[D&D 3.5] Smite and Full Round Attack

[wllcstr]

Hi fellas, first of all let me introduce myself..

I'm new at forum, my name is William..

My question is about Smite from Paladin, this is pattern of SRD 3.5:


Smite Evil (Su)

Once per day, a paladin may attempt to smite evil with one normal melee attack. She adds her Charisma bonus (if any) to her attack roll and deals 1 extra point of damage per paladin level. If the paladin accidentally smites a creature that is not evil, the smite has no effect, but the ability is still used up for that day.

The doubt is, the Smite ability is ONE attack? or can I use Smite IN a full round total attack (hit with all attacks i have from BAB)?

And if I can use Smite IN a full round total attack, the bonus to hit and damage is applyed to each attack?


Thanks for a while

[Bakkan]

Unfortunately you cannot use Smite Evil as part of a full attack because Smite Evil uses a standard action. We know this because it is labeled (Su), meaning it's a supernatural ability, and supernatural abilities all require standard actions unless specified otherwise.

Thus, the only way to use an unmodified Smite Evil is to use a standard action to make a single melee attack with increased accuracy and damage.

[wllcstr]

Unfortunately you cannot use Smite Evil as part of a full attack because Smite Evil uses a standard action. We know this because it is labeled (Su), meaning it's a supernatural ability, and supernatural abilities all require standard actions unless specified otherwise.

Thus, the only way to use an unmodified Smite Evil is to use a standard action to make a single melee attack with increased accuracy and damage.

Thanks dude

[J-H]

Thus, it typically ends up being combined with a charge, where you are only making one attack anyway.

[Bakkan]

It cannot be combined with a charge either, as a charge is a full-round action that happens to include a melee attack, and does not leave you a standard action to use for Smite Evil.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Unfortunately you cannot use Smite Evil as part of a full attack because Smite Evil uses a standard action. We know this because it is labeled (Su), meaning it's a supernatural ability, and supernatural abilities all require standard actions unless specified otherwise.

Thus, the only way to use an unmodified Smite Evil is to use a standard action to make a single melee attack with increased accuracy and damage.

This is one interpretation of the ability.

However, the ability reads, "may attempt to smite evil with a normal melee attack." This could just as easily be read to mean that you can include a smite anytime you make a normal melee attack with no extra action.

This interpretation is supported by the phrasing of the charging smite ACF; "... If you smite evil on a charge attack, ..." This would be entirely precluded by bakkan's interpretation since it does not explicitly give the ability to smite on a charge but, rather, clearly expects that this is a thing that you can already do.

[Bakkan]

This is one interpretation of the ability.

However, the ability reads, "may attempt to smite evil with a normal melee attack." This could just as easily be read to mean that you can include a smite anytime you make a normal melee attack with no extra action.

This interpretation is supported by the phrasing of the charging smite ACF; "... If you smite evil on a charge attack, ..." This would be entirely precluded by bakkan's interpretation since it does not explicitly give the ability to smite on a charge but, rather, clearly expects that this is a thing that you can already do.

I think the Charging Smite ACF is giving you a new, distinct use for your smite attempts that uses some different rules. This is supported by the facts that, unlike using Smite Evil normally, missing on your Charging Smite attack doesn't use up the ability and the damage dealt is increased.

Also, the phrase "with a normal melee attack" is much more likely to mean "using a normal melee attack" than "when he makes a normal melee attack" in the context of the sentence, at least to my eyes.

[Troacctid]

Using the smite ability is part of a melee attack. You can use it as part of another action.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I think the Charging Smite ACF is giving you a new, distinct use for your smite attempts that uses some different rules.

It does not specify that it's giving you the ability to deliver a smite as part of a charge as a completely separate ability from your normal smite evil ability and you're merely using up one of that ability's uses when smiting charge is (succesfully) used. It's phrasing is quite clearly modifying the result of something you're already able to do.


This is supported by the facts that, unlike using Smite Evil normally, missing on your Charging Smite attack doesn't use up the ability and the damage dealt is increased.

A new ability that modifies an old one must clearly outline the differences. That this (fairly minor) difference is included doesn't make this a new, separate ability.


Also, the phrase "with a normal melee attack" is much more likely to mean "using a normal melee attack" than "when he makes a normal melee attack" in the context of the sentence, at least to my eyes.

I disagree. It could be taken to mean either, so it's a DM call, but it certainly reads more the latter than the former to me and, I'd hazard, to whomever wrote charging smite for whatever that's worth.

From a game balance perspective, smite evil isn't exactly a game-breaker if you allow it to be used whenever a melee attack is used as either a normal, standard action attack or as part of a full attack or even as part of a maneuver.

[Fizban]

This is the first time I've ever heard someone claim Smite Evil requires its own standard action. Which also takes it from reasonably useful to useless garbage the higher your level is by preventing full attacks. There are also tons of other smite and smite-like abilities and magic items which use free, swift, and non-actions to emphasize the point.

[Dante Daylight]

I agree on that the SU is standard action if nothing says otherwise. And "a paladin may attempt to smite evil with one normal melee attack" is saying otherwise.

So you can smite while full-attacking and can decide which of your (normal melee) attacks becomes a smite. You consume 1 daily smite attempt for each single melee attack you make a smite with while full-attacking regardless of missing or hitting.

That isn't automatically true for each smite ablitiy for example the ordained champion prc have to activate his smite as swift action before attacking and just the next attack gains the benefit of it.

[Bronk]

Back to the original set of questions though:


...the Smite ability is ONE attack? or can I use Smite IN a full round total attack (hit with all attacks i have from BAB)?

And if I can use Smite IN a full round total attack, the bonus to hit and damage is applyed to each attack?

For each smite that you have, you can apply it to one melee attack.

You can make a standard action attack and use the smite with it, or you can attack as a full round action and apply as many smites as you have to the attacks, one per attack.

However, one smite does not apply to multiple attacks in a round.

If you need more smites, there's a feat called 'Extra Smite' from Complete Warrior that gives you two extra.