Whip + crossbow build help

[retaliation08]

I will be joining a 5e party going through Curse of Strahd here in a month or two. I want to play an Indiana jones/ van helsing type and wield a whip and handcrossbows.

The DM says he will allow whips to make a trip attack that works mechanically like a shove to prone. He mentioned possibly having advantage as well.

I know I will want the crossbow expert feat for sure, and maybe sharpshooter, but I am not sure which classes or other feats I will need to accomplish the character that I want.

I was thinking rogue for expertise in athletics to make trips and then land sneak attacks with my bonus crossbow attack. Unfortunately, rogues aren't whip proficient.

I would also like something like ritual casting to fill out the character and offer more utility.

I have considered dipping, cleric, warlock, and wizard. I don't want to be too MAD though with strength, dex, con, and a casting stat and needing feats.

Rolled stats with human variant are 18,16,16,13,10,10 to move around where needed.

Any ideas on making this character effective?

[Razuchee]

Why not battlemaster fighter? It provides you with an early extra ASI, has all the weapons and multiple attacks plus action surge.
As Rogueish archetype, I would recommend thief if you want a truly Indiana Jonesesque Character, with expertise in history.

[Arkhios]

Might I suggest trying out the Inquisitor in my signature for that concept. (obviously it's homebrew, but I would really like to have playtest feedback for it!)

Indiana Jones, to me, is very roguish, and Van Helsing is kind of a divine slayer of all things unnatural (which the Inquisitor is intended to be, despite it's name carrying a strong wibe for a Spanish Inquisition and the like)

human variant stats 18,16,16,13,10,10

Str 16
Dex 18
Con 13
Int 10
Wis 16
Cha 10

Variant Human Feat: Crossbow Expert, followed by perhaps Resilient Constitution at 4th level, one level after your divine spellcasting kicks in.
Sharpshooter works well after that at 8th level, and max up dex at 10th. Beyond that, it's really up to you in my opinion.

[retaliation08]

I did briefly consider fighter, but there is a lot of waste or missing stuff like wasted armour proficiencies, no expertise, few skills, little synergy with whip trips.

In addition we are a party of four. One person wants to play a sneaky person who heals (she is new) so probably ranger for her. One other guy only plays fighters (I hope he decides paladin for this module for the off heals) . I'm not sure what the last guy is playing, but hopefully a caster.

I am trying to combine support casting, and out of combat utility into this character and I am struggling to make that work with fighter.

Maybe you have a suggested build based on fighter base?

[retaliation08]

Might I suggest trying out the Inquisitor in my signature for that concept. (obviously it's homebrew, but I would really like to have playtest feedback for it!)


holy cap that homebrew is perfect. I will have to run it past the dm. It is his first time, but he seemed open to whip home brew and has allowed all 5e published (UA included). I will let you know if he approves!

Still open to builds in case the home brew is a no go :)

[Arkhios]

holy cap that homebrew is perfect. I will have to run it past the dm. It is his first time, but he seemed open to whip home brew and has allowed all 5e published (UA included). I will let you know if he approves!

Still open to builds in case the home brew is a no go :)

Thanks! I'm looking forward to hear it.

In the meanwhile, here's another idea:

Thief/Cleric (War Domain for the Martial weapon proficiency, though it might need some imagination to fit in the concept)
(fun fact, when I was building the sub-class I suggested before, I made it basically by adding up rogue/cleric levels at appropriate levels to be somewhat equal with Arcane Trickster):

With the stat allocation as in my earlier post...

1 Thief1 Human (Crossbow Expert), Sneak Attack 1d6, Expertise
2 Thief2 Cunning Action
3 Cleric1 Spells (1st level)
4 Thief3 Fast Hands, Second-Story Work, Sneak Attack 2d6
5 Thief4 ASI (Resilient Con +1 -> 14)
6 Cleric2 Channel Divinity 1/rest
7 Cleric3 Spells (2nd level)
8 Thief5 Uncanny Dodge, Sneak Attack 3d6
9 Thief6 Expertise
10 Thief7 Sneak Attack 4d6

Edit: oh, right. i forgot that Curse of Strahd goes up to as far as level 10 only. Regardless, the above build should work alright anyway.

[Razuchee]

What are your stats without Vuman? Or is Vuman as race set?

If you want to be a skill mongering Support caster, why not take a Bard? This is literally the guy for this Job, take Valour and get proficinecy for free. Or train it in your downtime. The Bard gets really everything you need. Or if you want more support casting go Lore, practice with a whip in your downtime, and take some levels in rogue, if you really need the damage from snack-attack.

I assume you Start at level 1 until 10?

Str: 16
Dex: 18
Con: 13
Int: 10
Wis: 16
Cha: 10

feat: Crossbowexpert. with this I'd probably go thief-Rogue only, and would just train the whip in my downtime, until I am proficient, Proficiency is not that much of a bonus at low levels, and if you have not mastered the whip by level 5, sue your DM. It's not like you cannot use it unproficient.

Considering waste: What waste? Medium armour and shields? Ask the guy wielding a greatsword in Heavy armor if he cares about shields and medium armor.

I would also not recommend more than 3 levels of Fighter if you only play until 10th, you get a fighting style, acrtion surge and those sweet sweet superiority dice. Which would have a rather high DC as your dex is very high. You'd also be able to do extra damage every time you trip an enemy, and they recharge on a short rest. Of course, Second wind won't be that great, but it can and will save your life.

The main problem I see is that most multiclasses not start to shine until higher levels, but I'm no expert on games that end before 17th, and that you probably want a little much, with Spellcasting, Skillmongering AND heavy hitting. But if you have a Paladin as well as a Ranger, I would consider skipping the support casting, as both of those classes, can do it better than a multiclass at that level probably could. You could also consider dropping the heavy hitting as paladins are the masters of dealing all the damage right now. Then I'd consider an arcane trickster if you really want to cast stuff.

[retaliation08]

Considering waste: What waste? Medium armour and shields? Ask the guy wielding a greatsword in Heavy armor if he cares about shields and medium armor.



I meant it would be waste on this character as he only needs light armour and whip proficiencies.

Vuman was for the feat.

[Arkhios]

I meant it would be waste on this character as he only needs light armour and whip proficiencies.

Vuman was for the feat.

Razuchee does have a point though. A Fighter in heavy armor wielding a greatsword would agree that his light and medium armor, as well as shield proficiencies go to waste, since he's not using any of them.

[retaliation08]

Ah, I see the point now. The battlemaster route would be good. That was my initial thought when I had this idea, but I don't really want to be the second fighter in a 4 man party lol

[Razuchee]

You get it for free, so who cares if you don't use it, right? I really like The War cleric/rogue build, although it only has minor spellcasting. Might work well.

À props war cleric: Wasn't Indiana Jones in the army before he became a professor?

[Arkhios]

À props war cleric: Wasn't Indiana Jones in the army before he became a professor?

I think so, yes. Could work. Also, I could see a kind of a militant order among a deity that would train for hunting down enemies of faith (if the Inquisitor as suggested isn't allowed by your DM, War Domain could be justified).

As for with which class you want to start is up to you. Rogue gets a few more skills, but a cleric gets the proficiencies you wanted. Rogue has Dexterity and Intelligence saving throw proficiencies, but cleric has Wisdom and Charisma.

I haven't played the Curse of Strahd, but I would imagine that Wisdom saves are pretty much on demand from early on!

As for further details regarding the character, if you start as a rogue, you could pick the Acolyte Background and learn Religion that way. Or if you start as a cleric, you could pick the Soldier background with the Scout Specialty. Either way, you could pretty easily steer towards the other class in terms of multiclass. If your DM demands justification or anything.

[retaliation08]

All good advice . Right now I've written up rogue 1 with acolyte and crossbow feat. Planning to take inquisitor if DM allows.

Also I just realized I don't really need whip proficiency as I will only be using it with athletics to prone enemies as per the DMs homebrew.

That opens up a lot of options for various cleric domains .

[Arkhios]

All good advice . Right now I've written up rogue 1 with acolyte and crossbow feat. Planning to take inquisitor if DM allows.

Also I just realized I don't really need whip proficiency as I will only be using it with athletics to prone enemies as per the DMs homebrew.

That opens up a lot of options for various cleric domains .

Oh, that's very true. Trickery maybe? Works nicely with rogue, imho.

[flynnhornfettle]

Maybe just talk to your dm about the whip prof? I played a similar pc several months ago, vuman rogue with whip, hand crossbow, and crossbow expert at lvl 1. My dm let me give up prof with longsword in exchange for whip.

[The Shadowdove]

Straight thief rogue. At most fighter dip.

Both characters utilize items in a strategic and clever manner as much as they use their weapons.

Van helsing didn't just go into combat guns ablazing. He prepared for different foes accordingly, often making sure the terrain favored him. Sometimes even laying traps. Then he went in like a Rambo style badass.

Potions, holy water, alchemist fire, weapon coatings , poisons, etc.

He also used more of a light crossbow than a hand crossbow. With various ammunition to also handle different foes. Consider crossbow bolts with screw in tips that hold vials of useful liquids, or on hit spells.

Indiana Jones is a roguish dexterity based scrapper with knowledge proficiencies. He was a sharpshooter as well, although he didn't primarily dual wield.

You can just straight rogue it with a small dip in something if you must. All of the fun factor stuff is achieved through backstory and skill proficiencies.


Consider investigation, religion, and history.

Definitely stealth.definitely athletics or acrobatics.

Perhaps sleight of hand. Insight, and perception have their obvious merits.

I'd go persuasion over deception and both over intimidate.

[retaliation08]

I will definately be picking up some flasks to throw down and possibly see about holy oil or other non poisonous compounds for arrows.

Rule question. How does fast hands from Thief rogue affect throwing flasks or applying compounds to bolts?