Help with making Sublime Way masters for webcomic

[danielxcutter]

(Note: The "Sublime Way" refers to the nine disciplines in ToB. No really, the book calls them that more than once.)

So... I have a webcomic planned, and I'm currently working on making nine masters of the Sublime Way, one for each discipline. The thing is... while some of them are easy to have a build centered around the discipline, others *cough*Desert Wind*cough* are tougher. So I decided to ask the more skilled people on this forum.

Here's what my plans are for now:

Desert Wind

Yeah, starting off with a bang, aren't we... Okay, that's a bit more literal than usual, but you get it. From a general look at DW, fire resistance/immunity does hose the school in general, but anything that lacks them is toast. Plus, it has some potential for a "dervish" kind of build. Light maces are a DW weapon, so TWFing them for Lightning Maces sounds cool - or should I say hot?

Setting Sun

While none of the masters are exactly young, the SS master has reached the twilight of his life. Tbh, weapons aren't as important compared to the other disciplines, but there's no real need to burn a feat on EWP: Nunchaku. And while unarmed strikes are fine, I still want to give each master a proper weapon.

Oh, any suggestions for race? Thinking about Gnome for some reason.

Shadow Hand

One of the more shady schools, I'll give you that. Hmmm... A Goblin Swordsage with a dip in Rogue, EWP: Spiked Chain, and the Shadow Blade feat isn't too bad, right? 'Cause I really want to do that.

Devoted Spirit

I pray that the "Sword-and-board" fighting style isn't too bad of an idea for this guy. Yes, an AoO tripping build with a reach weapon might be more optimal, but unfortunately none are DS weapons.

Stone Dragon

I'm really between a rock and a hard place for this character, because while I don't want to use Deepstone Sentinel, there's not too much I can do with this school. Oh, I know Goliath's a nice pick... But it has LA. Can't I just use an Orc?

White Raven

Yeah, people say that Bardsader is cool... Doesn't mean I have to pick that as well. Btw, is a halberd acceptable?

No puns.

Iron Heart

Uh... Please don't tell me a Dwarf TWFing two dwarven waraxes and a level in Exotic Weapon Master for Uncanny Blow is terrible. And I don't want to use Bloodstorm Blade. Sorry, no puns as well.

Diamond Mind

Any ideas for a DM master using a discipline weapon? You know, besides Eternal Blade. No puns here either, sorry.

Tiger Claw

I'm considering a Shifter with Bloodclaw Master and a Ranger dip - hope I've smelled a good combo... Yeah, I suck at puns.

[lord_khaine]

One of the more shady schools, I'll give you that. Hmmm... A Goblin Swordsage with a dip in Rogue, EWP: Spiked Chain, and the Shadow Blade feat isn't too bad, right? 'Cause I really want to do that.

I would suggest dual shortswords since he/she would have access to the shadow blade technique feat.


I'm really between a rock and a hard place for this character, because while I don't want to use Deepstone Sentinel, there's not too much I can do with this school. Oh, I know Goliath's a nice pick... But it has LA. Can't I just use an Orc?

Go against expectations? A slightly old elven woman, hair turned grey and in massive plate armor. Able to swing a massive sword and deliver earth-shattering strikes though the power of the Stone dragon style.


Any ideas for a DM master using a discipline weapon? You know, besides Eternal Blade. No puns here either, sorry.

A swordmaster/duelist using a long, straight blade. Going without armor and depending on his agility, fighting with Iatsu-like fast-draw techniques.

[Kish]

Just to check if I'm understanding this correctly, you're asking if the characters for your webcomic are sufficiently optimized, right?

[Uncle Pine]

Desert Wind

Yeah, starting off with a bang, aren't we... Okay, that's a bit more literal than usual, but you get it. From a general look at DW, fire resistance/immunity does hose the school in general, but anything that lacks them is toast. Plus, it has some potential for a "dervish" kind of build. Light maces are a DW weapon, so TWFing them for Lightning Maces sounds cool - or should I say hot?
Aptitude weapons exist, in case you don't want to shoehorn yourself into light maces. Also remember that Flame's Blessing exists, so there's no reason not to be on fire whenever you're not sleeping. ToB also presents the idea of having other elemental-flavoured disciplines that are carbon copies of DW, so you could even group 4 elemental specialties under the banner of this discipline and make it a tetrarchy.


Setting Sun

While none of the masters are exactly young, the SS master has reached the twilight of his life. Tbh, weapons aren't as important compared to the other disciplines, but there's no real need to burn a feat on EWP: Nunchaku. And while unarmed strikes are fine, I still want to give each master a proper weapon.

Oh, any suggestions for race? Thinking about Gnome for some reason.
Kobolds got slight build off RotD web enhancement, making them smaller than gnomes if you want to go with that. Having a pint-sized master for comical relief isn't a bad idea, I like it.


Devoted Spirit

I pray that the "Sword-and-board" fighting style isn't too bad of an idea for this guy. Yes, an AoO tripping build with a reach weapon might be more optimal, but unfortunately none are DS weapons.
It's a comic: the fact that sword and board sucks as a style in d&d shouldn't hamper you so much. You could also just give him an animated shield.


Stone Dragon

I'm really between a rock and a hard place for this character, because while I don't want to use Deepstone Sentinel, there's not too much I can do with this school. Oh, I know Goliath's a nice pick... But it has LA. Can't I just use an Orc?
I like lord_khaine's idea for this one


White Raven

Yeah, people say that Bardsader is cool... Doesn't mean I have to pick that as well. Btw, is a halberd acceptable?

No puns.
The White Raven master... is a kenku. Bonus points since kenkus gain additional teamwork bonuses.


Iron Heart

Uh... Please don't tell me a Dwarf TWFing two dwarven waraxes and a level in Exotic Weapon Master for Uncanny Blow is terrible. And I don't want to use Bloodstorm Blade. Sorry, no puns as well.
You don't have to avert all the stereotypes, so there's no shame in having the Iron Heart master be the less sharp guy of the platoon. No need to blame him either, since what he doesn't understand, he can Iron Heart Surge away. :smallwink:

[WhamBamSam]

What level are these guys?

Desert Wind's fire damage is a bit of a bummer, but it does some cool things as well. One of those things involves increasing the reach of weapons you wield (though it makes all their damage fire) which is handy if you go for a light mace TWFer who would otherwise not have reach. Mostly though, the best thing about the discipline is mobility (Leaping Flame, Salamander Charge, Desert Tempest), so optimizing around that is probably the best option. Your other thread for these guys said you didn't want JPM, which is somewhat limiting (especially as it mixes in Devoted Spirit, and Defensive Rebuke is a favorite of mine when it comes to this sort of optimization), but there are certainly things you can do building around that sort of style.

Setting Sun has problems living up to the hype of the little guy using his opponent's weight against him. The throw maneuvers are still trip checks. They give you the option to use Dex instead of Str, but Improved Trip only boosts Str checks to trip, and you're still stuck with the size bonuses/penalties. Unless you're a high enough level to have Tornado Throw, in which case movement speed boosting eclipses all other avenues of optimization. As I said in you Archon of Nine thread, Tornado Throw in Mercury Dragon form is basically unstoppable. Wild Shape Ranger 6/Swordsage 14 with Dragon Wild Shape is a simple straightforward way to accomplish this with an arbitrary race. Or you could focus on the counters, I guess, since they're pretty fun, but throws are a pretty big part of the discipline, so be aware that Setting Sun shoehorns you into being a big bruiser (or at least medium) up until high levels. You can be a bit less reliant on Str by going Factotum 3 I guess, but still, being small is probably a bad idea.

[TotallyNotEvil]

It's been a while, where might we sample this webcomic of yours?

[Darrin]

Desert Wind

Yeah, starting off with a bang, aren't we... Okay, that's a bit more literal than usual, but you get it. From a general look at DW, fire resistance/immunity does hose the school in general, but anything that lacks them is toast. Plus, it has some potential for a "dervish" kind of build. Light maces are a DW weapon, so TWFing them for Lightning Maces sounds cool - or should I say hot?


Note that the Rising Phoenix Stance allows you to continuously ride around on a pillar of fire. I'm thinking Frost Elf or Fire Elf with the Arctic template for the dramatic irony.



Setting Sun

While none of the masters are exactly young, the SS master has reached the twilight of his life. Tbh, weapons aren't as important compared to the other disciplines, but there's no real need to burn a feat on EWP: Nunchaku. And while unarmed strikes are fine, I still want to give each master a proper weapon.

Oh, any suggestions for race? Thinking about Gnome for some reason.


CE Tibbit Soulborn in cat form with... ok, I was going to say Opposable Scorpion Kama but that's not a discipline weapon for Setting Sun and it's not nearly as amusing as an Opposable Nunchaku.



Shadow Hand

One of the more shady schools, I'll give you that. Hmmm... A Goblin Swordsage with a dip in Rogue, EWP: Spiked Chain, and the Shadow Blade feat isn't too bad, right? 'Cause I really want to do that.


I'd be very tempted to do a Shadow-Pouncer, but it might be difficult to fit everything in and still get 9th level maneuvers.



Devoted Spirit

I pray that the "Sword-and-board" fighting style isn't too bad of an idea for this guy. Yes, an AoO tripping build with a reach weapon might be more optimal, but unfortunately none are DS weapons.


Warforged with Adamantine Body would be a muthereffin' BRICK to take down.



Stone Dragon

I'm really between a rock and a hard place for this character, because while I don't want to use Deepstone Sentinel, there's not too much I can do with this school. Oh, I know Goliath's a nice pick... But it has LA. Can't I just use an Orc?


I'd look at making a grappler based around the Roots of the Mountain stance. Half-Giant might work better with a dash of psionics.



White Raven

Yeah, people say that Bardsader is cool... Doesn't mean I have to pick that as well. Btw, is a halberd acceptable?


Spinning Halberd style is somewhat decent. Add Haft Strike (Dragon Compendium) for another attack. TWF with unarmed strikes + PA. For reach... maybe half-ogre or LA +2, or Anthro Baleen Whale/Constrictor Snake for 3 racial HD.



Iron Heart

Uh... Please don't tell me a Dwarf TWFing two dwarven waraxes and a level in Exotic Weapon Master for Uncanny Blow is terrible. And I don't want to use Bloodstorm Blade. Sorry, no puns as well.


Sounds like awesomesauce to me. Although for fluff reasons maybe a Sunscorch Hobgoblin should be master of this discipline? Dip CW Samurai 1 for EWP Bastard Sword... and then I'd be way too tempted to go Katana Chucker.



Diamond Mind

Any ideas for a DM master using a discipline weapon? You know, besides Eternal Blade. No puns here either, sorry.


Unbodied with Master of the Unseen Hand.



Tiger Claw

I'm considering a Shifter with Bloodclaw Master and a Ranger dip - hope I've smelled a good combo... Yeah, I suck at puns.

Insectile Thri-Kreen Totemist with Girallon Arms and Lamia Belt. 14 claw attacks.

[danielxcutter]

It's been a while, where might we sample this webcomic of yours?

*sigh* It's quite a long way off, sadly. It is a good thing to know that people are interested in it, though.

[danielxcutter]

Just to check if I'm understanding this correctly, you're asking if the characters for your webcomic are sufficiently optimized, right?

More like "not Belkar-level cr*p" is what I'm shooting for, but yeah, you're right.

[Doctor Awkward]

The official artwork in Tome of Battle on pages 41, 43, and 44 depicting master's of the nine disciplines always felt pretty inspired to me. Especially the guy representing Diamond Mind (appears to be a Drow with a rapier and a shield-- I love things that are different), and the guy for White Raven (apparently a Raptoran-- I don't care if it's cliche, that race gets too little love outside of Races of the Wild).

I'd read a comic starring those guys.

[danielxcutter]

The official artwork in Tome of Battle on pages 41, 43, and 44 depicting master's of the nine disciplines always felt pretty inspired to me. Especially the guy representing Diamond Mind (appears to be a Drow with a rapier and a shield-- I love things that are different), and the guy for White Raven (apparently a Raptoran-- I don't care if it's cliche, that race gets too little love outside of Races of the Wild).

I'd read a comic starring those guys.

Hmm, they won't be really the main focus, but they'll be significant for at least an arc or two...


P.S. Good ideas, everyone! Some of them are pretty unexpected and really cool!

[danielxcutter]

Most of these are great ideas, but I still need a bit more... so bumping.

[Darrin]

Most of these are great ideas, but I still need a bit more... so bumping.

Need a bit more what? You want builds/stubs/feats/maneuvers?

[danielxcutter]

Need a bit more what? You want builds/stubs/feats/maneuvers?

Stuff for the Diamond Mind master, mostly, although advice for the others are welcome, of course.

[WhamBamSam]

Stuff for the Diamond Mind master, mostly, although advice for the others are welcome, of course.Kalashtar Swordsage with a bit of psionic dipping and maybe Human Heritage for a level of Shiba Protector. Take Psycrystal Affinity (which also grants Alertness if going the Shiba Protector route), Psycrystal Containment, and Psychic Renewal. If going Shiba Protector, take Intuitive Attack as well. Use psionic focus to refresh maneuvers and take 15 on Concentration checks.

[Particle_Man]

The one thing the White Raven master should have? Friends, Allies, Minions, Followers, Fellow practitioners, etc. They are people persons!

Since it is a comic, I assume you are allowing these guys to specialize without needing to learn anything out of their own "way"?

I would have thought a Ruby Knight Vindicator should fit in there somewhere . . . ;)