DMs... When should fighters/paladins get Full Plate?

[tomato]

DMs!

About what level or after what point do you give your fighter/paladin plate armor? The gold cost is definitely a restrictive factor, but so far I've been leading with the story trope that crafting half plate and full plate takes a special, rare expertise. However, now that the party has reached level 6, the paladin in the group has stockpiled more than enough gold for +1 full plate, and I'm concerned that I may have waited too long. When do you allow your heavily armored party members access to the top shelf armor?

[Foxhound438]

level 5 is pretty common, but only if you're doing lots of up-CR "boss fights". Otherwise probably like level 7 or something.

[DireSickFish]

Anywhere between level 3-5. If we're starting at lvl 5 my group typically just lets them have fullplate.

[Breashios]

Whenever they have the money, are in a place where it can be bought, and think to buy it. I use the it should be fitted to give the full benefit (so also the time for that to happen). Otherwise I don't worry about what level they are or about keeping some type of artificial balance.

As far as the +1, they don't have access to craftsmen willing to make it for whatever reason. Sure if they spent an incredible amount above cost, they could convince a master craftsman or the team including the appropriate magic users to enchant it as such, but my players wouldn't spend all their loot to get something magical when they could get better mundane equipment and potions for everyone.

[MrStabby]

Level 6 is fine - possibly on the later end of that bad but within expectations.

I would say maybe levels 5 to 7 as the range, with 5 the most common.

[Byke]

5-6th in my games....If you hold it off longer than that, they will just start making Dex based War/Pal to get around it.

[Specter]

From levels 3-5. I make sure they always get it at level 5, in the latest of scenarios: if the wizards are throwing fireballs, you want your melee guys having at least good mundane stuff.

[Deleted]

DMs!

About what level or after what point do you give your fighter/paladin plate armor? The gold cost is definitely a restrictive factor, but so far I've been leading with the story trope that crafting half plate and full plate takes a special, rare expertise. However, now that the party has reached level 6, the paladin in the group has stockpiled more than enough gold for +1 full plate, and I'm concerned that I may have waited too long. When do you allow your heavily armored party members access to the top shelf armor?


Right away, let them feel safe... MWUAHAHAHA

[EvilAnagram]

My players got it around level 9, but that's mostly because they were in a city and not delving into dungeons for levels 5-8.

[BiPolar]

Right away, let them feel safe... MWUAHAHAHA

I like the cut of your jib!

[gfishfunk]

I started my paladin at level 6 and he did not get it, sadly. We were supposed to go with character creation defaults and roll for it.

I start with chain mail.

I am looking forward to getting plate, but we started in the wilderness with no idea where we were and I had zero money, like totally zero.

[Deleted]

My players got it around level 9, but that's mostly because they were in a city and not delving into dungeons for levels 5-8.

I feel like getting armor that fits is easier in the city than in a dungeon.



I like the cut of your jib!

Thank you!

[Goober4473]

Real answer: Whenever feels appropriate and makes sense in the setting.

Useful answer: Early to mid heroic tier (level 5-8 or so) is usually good.

[Sigreid]

It's not for me as DM to determine how they spend their resources, or how they prioritize their acquisitions. I would say by level 3 or so there should be the possibility that they could have gotten it, but whether they can or not is based on the choices they make.

[Kane0]

Usually around level 5, give or take a level or two.

[Malifice]

5 seems about right.

The transition from Chain to Banded happens at 2-3.

[Arkhios]

Whenever they can reasonably afford the re-fitting/crafting/purchasing one - from their own savings and not from the party funds.

[D.U.P.A.]

At least 8th. At that time all classes that want max their Dex, reaching their max AC. Except Monks, but that is slightly different story.

[EvilAnagram]

I feel like getting armor that fits is easier in the city than in a dungeon.

Not at the prices in the Player's Handbook.

[Renvir]

Generally, level 5 seems like a good point to be able to get plate mail. If the players hold out longer for money, story, w/e reasons that is fine with me. However, I don't just give someone plate mail if the character is starting out below 5th level.

If you go by the DMG and treasure hoards, a group can expect 7 rolls on the level 0-4 treasure hoard table. Without selling magic items they should walk away with an average of 14700 copper, 7350 silver, 490 gold, and ~1258 gold worth of gems and artwork. This is a total of 2630 gold expected before reaching level 5 for the entire party. While not impossible, it seems unlikely that one character would get enough gold to buy plate before then without good rolls, a nice DM, or selling magic items.

One level 5-10 treasure hoard on the other hand gets 3857 gold just in coins alone. Not to mention, higher value gems and artwork. So if you didn't have enough before level 5 it shouldn't take long to accrue that much to get it after.

My players are cheapskates though. If they come upon some opponent with plate mail they will do everything in their power to drag it back to town for repairs and refitting.

[Sigreid]

Generally, level 5 seems like a good point to be able to get plate mail. If the players hold out longer for money, story, w/e reasons that is fine with me. However, I don't just give someone plate mail if the character is starting out below 5th level.

If you go by the DMG and treasure hoards, a group can expect 7 rolls on the level 0-4 treasure hoard table. Without selling magic items they should walk away with an average of 14700 copper, 7350 silver, 490 gold, and ~1258 gold worth of gems and artwork. This is a total of 2630 gold expected before reaching level 5 for the entire party. While not impossible, it seems unlikely that one character would get enough gold to buy plate before then without good rolls, a nice DM, or selling magic items.

One level 5-10 treasure hoard on the other hand gets 3857 gold just in coins alone. Not to mention, higher value gems and artwork. So if you didn't have enough before level 5 it shouldn't take long to accrue that much to get it after.

My players are cheapskates though. If they come upon some opponent with plate mail they will do everything in their power to drag it back to town for repairs and refitting.

That's not cheapskate, that's just rational. I mean we're talking about something with enough value to possibly be the biggest prize in the treasure cache. Leaving it there if you have another option is just silly.

[Squibsallotl]

I gave my party two sets of magical full plate at 3rd level. But both were cursed (armor of vulnerability and demon plate).

I also regularly throw higher than party level CR enemies at them too.

[Douche]

DMs!

I've been leading with the story trope that crafting half plate and full plate takes a special, rare expertise.

I guess that makes sense, as long as none of your city or household guard have plate either. And then you've got to rationalize why all these leather armor wearing guards have 30 Dex

[Renvir]

That's not cheapskate, that's just rational. I mean we're talking about something with enough value to possibly be the biggest prize in the treasure cache. Leaving it there if you have another option is just silly.

True. At the time it was kind of ridiculous because they made such a big deal about it. So many other important things were going on but they were arguing over who was going to get the busted plate mail. Sometimes I wonder if I've been on the other side of the screen for too long.

[The Shadowdove]

It's a process.

Find a town with a Smith who can make it and had the time/tools/isn't backordered. Not a lot of people made anything aside from standard issue, which is much heavier and unimpressive. Especially without modern tools. Cutting and shaping steal for armor can be a pain without Beverly shears and grinders.

On top of this, it is mostly likely very basic in design if you want it done in a timely fashion due to the amount of fitting required to shape and size things without having to recut things and punch then in different areas. Back then heat shaping was more common, which makes things brittle if done too often.

Punching holes into steel that you've had to go through the trouble of acquiring the right preconstructed gauges for. More time if you're assuming they make the steel themselves, which is also a very time consuming job without machinery and a lot of help.

In fact, a person who has never had full plate before would need to be instructed on how to maintain it. At least how to remove rivets from broken straps and to cut/punch the leather and rivet it back into place. Which should be a part of long rests fairly often. Leather straps wear, sweat eats through mild steel and the tension only helps to make it brittle until it pops.

Unfortunately you won't have access to alloys unless your craftsman either has access or you provide it. And each metal has a different personality.

As such, acquiring a rare alloy may be a fun quest. Then hunting down a capable Smith could be a follow through.

But wait. There's time. Finding a Smith who will dedicate all of his time and resources to your contract over all others is another part of the investment. Without reason to be a top priority, such a skilled man is going to take a long time. Even if he does yours at the same time. An overnight job isn't an option. A weeklong job is unlikely, even if he has everything he needs and you're his only client.

You're hiring a workshop at this point. Unless you're coming back for it later. Most of your stuff is going to be hand rolled, hand riveted, and hand cut. You'll find few welds and more actual pins and small hammer work.

So. Find your Smith, make yourself a priority, provide them with sufficient materials, come back and hope it's done or let them know how to reach you.

In the meantime they may lend you a loaner breastplate and the wait may be worth it if he hands you a masterwork item.

[D.U.P.A.]

I would also like to hear you from you guys, if the loot is always shared evenly or some may take more. Because some classes require more resources, like Paladins with their heavy armor, shields and weapons, while Monks most of the time do not need anything of these. It looks a bit unfair that someone must invest heavily for the adventuring, others can just hoard.

[JeenLeen]

I would also like to hear you from you guys, if the loot is always shared evenly or some may take more. Because some classes require more resources, like Paladins with their heavy armor, shields and weapons, while Monks most of the time do not need anything of these. It looks a bit unfair that someone must invest heavily for the adventuring, others can just hoard.

In our game, the war cleric got his full plate at level 3, I think. Maybe 4. But the other two PCs lent him 500 or so gold so he'd have enough to buy it while we were in the capital city.
With how money is less important in 5e, it seemed reasonable and not loss to our power to give the guy who could spend it on something good (more AC) the gold. Him having better AC means he lives longer, so that's more benefit to us.

Generally, loot is evenly shared in the sense of gold split three ways, potions given to whoever has the least potions or would most likely use it, and magical gear to whoever is appropriate. We're basically trusting the DM to not provide magical gear that would only benefit 1 PC.
We're also able to trade some magical gear for others. Like, my rogue PC has the acolyte background, so I was able to trade a +1 weapon I couldn't use for a +1 shortsword by asking the Church of Pelor. If all the gear got onto one PC, I reckon we'd try to trade to more evenly distribute the boons, and the DM would likely let us find contacts to do so with since it helps keep the party power level balanced.

[TheCountAlucard]

I guess that makes sense, as long as none of your city or household guard have plate either. And then you've got to rationalize why all these leather armor wearing guards have 30 DexThey can wear breastplate or even chain shirts; they're not restricted to leather.

[holywhippet]

Funny thing is, a wizard who knows how to use smith's tools and who knows the fabricate spell could just produce a set of plate mail for you on the spot. They just need some suitable metal to make it out of.

[Arkhios]

Funny thing is, a wizard who knows how to use smith's tools and who knows the fabricate spell could just produce a set of plate mail for you on the spot. They just need some suitable metal to make it out of.

While in theory that could work, plate mail includes more than just sheets of metal. There's the leather to strap the pieces together and a possible "undergarment" made of quilted cloth and such.

[Sigreid]

While in theory that could work, plate mail includes more than just sheets of metal. There's the leather to strap the pieces together and a possible "undergarment" made of quilted cloth and such.

He would indeed need to have all the right materials together when the spell was cast. I don' think that would be too much of a problem. Fabricate should work great for resizing and repairing a captured set, I would think.

It's kind of moot though as by the time you can cast Fabricate, those who want plate have probably already been able to purchase or find a set.

[holywhippet]

True, but I was also thinking of the financial aspect. Plate mail costs 1500 gold by the book. It takes 300 days to make a set the normal way and that is 300 days you are also spending living expenses. It costs 750 gold in materials to make it the traditional way but arguably some of that is the cost of coal or wood to heat the metal for forging. A wizard who can make plate mail using fabricate could crank out the same armor in just 10 minutes and it would cost them less to do so. They could get very rich from doing so, provided there was enough of a market for selling it.

You could apply the same logic to things like jewelry.

[Sigreid]

True, but I was also thinking of the financial aspect. Plate mail costs 1500 gold by the book. It takes 300 days to make a set the normal way and that is 300 days you are also spending living expenses. It costs 750 gold in materials to make it the traditional way but arguably some of that is the cost of coal or wood to heat the metal for forging. A wizard who can make plate mail using fabricate could crank out the same armor in just 10 minutes and it would cost them less to do so. They could get very rich from doing so, provided there was enough of a market for selling it.

You could apply the same logic to things like jewelry.

Well, by RAW, during that 300 days crafting it you are assumed for some stupid reason to be devoting enough time to crafting other things to cover modest living expenses. I don't know why a rich adventurer would do that, but there you have it.