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clash
2017-01-31, 09:07 AM
So I tried to do a sniper rogue and the general feedback was that it would work better as a ranger. So using the ua ranger this is my work so far on a sniper archetype. Keep in mind it doesn't get extra attack. PEACH.

Sniper Revised Ranger:
Ranger sniper:
3 Overwatch: Your sniper training has taught you to be ever watchful and take advantage of when opponents let their guard down. Anytime an opponent moves out of an allies reach and you have a ranged weapon equipped you may make an opportunity attack against them as a reaction.
5 Take Aim: As a bonus action you can take aim against an enemy. If the target ends its turn within 5ft of where it started on your next turn your first ranged attack against the target has advantage and deals an additional 2d10 damage.
7 Low profile: You have learned the best way to survive is to stay low to the ground. You suffer no disadvantage on ranged attack rolls while prone and are treated as having 3/4 cover against ranged attacks.
11 Piercing shot: As an action you can make a piercing shot. A piercing shot is so powerful that it goes straight through creatures and may hit targets on the other side. Make one attack roll as part of this attack. Every creature in a line in front of you whose ac is lower than your attack roll is hit by the attack.
15 Back on your feet: Constantly switching between standing and prone to has made you adept at regaining your footing. Standing up from prone cost no movement and additionally when somone makes a melee attack against you, you may stand up immediately as a reaction.

Updated with major overhaul of abilities to make it more strategic/thematic.

JNAProductions
2017-01-31, 02:02 PM
Head Shot is Smite, but makes no sense fluffwise. Mechanically, I guess it's okay?

Take Aim is ridiculous. That's an extra 4d8 DPR, for free.

Keep Your Distance is likewise too powerful. It's a lot of free movement.

Piercing Shot and Return Fire are fine (though Return Fire should have SOME cost for throwing it back, like the Monk does) but the first three are OP.

clash
2017-01-31, 02:10 PM
Headshot I wasnt sure about, I might try for something else. I liked it because it gave a useful way to use spells when your bonus action will be mostly spent using take aim.

Take aim is only an extra 2d8 dmg, it requires a bonus action and it comes at the cost of not getting extra attack.

Keep your distance I could try toning down, but it is only an additional 20ft of movement at the most and consumes your reaction. And is only useful when you take damage.

The justification for return fire is that you get it 12 levels later then the monk and it only works on the type of ammunition for the bow you have equipped. There isnt really a good resource system for throwing it back so I might remove that part of it altogether if it is OP.

JNAProductions
2017-01-31, 02:14 PM
Take Aim has no restriction that it's only one attack. Fix that.

clash
2017-01-31, 02:18 PM
As the archetype only gets one attack per turn I didn't think it was necessary to limit the number of times it applied. Edited Take aim to only apply 1/turn to prevent multiclassing abuse

JNAProductions
2017-01-31, 02:20 PM
Rangers get Extra Attack as a base feature. Not an archetype bonus.

clash
2017-01-31, 02:25 PM
As I indicated in my op this is built for the UA ranger which gets extra attack as an archetype feature. I realize I want clear enough on that and have updated the title to reflect that

Deleted
2017-01-31, 03:32 PM
So I tried to do a sniper rogue and the general feedback was that it would work better as a ranger. So using the ua ranger this is my work so far on a sniper archetype. Keep in mind it doesn't get extra attack. PEACH.

Sniper Revised Ranger:
3 Head shot: By using magic to guide your bow you can strike with incredible force and accuracy. When you hit an enemy with a ranged weapon attack you may expend 1 spell slot to deal additional damage to the creature. You deal 2d8 additional damage + 1d8 damage for each spell level above first to a max of 5d8 additional damage.
5 Take Aim: As a bonus action you can take aim against an enemy that is at least 30ft away from you. If you take aim you suffer no disadvantage for attacking a target in 1/2 or 3/4 cover and once per turn may deal an additional 2d8 damage if you hit it with a ranged attack.
7 Keep your distance: As a reaction to getting hit by a melee attack you may immediately move up to half your speed. This movement does not provoke opportunity attacks from the creature that triggered the movement.
11 Piercing shot: As an action you can make a piercing shot. A piercing shot is so powerful that it goes straight through creatures and may hit targets on the other side. Make one attack roll as part of this attack. Every creature in a line in front of you whose ac is lower than your attack roll is hit by the attack.
15 Return fire: You can use your reaction to deflect or catch the missile when you are hit by a ranged weapon attack. When you do so, the damage you take from the attack is reduced by 1d10 + your Dexterity modifier + your ranger level. If you reduce the damage to 0, you can catch the missile if it is small enough for you to hold in one hand and you have at least one hand free. If you catch a missile in this way and are holding a weapon capable of firing the ammunition, you can make a ranged attack with the weapon or piece of ammunition you just caught, as part of the same reaction.

The issue I have with this is that... All it gives me is damage.

And then it gives me a level 3 feature at level 15... I just don't see why I wouldn't go the typical archer route. You don't have to deal the most damage ever to keep up with the game, you just need to do enough.

You keep pouring on more and more damage and I think if you focused your core of the sniper on one damage mechanic and then gave diverse and alternative features to the rest of it, your homebrew would work out better.

Keep your distance is a good idea, though I don't think of snipers as acrobatic or fast. They take their time and set up and when they are ready, they take the shot.

Take Aim is a good start, but bonus damage is not needed and makes the class feel a bit heavy handed on damage when combined with all the other damage dealing abilities.

Edit

Also... I think take aim could just be a bonus action that allows you to ignore all but full cover OR (because some DMs don't use cover... at all...) remove one source of disadvantage from your attack. If you have multiple sources (upside down and blindfolded) then you would still have disadvantage but if you were just blindfolded... You would have a normal attack.

clash
2017-02-02, 01:51 PM
Thanks for your feedback!

I actually based the outline of abilities off of the existing archetypes. At level 3 they get a damaging ability. At level 5 they get another damaging ability. Level 7 is defensive. Level 11 is aoe and level 15 is defensive. If I give enough damage on one of the abilities to keep up with the other archetypes then add in utility, it will outshine the other archetypes. If I let the damage drop back in order to add utility it likely wont be capable in battle as rangers(particularly revised rangers) get most of their damage output from archetypes. So it is a ahrd thing to balance but I am open to suggestions on replacement abilities.

As for take aim, I feel like no one is going to waste a bonus action to ignore disadvantage for cover. Further that doesn't come close to competing with extra attack. If I do remove the damage from take aim, I need a considerable source of damage contribution for it to be viable. I had thought about moving take aim to third level as a lesser effect but I wasn't sure what kind of damaging ability to add to level 5 instead.

I will try to come up with something more thematic for the defensive abilities and switch arround some of the damaging stuff to see if I can add more utility. Any suggestions are appreciated. As for why you play this instead of a hunter ranger, is if your interested in the typical sniper one hit ko type of route as opposed to rapidly firing off arrows. That is why I felt revised ranger was important in order to achieve this archetype.

GalacticAxekick
2017-02-02, 02:21 PM
Thanks for your feedback!

I actually based the outline of abilities off of the existing archetypes. At level 3 they get a damaging ability. At level 5 they get another damaging ability. Level 7 is defensive. Level 11 is aoe and level 15 is defensive. If I give enough damage on one of the abilities to keep up with the other archetypes then add in utility, it will outshine the other archetypes. If I let the damage drop back in order to add utility it likely wont be capable in battle as rangers(particularly revised rangers) get most of their damage output from archetypes. So it is a ahrd thing to balance but I am open to suggestions on replacement abilities.The problem is that you're giving raw damage with no thematic or strategic strings. The level 3 feature is just spending a slot o hit harder. The level 5 feature is hitting harder for free. Level 11's piercing shot is cool because it changes how the sniper plays, asking then to reposition in search if that perfect shot. But the other two? Just numerical upgrades.

Maybe grant trick shots. Ranged shoves, disarms, "grapples" done by pinning the foe.

Maybe grant parabolic and curving shots that can ignore total cover and that don't betray the sniper's position in stealth.

Maybe grant ranged opportunity attacks so the sniper can effectively control space.

Maybe grant armour-piercing shots that use Dex saves instead of attack rolls.

Maybe grant immense bonus damage or accuracy to readied attacks, so if the sniper predicts a target's next move, they can score an easy and devastating hit.


I will try to come up with something more thematic for the defensive abilities and switch arround some of the damaging stuff to see if I can add more utility.
When someone you can see makes a ranged attack against you, you may shoot their projectile from the air. As a reaction you add your proficiency to AC.

Or when someone you can see makes a ranged attack against you, you may use your reaction to move up to half your speed and Hide.

Or when someone you can see makes an attack against you or an effect demands you make a dexterity saving throw, you may use your reaction to first make one ranged weapon attack against your foe. (Combined with a ranged Disarm/Shove and spellcasters' weakness regarding concentration, you may prevent the attack outright)

clash
2017-02-08, 09:24 AM
It's been a while but updated with major overhaul:

Changed out Head shot for Overwatch
Changed the way take aim works
Changed out Keep your distance for Low Profile
Changed out Return fire for Back On your Feet

Let me know what you think of the changes.

Deleted
2017-02-08, 11:01 AM
So I tried to do a sniper rogue and the general feedback was that it would work better as a ranger. So using the ua ranger this is my work so far on a sniper archetype. Keep in mind it doesn't get extra attack. PEACH.

Sniper Revised Ranger:
Ranger sniper:
3 Overwatch: Your sniper training has taught you to be ever watchful and take advantage of when opponents let their guard down. Anytime an opponent moves out of an allies reach and you have a ranged weapon equipped you may make an opportunity attack against them as a reaction.
5 Take Aim: As a bonus action you can take aim against an enemy. If the target ends its turn within 5ft of where it started on your next turn your first ranged attack against the target has advantage and deals an additional 2d10 damage.
7 Low profile: You have learned the best way to survive is to stay low to the ground. You suffer no disadvantage on ranged attack rolls while prone and are treated as having full cover against ranged attacks.
11 Piercing shot: As an action you can make a piercing shot. A piercing shot is so powerful that it goes straight through creatures and may hit targets on the other side. Make one attack roll as part of this attack. Every creature in a line in front of you whose ac is lower than your attack roll is hit by the attack.
15 Back on your feet: Constantly switching between standing and prone to has made you adept at regaining your footing. Standing up from prone cost no movement and additionally when somone makes a melee attack against you, you may stand up immediately as a reaction.

Updated with major overhaul of abilities to make it more strategic/thematic.

Full cover against ranged attacks is super powerful. Especially at level 7.

This means you can't be targeted by ranged attacks or spells that have a ranged attack roll. This is an immunity! A huge one! Like... wow!

I would reduce this down to, at most, 3/4th's cover (+5 AC/Dex Save). Maybe even just say partial cover (+2 AC/Dex Save)

clash
2017-02-08, 12:57 PM
Full cover against ranged attacks is super powerful. Especially at level 7.

This means you can't be targeted by ranged attacks or spells that have a ranged attack roll. This is an immunity! A huge one! Like... wow!

I would reduce this down to, at most, 3/4th's cover (+5 AC/Dex Save). Maybe even just say partial cover (+2 AC/Dex Save)

Ya I wasn't sure about that. You already have advantage against ranged attack so I didn't consider it a huge increase at the time, especially considering you have to grant all melee attacks advantage against you and need to spend half your movement to move from the position until level 15. Didn't consider the spell attacks though. I will reduce to 3/4 cover keeping in mind that since it only works on ranged attacks the +5 dex is inapplicable.

Nimlouth
2017-02-08, 01:11 PM
It is going really well by now.

But the Take Aim still is dealing free damage which kind of doesn't makes sense.

I would change it to deal critical hit damage in addition to the advantage on the attack roll.

"you take your time, you hit and you land a devastating shot on the enemy"

Cheers!

clash
2017-02-08, 01:34 PM
Mechanically it makes sense. Extra attack is free, no cost damage, that admittedly works better with many of a rangers features for even more damage. Hunters mark being one of them. I am adding strategic but easy damage to try to stay competitive. Weighing the restrictions for getting it against the added advantage on the attack. I estimated 2d10 ~ 11 against 1d10 longbow +5 possible mod damage ~10.5 but more stable dmg (min dmg 6 as opposed to 2) and likely will get hunters mark twice as opposed to once adding another 3.5 dmg to the estimate for 14 and requires no bonus action and has no delay and cant be broken by an enemy moving. If anything it might be a little on the weak side and it would be great to get feedback on that

I had thought about dealing critical hit damage but this becomes absolutely broken when combined with classes that can capitalize on critical hits with ranged attacks, primarily rogue. Rogue 15, ranger 5 can suddenly deal 16d6 sneak attack damage every round as opposed to 8d6 sa + 2d10 ta. I think a straight damage bonus to the attack is the way I have to go on this one.

I can easily change the fluff to "You take aim to find an enemies weak spot"

Nimlouth
2017-02-08, 02:16 PM
You won't be treating the attack as a critical hit per se (If you didn't get a 20 on the roll) so the rogue Sneak Attack wouldn't be rolled twice. You just add twice weapon damage to the dmg roll. You could say that you roll your weapon damage twice and add it to the dmg roll.

IF you land the hit with Take Aim using a longbow (Longbows are 1d8dmg btw xd) the dmg roll would be 8d6(SA)+1d8+DEX+2d10

Using "You deal critical hit weapon damage" the damage roll would be 8d6(SA)+2d8(CriticalHit)+Dex.

Let the player gain more beneficts from using a scoped-high range-weapon instead of adding things that could be magically explained (like the extra 2d10). Gaining advantage on an attack roll every turn is already a strong mechanic, specially if (like you say) you are a rogue or something that beneficts from advantage.

Also, if you ACTUALLY land a critical hit being a rogue you get 16d6(SA)+2d8(WeaponCritical)+4d10(Extradmg)+DEX. And that is a LOT more that way than just adding an extra weapon damage dice.

Phantos_Argent
2017-02-08, 02:32 PM
I would switch out Low Profile or Piercing Shot with something a little less combat heavy, like some a perception bonus, hiding in one spot for lengths of time, finding out information regarding a target, or the ability to make an impossible shot.

For example, let's go with something called Impossible Shot. This would double your proficiency bonus on attack rolls with a bow, but only when not targeting an enemy. The exact wording could use a tune up, but it's left vague for a reason. Like making a ranged attack roll on the straps holding a wyvern rider in place or shooting through a sleeve to keep an ally from falling to their death. It doesn't necessarily provide a solid bonus in combat, what with most objects having a damage threshold, but it does build on the Sniper as being more than just someone really good at killing people at range. Which I know is the exact definition of being a Sniper, but playing someone like that outside of combat situations isn't very fun.