Gonna use some loaded dice to gamble lolol

[Douche]

I bought a set of wooden dice on Amazon that are marketed as loaded. They are meant to land on a 6 every time. I bought them for the novelty.

Now I'm going to create a rogue or something, and challenge people to gamble as much as possible. Going to see how long it takes the DM to realize that I'm cheating him, hehehe.

To be clear, I won't be using them to roll damage or stats or anything like that. They'll solely be used for the purpose of roleplaying as a cheating gambler.

[Deophaun]

My experience with loaded dice is that they are really obvious just from the odd way they roll. I had someone "accidentally" mix in a loaded die with his set, and the instant he rolled we knew something was wrong without having to even look at the result.

[hymer]

It's obvious to anyone observing the moment you roll them if they're actually supposed to land on 6 every time. They sound slightly off, and they move strangely when rolled. You can combat that by rolling in a cup, but that also makes it a lot less likely they will function.

That said: I wouldn't keep secrets from the DM.

Edit: Largely shadowmonk'ed.

[JoshuaZ]

This is a bad idea. If you do this, people will, quite legitimately not trust you in the future.

[Stealth Marmot]

This is a bad idea. If you do this, people will, quite legitimately not trust you in the future.

Well...check the name I suppose.

[veti]

I would expect the DM to spot the dice within about two rolls. Three, tops.

Then either s/he will laugh at you, or the NPCs you're gambling with will lynch your character. And rightly too.

[Mr Beer]

Anyone else find OP's act obvious and dull?

[TurboGhast]

The concept of using an actual loaded die to represent the rolls of an IC loaded die is cool, but deliberately forcing others to figure out that your die is loaded OOC is the worst possible execution of the idea I can think of. Anything but saying that the actual loaded die represents the loaded die in your character's inventory as early as possible could break trust between player and DM. The DM and players not trusting eachother could get people kicked out, or even straight up end the game.

If you want to do this, make sure everyone else in the group is okay with it too.

[Phoenixguard09]

It might just be me, but I'd actually find it pretty funny if one of my players tried this with me. I wouldn't consider it a violation of trust at all.

With that said, it would appear I am in the minority, and so I wouldn't recommend doing it.

[tomandtish]

There's always the risk of problems when you are combining player actions and character actions.

Case in point: Your use of the loaded dice is presumed to represent your character's use of loaded dice, yes? Then that means that either you are always trying to use your dice when you gamble, or else you are trying to swap your dice for others at key times.

In either case, those you gamble with should have chances to notice whether or not they see (or suspect) something wrong with the dice. Maybe your DM doesn't notice, but the 15th level rogue does. And if you tell your DM that your character is cheating (and he doesn't realize that you are using loaded dice to begin with) he may already be adding a modifier to your roll.

Were I the DM, I'd want you to tell me, and to handle it as follows (assumes the dice look reasonably similar to normal dice):

You may use your dice without normally saying anything to me.

If I don't notice anything, congratulations, you made your check automatically.

If I notice something, I'll follow my normal criteria for deciding if anyone else notices anything.

Since you have the special dice, I will not add a modifier to your roll. They ARE the modifier. If someone else is cheating, I may borrow them myself.

There may be certain situations where I'll need you to tell me if your character is cheating (or planning on cheating) even if I am unaware of the dice you are using. Some of these may be obvious to you ahead of time (entering a high-stakes tournament with a lot of professional gamblers) in which case you'll know ahead of time that cheating is obviously being heavily watched for. Some may not (someone has successfully cast a spell on you without your knowledge).

[D+1]

I would expect the DM to spot the dice within about two rolls. Three, tops.

Then either s/he will laugh at you, or the NPCs you're gambling with will lynch your character. And rightly too.
Successful grifting (which is what we're talking about here) involves eliminating "obvious" clues in the mind of your mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzkI5Sy2sP8
Same principles as performing magic, really. Even if the DM/other players notice, there's EVERY reason to accept that the NPCs haven't got the first clue...
Of course, that movie also contains examples of when the NPC's DO have a clue - and it does NOT turn out pleasantly for the grifter...

[SethoMarkus]

As it sounds like the die/dice that are loaded are obviously different in appearance from the normal set of dice used for other rolls (I believe it was mentioned that the loaded dice are made of wood, although I suppose an entire set for normal use could also be made of wood), as long as the DM was aware of this ahead of time, I think this could be a fun roleplaying gimmick.

Mechanically, I would still require a Sleight of Hand or similar check for the rogue to pull this off in-character. The die/dice are just a prop. And as long as they were easily distinguishable from the normal dice used, I think it would be interesting to not let the other players know and keep it between the one player and the DM, and see how long it takes for the other players to catch on. Perhaps even make the Sleight of Hand checks in secret or through passed notes.

[Keltest]

Normally I would discourage such behavior, but since I recognize the OP and have to wonder if he is intentionally trying to get kicked out of his group(s), I will instead say that a set of dice that only rolls 6s are really, really bad for actually cheating at gambling. People tend to notice around the 3rd time you get all 6s.

[CharonsHelper]

My experience with loaded dice is that they are really obvious just from the odd way they roll. I had someone "accidentally" mix in a loaded die with his set, and the instant he rolled we knew something was wrong without having to even look at the result.

Indeed. That's why real cheating gamblers use much more subtle dice which only let them win a few % more of the time. Enough so that they'll come out ahead in the long term - but not enough that anyone notices.

Really - all of the dice any of us use are pretty terrible and not truly random. Casinos avoid molded dice for a reason - using machined d6s for Craps and other dice games - even changing them out periodically so that the wear of use doesn't shift the odds. They're too pricey for use in standard board games etc. though, and I can't imagine how expensive a machined d20 would be.

[Mordar]

Anyone else find OP's act obvious and dull?

For certain, but there have been some interesting conversations spurred by his posts, to no credit of his own, naturally.

- M

[khadgar567]

funny thing is damn dice set is extremely cheap like hot dog price range on online

[JenBurdoo]

I've considered allowing actual loaded dice in a game - to represent supernatural skill or a magic weapon. "You're going to activate the sword's power? Here, use these dice instead." Of course, you can instead just use the 5ed Advantage rules or something similar - I would not simply add pluses to the item since that would be less random.

[dps]

As it sounds like the die/dice that are loaded are obviously different in appearance from the normal set of dice used for other rolls (I believe it was mentioned that the loaded dice are made of wood, although I suppose an entire set for normal use could also be made of wood), as long as the DM was aware of this ahead of time, I think this could be a fun roleplaying gimmick.



I agree, but the bolded part is very important, IMO.

Your character trying to cheat NPCs or even other PCs is a lot different than you trying to put one over on the DM.

[Jay R]

It sounds like a cute idea, but it seems like you're hiding something important from yourself.

If your character uses loaded dice in the simulated tavern to fool the others involved in the game, then he is cheating at whatever game he's playing.

For exactly the same reasons, if you're using loaded dice to fool the DM, you're cheating at the D&D game you're playing.

I know that you have a reason for it, and it feels like a fun way to simulate the character's cheating. But it is in fact breaking the rules.

[Douche]

It sounds like a cute idea, but it seems like you're hiding something important from yourself.

If your character uses loaded dice in the simulated tavern to fool the others involved in the game, then he is cheating at whatever game he's playing.

For exactly the same reasons, if you're using loaded dice to fool the DM, you're cheating at the D&D game you're playing.

I know that you have a reason for it, and it feels like a fun way to simulate the character's cheating. But it is in fact breaking the rules.

Look dudes, I didn't realize that the dice were that obvious, and I also wasn't trying to do it with malicious intent. Like I said, I'm not going to use them to roll stats or anything hugely impactful (nor am I going to use them as damage die, or to recharge the breath attacks that I don't have). This would've just been for the purpose of gambling.

Furthermore, I wasn't going to do it straightfaced & I would've rolled it way out in the open. The dice I ordered are made of wood too, while everyone including myself uses Chessex dice which are made from acrylic (?). It would've been super obvious.

All I was trying to do was remove the boring "Roll deception/slight of hand to see if your cheating succeeds" and make it more "active" roleplaying... But since everyone thinks it's a bad idea, I'll reconsider.


For certain, but there have been some interesting conversations spurred by his posts, to no credit of his own, naturally.

- M

That's pretty mean spirited, gentlesir. I'm not sure what you mean by "posts" as I haven't posted here in months. But I will take credit for the conversations I provoke, it's called the Socratic Method & it's very smart - which is what I am.

[Lord Torath]

All I was trying to do was remove the boring "Roll deception/slight of hand to see if your cheating succeeds" and make it more "active" roleplaying... But since everyone thinks it's a bad idea, I'll reconsider.Talk to your DM. If he/she's okay with it, go for it. If your DM is not okay with it, don't.

[Jay R]

First of all, let me congratulate you for asking for people's opinions in advance. That shows a concern for doing things right, and well as an implicit concern that this might not be the kind of thing you'd be comfortable having done.


Look dudes, I didn't realize that the dice were that obvious, and I also wasn't trying to do it with malicious intent.

Nobody has suggested malicious intent. Playing with loaded dice is still technically cheating. And if they catch you at it, they aren't likely to believe your explanation about intent.


Like I said, I'm not going to use them to roll stats or anything hugely impactful (nor am I going to use them as damage die, or to recharge the breath attacks that I don't have). This would've just been for the purpose of gambling.

It's still *you* rolling unfair dice, not your character. You don't use real loaded dice to simulate the character's loaded dice for the same reasons you don't use real knockout drugs, or a real pickpocketing attempt.


It would've been super obvious.

All I was trying to do was remove the boring "Roll deception/slight of hand to see if your cheating succeeds" and make it more "active" roleplaying.

You're still substituting your own sleight of hand skills for your character's, and testing it against the other player's Spot check instead of those character's Spot checks - and doing it without their consent.

Besides, either it's super obvious with no intent to deceive, or you're trying to see if anybody catches you at it. It can't be both; they are contradictory.


.. But since everyone thinks it's a bad idea, I'll reconsider.

Please do. But the thing you need to reconsider is talking to the DM first. The only way your intent comes into play is if you tell somebody [I]in advance what you're doing, and why. If you wait until they catch you, all attempts to explain your intent will sound like you're only saying it because you got caught.

Again, I salute you for both the concern that it might not be right, and the willingness to ask for advice.

[Vinyadan]

You shouldn't play with loaded stuff, and especially not throw it around carelessly. If a shot goes off, people may get hurt, and you'll be in trouble.

[Heliomance]

You shouldn't play with loaded stuff, and especially not throw it around carelessly. If a shot goes off, people may get hurt, and you'll be in trouble.

Rule 1 of dice safety: the dice are always loaded.

[Stealth Marmot]

You shouldn't play with loaded stuff, and especially not throw it around carelessly. If a shot goes off, people may get hurt, and you'll be in trouble.

You know the rules of the National Dice association: Always treat every die like it's loaded.

[Deophaun]

You know the rules of the National Dice association: Always treat every die like it's loaded.
Never roll a die at something you do not intend to destroy.

Surprisingly, following that rule would have saved many a PC's life.

[hymer]

You shouldn't play with loaded stuff, and especially not throw it around carelessly. If a shot goes off, people may get hurt, and you'll be in trouble.

If you always treat the dice as loaded, you'll be safer. Third time's the charm? :p

[Dashuto]

As a DM, I actually purchased cheater dice to personally watch how they roll. Most players where I am use Chessex brand anyway and their cheater dice fortunately seem to come in slightly diff colors in my area, making them a bit more obvious. I could be wrong about that, but our only shop seems to sell them in the same four colors eternally, and those colors do not match ANY other dice they sell.

[hymer]

As a DM, I actually purchased cheater dice to personally watch how they roll.

Yes, yes, for... scientific study, of course. ;)

[Quickblade]

I think this sounds like a great way of adding some roleplay, but I would let your DM in on it. Your rogue could have extra normal dice hidden when gambling that he can swap with loaded ones to choose when he wants to cheat and that's when your DM could make a sleight of hand check ( with adv. as this would be a practiced movement) and have a penalty if playing professional gamblers or closely watched. OOC using the wooden loaded dice clearly shows when your Rogue is cheating or not.

[Herobizkit]

Your dice are loaded!

- You gave me loaded dice?

http://static1.fjcdn.com/comments/Theflamingotrigger+rolls+5+_224845628419e8272f5854 dfc53b20df.jpg

[Jay R]

A not-very-observant player, who doesn't watch the table much but paid for a high spot score, is likely to get annoyed by an implicit rule change that he has to watch the other player roll dice to avoid losing money.

[ShaneMRoth]

What is the best possible outcome here?

What do you stand to gain here?

If there is a happy ending here, I can't see it.