect from a sickened creature, and creatures immune to poison are unaffected by the stench." what it could mean is that it negates the effect for other creatures and also due to it starting with additionally on the stench by definition of the word itself it means in addition to the first effect meaning it is a separate effect of the spell which is what can be negates by the fortitude save. Also it seems weird that the writers only put the fort negates line in the description by the stench effect and not the touch.

[Telok]

The pattern for spells is that the saving throw line in the stat block refers to the whole spell unless it tells you to see the text of the spell. Additional saving throws or special circumstances are covered in the spell's text.

[flappeercraft]

The pattern for spells is that the saving throw line in the stat block refers to the whole spell unless it tells you to see the text of the spell. Additional saving throws or special circumstances are covered in the spell's text.

True but sometimes they make mistakes similar to this. Maybe not a mistake. Ill check in Dragon magazine if someone asked about this