PDA

View Full Version : Is a CR 4 monster equivalent in power to a Level 4 character?



Brendanicus
2017-02-01, 09:00 AM
So, my players need to escort a CR 4 monster to the bowels of a temple complex. Only thing is, I need to calculate how much of an asset the monster is to the party so I can figure out the difficulty of the dungeon.

Spectre9000
2017-02-01, 09:03 AM
Typically, a CR = 4 players of that level.

ChubbyRain
2017-02-01, 09:07 AM
No.

It all depends on what players are at the table.

Even then... Generally no. Single monsters don't have the action economy to keep up with 4 PCs. Which is why lair actions is a thing.

Also why you generally use more of a lower CR monster to give a better challenge than a single high CR monster.

CR is more of a bad joke than a useful tool.

Solunaris
2017-02-01, 09:08 AM
A CR 4 Monster generally means that it's appropriate for a group of level 4 adventurers to fight. That doesn't make it equivalent to the party, but it does give a baseline of power. A good measurement is to look at the EXP it gives from beating it in a fight. Then compare that to the deadly encounter EXP budget. How many of that monster do you need to fill that budget? If it's 4, then you could assume the monster is worth one adventurer.

ChubbyRain
2017-02-01, 09:16 AM
A CR 4 Monster generally means that it's appropriate for a group of level 4 adventurers to fight. That doesn't make it equivalent to the party, but it does give a baseline of power. A good measurement is to look at the EXP it gives from beating it in a fight. Then compare that to the deadly encounter EXP budget. How many of that monster do you need to fill that budget? If it's 4, then you could assume the monster is worth one adventurer.

Except this means nothing in actual play.

It's more of a "here try this, maybe it will work... Make sure to wing everything just in case!" type of setup.

ChampionWiggles
2017-02-01, 09:33 AM
Quote from Monster Manual:

"An appropriately equipped and
well-rested party of four adventurers should be able to
defeat a monster that has a challenge rating equal to its
level without suffering any deaths. For example, a party
of four 3rd-level characters should find a monster with
a challenge rating of 3 to be a worthy challenge, but not
a deadly one"

But it really depends on how hard you want the encounter to be and how optimized the characters are. Going off of what Solunaris said, it's better to go off of XP Threshold, which is covered in DMG pg 82. You can better gauge the encounter, because with XP Threshold you can adjust for difficulty and the size of your party.

Shining Wrath
2017-02-01, 09:36 AM
There are several online tools to help build "balanced" encounters - Kobold Fight Club has one. Use the Google thingy.

Having said that, which CR 4 monster? The CR system doesn't make appropriate allowances for creatures that can impose debilitating conditions.

Having said that, how generous has the DM been with ability scores and magic items? Not all Level 4 characters are equal.

Ninja_Prawn
2017-02-01, 09:51 AM
I need to calculate how much of an asset the monster is to the party

This is a really complicated scenario. In my experience, a monster ally is a lot less useful than its CR would imply. Defensively, most enemies are going to be targetting the PCs, either because they're intelligent and the PCs are higher-value targets, or because a PC with a tanky build is deliberately attracting their attacks. Thus, the monster's defensive abilities don't contribute much to the party's survivability. Offensively, monsters tend to have lower attack bonuses than comparable PCs do, so they're often going to be missing targets that the PCs can hit. Thus their offensive contribution is diminished as well.

I have no idea how you'd factor in support abilities...

Malifice
2017-02-01, 10:05 AM
Typically, a CR = 4 players of that level.

No, not really. A CR 4 monster should be defeated by a party of four PCs of that level.

It ain't supposed to be a 50-50 fight, or even a deadly one. The players are expected to win.

CR is only useful when eyeballing encounters. If the monster has a CR more than a few points higher than that of your player characters, then it may possess an ability or some other effect that may prove particularly deadly to your group.

When you look at the XP budgeting, you'll find a single monster of a CR of about three or four higher than your party level is generally appropriate for a hard encounter. If your party have extra power over and above the expected baseline such as from magic items, It's likely going to increase the expected CR by one or two more.