shillelagh Paladin/Warlock idea! Want help/advice/thoughts.

[Prince_Vorrel]

Okay first time poster here so please forgive bad formatting. I recently got back into DnD and after looking through the players handbook and reading various guides on almost every class I came up with this probably not original build that i would like thoughts on.

Here is the idea. Using shillelagh/Pole-arm mastery and Hex AND Booming blade or Green flame blade from Warlock pact of the tome level 3 on a future mostly Paladin character in order to help him scale early on AND give more sustained damage later on.

*Note* the DM i am currently playing with separated ABI's and feats from classes and just gives them every 4 levels (as well as any they get from fighter/rogue). SO at level 5 you get a rather impressive character in terms of power with a half-elf OR if your dm doesnt do what mine does a SLIGHTLY weaker variant human. (taking pole-arm mastery)

Here is what he should look like tonight when i finally get to play him in tonight's group!

Race: Half-elf
Levels: Warlock/3 Paladin/2
my rolled ability scores~
Str:15 (14 + 1 from half elf)
Dex: 10
Con: 16 (15+1 from half elf)
Int: 8
Wis: 8
Cha: 20 (18+2 from half elf)

Using his quarterstaff with shillelagh and dueling as my fighting style I get a +5 to hit and a +7 to damage AND get more 1d8's from Booming blade and Divine smites. AND thanks to pole-arm mastery I get an *extra* attack that does a 1d4 (that can ALSO smite)!

So here is the amount of die I could roll for all my attacks in one turn.
Main attack: 1d8+7 (cha+duelist) + 3d8 (divine smite using warlock spell slot) + 1d8 (booming blade) + 1d6 (hex)
Pole-arm mastery attack: 1d4+7 + 3d8 (using other warlock spell slot) + 1d6

later on im just gonna put more levels into paladin. Giving more spells and spell slots and other goodies like Extra attack at total character level 8 for a big boost in damage and then a BIG boost in survivablity from aura of protection (giving me a LOT of durability just in time for the games difficulty ramp-up around the double digits).

PLEASE let me know if ive done something wrong or if the build doesn't work from an oversight. Otherwise i would love to discuss this build a little bit and see where i can take it to increase its power or give it extra flavor ect. ect.

[Mikal]

Okay first time poster here so please forgive bad formatting. I recently got back into DnD and after looking through the players handbook and reading various guides on almost every class I came up with this probably not original build that i would like thoughts on.

Here is the idea. Using shillelagh/Pole-arm mastery and Hex AND Booming blade or Green flame blade from Warlock pact of the tome level 3 on a future mostly Paladin character in order to help him scale early on AND give more sustained damage later on.

*Note* the DM i am currently playing with separated ABI's and feats from classes and just gives them every 4 levels (as well as any they get from fighter/rogue). SO at level 5 you get a rather impressive character in terms of power with a half-elf OR if your dm doesnt do what mine does a SLIGHTLY weaker variant human. (taking pole-arm mastery)

Here is what he should look like tonight when i finally get to play him in tonight's group!

Race: Half-elf
Levels: Warlock/3 Paladin/2
my rolled ability scores~
Str:15 (14 + 1 from half elf)
Dex: 10
Con: 16 (15+1 from half elf)
Int: 8
Wis: 8
Cha: 20 (18+2 from half elf)

Using his quarterstaff with shillelagh and dueling as my fighting style I get a +5 to hit and a +7 to damage AND get more 1d8's from Booming blade and Divine smites. AND thanks to pole-arm mastery I get an *extra* attack that does a 1d4 (that can ALSO smite)!

So here is the amount of die I could roll for all my attacks in one turn.
Main attack: 1d8+7 (cha+duelist) + 3d8 (divine smite using warlock spell slot) + 1d8 (booming blade) + 1d6 (hex)
Pole-arm mastery attack: 1d4+7 + 3d8 (using other warlock spell slot) + 1d6

later on im just gonna put more levels into paladin. Giving more spells and spell slots and other goodies like Extra attack at total character level 8 for a big boost in damage and then a BIG boost in survivablity from aura of protection (giving me a LOT of durability just in time for the games difficulty ramp-up around the double digits).

PLEASE let me know if ive done something wrong or if the build doesn't work from an oversight. Otherwise i would love to discuss this build a little bit and see where i can take it to increase its power or give it extra flavor ect. ect.

If your DM allows UA stuff make him a Warlock of the Undying Light pact. That provides your cha mod to all fire and radiant spell damage, as well as gives you a couple of free cantrips which includes Sacred Flame.

That way you use Green Flame Blade and get bonus charisma damage on it to both targets.
Cha+Cha to secondary to start, then xd6+Cha on main and xd6+Cha+Cha to secondary in addition to the other Charisma stacking.

You also get the ability at level 1 vs. Level 6 like on the Draconic Sorcerer.

If you can swing it somehow to get the elemental mastery feat to bypass fire resistance, all the better.

Flavor wise, you're a full on heretic burning mode Paladin, using your purifying light to cleanse the unclean from the world. How fanatical you are up to you, of course.

[jaappleton]

This isn't a new idea by any means, but it's a solid idea.

Some like the Fey pact for it, as it grants Faerie Fire to give yourself advantage on your attacks. It also has the nice Lv1 Archfey ability to charm or induce fear every short rest. I saw one build that used Gnome as the race to boost their mental saves even more than the Paladin typically does.

[CaptAl]

Polearm Master and Booming Blade do not mix RAW. Booming Blade means using the cast a spell action, thus denying you the bonus action from the butt end swing. It'll still allow you get the reaction swing when someone enters your reach, but you won't be able to add booming blade to that attack unless you take the Warcaster feat.

[jaappleton]

Polearm Master and Booming Blade do not mix RAW. Booming Blade means using the cast a spell action, thus denying you the bonus action from the butt end swing. It'll still allow you get the reaction swing when someone enters your reach, but you won't be able to add booming blade to that attack unless you take the Warcaster feat.

100% correct.

[Mikal]

100% correct.

All the more reason to go Undying Light :smallsmile:
Remove Polearm Master, get the fire elemental resistance bypass feat, and burn all those heretics to the ground!

Technically, since you aren't using Polearm Master you can use a club vs. Quarterstaff, allowing you use of a shield. Yes I know you can one hand a Quarterstaff and shield which you would have to do anyway for dueling, but clubs just seem to be a better look, especially if you make it look like a mace or the like.

That does bring up a question I wondered though- If you Shillelagh a magic weapon, do you get the special abilities of that weapon in addition to the increased damage and spellcasting mods?

[tieren]

You should also check with your DM if they'll allow dueling fighting style with PAM, technically if you are dueling you are using the staff one handed, which could allow for shield use in the other hand but gets a little munchkiny.

I have a gnome paladin/warlock that uses the shillelagh cantrip to get around maxing combat stats, but I don't use PAM or SCAG cantrips, hes still a ton of fun. I do use the staff one handed and with a shield (while riding a mastiff). he always makes me think of Sir Didymus from the labyrinth movie.

[BW022]

A half-elf, warlock/3 paladin/2 would not gain any feats. You only get an ability score increase/feat when your class level reaches 4. warlock/4 gets one, paladin/4 gets one, warlock/3 paladin/2 does not gain a feat until his warlock level reaches 4th.

[rbstr]

You should also check with your DM if they'll allow dueling fighting style with PAM, technically if you are dueling you are using the staff one handed, which could allow for shield use in the other hand but gets a little munchkiny.

Yeah I would be annoyed with someone trying to PAM bonus attack with a quarterstaff one-handed.
Trying to add dueling to the bonus attack on top of it all is audacious.

[Mikal]

A half-elf, warlock/3 paladin/2 would not gain any feats. You only get an ability score increase/feat when your class level reaches 4. warlock/4 gets one, paladin/4 gets one, warlock/3 paladin/2 does not gain a feat until his warlock level reaches 4th.

Re-read his post. DM is houseruling ASI/Feats occur every 4 character levels, not specific class levels.

[Ovarwa]

This combo is a classic. :)

Second Attack also doesn't mix well with BB/GFB.

Choices:

a) Cantrip + unused bonus action (hex? shillelagh?)
b) Attack action with 1 or 2 attacks, bonus action attack if GWM.

Note that you won't get your first GWM bonus attack in round one, because Shillelagh. If you're using Hex, that's another round your bonus action is consumed. So now you're 2 rounds into combat before considering whether to use GWM.

Also, this kind of build begs to have a high Cha, which applies to pretty much everything. Even as VHuman, I don't see getting GWM until level 12 or even 16 (using your house rules), since Heavy Armor Mastery is especially good on a Warlock, and Resilient Con is also probably better.

Of course, if you are doing Tome3/PaX, the Pa11 ability makes the cantrip a lot less interesting. (I think I prefer anything between Pa7/Tome13 and Pa13/Tome7 better, than Pa17/Tome3, but....)

And if you take dueling, and if this is allowed with 1 handed use, then the cantrip becomes less interesting again. (with both hands busy, watch out for spells that cannot be cast)

[Davemeddlehed]

Okay first time poster here so please forgive bad formatting. I recently got back into DnD and after looking through the players handbook and reading various guides on almost every class I came up with this probably not original build that i would like thoughts on.

Here is the idea. Using shillelagh/Pole-arm mastery and Hex AND Booming blade or Green flame blade from Warlock pact of the tome level 3 on a future mostly Paladin character in order to help him scale early on AND give more sustained damage later on.

*Note* the DM i am currently playing with separated ABI's and feats from classes and just gives them every 4 levels (as well as any they get from fighter/rogue). SO at level 5 you get a rather impressive character in terms of power with a half-elf OR if your dm doesnt do what mine does a SLIGHTLY weaker variant human. (taking pole-arm mastery)

Here is what he should look like tonight when i finally get to play him in tonight's group!

Race: Half-elf
Levels: Warlock/3 Paladin/2
my rolled ability scores~
Str:15 (14 + 1 from half elf)
Dex: 10
Con: 16 (15+1 from half elf)
Int: 8
Wis: 8
Cha: 20 (18+2 from half elf)

Using his quarterstaff with shillelagh and dueling as my fighting style I get a +5 to hit and a +7 to damage AND get more 1d8's from Booming blade and Divine smites. AND thanks to pole-arm mastery I get an *extra* attack that does a 1d4 (that can ALSO smite)!

So here is the amount of die I could roll for all my attacks in one turn.
Main attack: 1d8+7 (cha+duelist) + 3d8 (divine smite using warlock spell slot) + 1d8 (booming blade) + 1d6 (hex)
Pole-arm mastery attack: 1d4+7 + 3d8 (using other warlock spell slot) + 1d6

later on im just gonna put more levels into paladin. Giving more spells and spell slots and other goodies like Extra attack at total character level 8 for a big boost in damage and then a BIG boost in survivablity from aura of protection (giving me a LOT of durability just in time for the games difficulty ramp-up around the double digits).

PLEASE let me know if ive done something wrong or if the build doesn't work from an oversight. Otherwise i would love to discuss this build a little bit and see where i can take it to increase its power or give it extra flavor ect. ect.

You don't get the Polearm Master bonus action attack when you use Booming Blade/Green Flame Blade. Using either of those cantrips uses the cast a spell action, not the attack action, even though the cantrip calls for an attack roll to be made.

You'd only get the 1d8+7+3d8+1d6 for an average of 28.5 damage per round until your spell slots run out.

Also, you get a +8 to hit at level 5 with 20 CHA because you add the proficiency to the attack roll.

[Prince_Vorrel]

This combo is a classic. :)

Second Attack also doesn't mix well with BB/GFB.

Choices:

a) Cantrip + unused bonus action (hex? shillelagh?)
b) Attack action with 1 or 2 attacks, bonus action attack if GWM.

Note that you won't get your first GWM bonus attack in round one, because Shillelagh. If you're using Hex, that's another round your bonus action is consumed. So now you're 2 rounds into combat before considering whether to use GWM.

Also, this kind of build begs to have a high Cha, which applies to pretty much everything. Even as VHuman, I don't see getting GWM until level 12 or even 16 (using your house rules), since Heavy Armor Mastery is especially good on a Warlock, and Resilient Con is also probably better.

Of course, if you are doing Tome3/PaX, the Pa11 ability makes the cantrip a lot less interesting. (I think I prefer anything between Pa7/Tome13 and Pa13/Tome7 better, than Pa17/Tome3, but....)

And if you take dueling, and if this is allowed with 1 handed use, then the cantrip becomes less interesting again. (with both hands busy, watch out for spells that cannot be cast)

What is GWM? and the character isnt really going to be a caster in combat though i suppose he could do away with his shield and get rid of duelist for defense so that he switches between two-handing his quarterstaff or one-handing it so he can cast spells.

[Davemeddlehed]

What is GWM? and the character isnt really going to be a caster in combat though i suppose he could do away with his shield and get rid of duelist for defense so that he switches between two-handing his quarterstaff or one-handing it so he can cast spells.

GWM = Great Weapon Master feat.

[Ovarwa]

What is GWM? and the character isnt really going to be a caster in combat though i suppose he could do away with his shield and get rid of duelist for defense so that he switches between two-handing his quarterstaff or one-handing it so he can cast spells.

Sorry, I meant Polearm Master.

The thing about a PalaTome is that he *can* be a caster in combat. He can do great ranged combat, great melee combat, and other things too, depending on the situation. Warlock spells aren't the best, but there are plenty of times when hitting someone with a staff or EB isn't as good as, say, a Fireball or Tentacles or Hold, etc, which are very much on the Warlock agenda. (Of course, with staff and shield being Warlock/Paladin foci, VSM spells are quite castable with no feats at all.)

Many good choices; they just don't all go together.

[Sception]

Classic combo, though it takes a while to come online, and the aesthetics of it are kind of terrible (staff and shield? Fighting with both ends of the staff while wielding it one handed?), to the point that some DMs just say no.

You can end up a bit squishy in combat, though. For that reason, I think going fiend for the temp hp recycling is a better choice than undying light for extra damage on burning blade, especially when making 2 attacks with polearm master will often be as good or better than one with burning blade anyway.

You also might want to favor paladin over warlock after getting level 3 for the tome, to pick up aura of protection, extra attack, and the oathbreaker's amazing channel divinities and level 7 aura for cha-to-damage-again. Maybe even up to level 9 for animate dead, or 11 for improved divine smite, though there will be very little warlock left if you go that far.

Alternatively, fey warlock / ancients paladin has some useful abilities and a lot of thematic overlap.

Just remember that activating shylegleg costs a bonus action, and only lasts for a minute, so that's often one bonus action spent at the start of each combat. Use that opening round to cast a spell (bless, darkness, eldritch blast, etc), since you can't make a PAM bonus attack when take a spell action, anyway.

[Ovarwa]

Hi,


Classic combo, though it takes a while to come online, and the aesthetics of it are kind of terrible (staff and shield? Fighting with both ends of the staff while wielding it one handed?), to the point that some DMs just say no.

Aesthetics are terrible... until someone makes it seem cool. EG Gandalf longsword+staff style. Silly, but it's now a Thing.

But the combo works just fine staff-only.



You can end up a bit squishy in combat, though. For that reason, I think going fiend for the temp hp

Not much squishier than a straight Paladin: 1hp/Warlock level different. All that is more than compensated by either Fiend or Armor of Agathys.


recycling is a better choice than undying light for extra damage on burning blade, especially when making 2 attacks with polearm master will often be as good or better than one with burning blade anyway.

Possibly. :) Fiend is good.



Alternatively, fey warlock / ancients paladin has some useful abilities and a lot of thematic overlap.

Any combo is fine.


Just remember that activating shylegleg costs a bonus action, and only lasts for a minute, so that's often one bonus action spent at the start of each combat. Use that opening round to cast a spell (bless, darkness, eldritch blast, etc), since you can't make a PAM bonus attack when take a spell action, anyway.
Or cast Eldritch Blast. Or many things.

Anyway,

Ken

[coredump]

Aesthetics are terrible... until someone makes it seem cool. EG Gandalf longsword+staff style. Silly, but it's now a Thing.


No, the aesthetics are still terrible. That only 'worked' because:Gandalf. He could have used a fighting style based on blowing feathers at people, and it would have been 'cool' because:Gandalf. But 'feather blowing' is just as silly as trying to weild a Qstaff in one hand, let alone using both ends, let alone with a shield.