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View Full Version : Pathfinder [WIP] A probably terrible attempt at a less terrible martial: The Hero base class



Roadie
2017-02-01, 06:00 PM
Design goals:


Avoid creating new subsystems. Instead, reuse elements that are currently underwhelming, enhance, and combine them.
Cover most of the bullet points in this post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21106908&postcount=70), but subject to the caveats of above. The entire class should take the equivalent of no more than a few printed pages.
Have combat competence similar to that of a reasonably buffed tier 3 class (inquisitor, bard, etc), including the knock-on effects of things like summon monster spells and conjuration spells that create walls and other impediments.
Should have out of combat competence similar to that, too. This is of, course, much harder.
Should support a variety of playstyles, but without just giving a list of "make it work together yourself" options to choose from. Instead, there should be a basic, powerful combat chassis that can be expanded in multiple directions using the preexisting options in the game system.
Minimal expendable resources. No X/day expendable resources at all. None of the "X points per day" pools that Pathfinder has become so fond of.
This is still tremendously in progress. In particular, I'm still doing a lot of thinking about how I want out-of-combat competence to work, and I'm still doing a lot of thinking about class abilities at around level 15 and up, where matching the potential of even the bard spell list in a way that's useful for more than just fighting is rather difficult.

With that stuff in mind, here is...

The Hero

Hit Die: d12.

Class Skills: All skills.

Skill Ranks per Level: 4 + Int.

Table: The Hero


Level
BAB
Fort
Ref
Will
Special


1st
+1
+2
+2
+2
focused weapon, seasoned, stalker sense, threatening, trapfinding, world walker


2nd
+2
+3
+3
+3
fated, rangemaster, shadow sight, sure-footed, turnabout


3rd
+3
+3
+3
+3
evasive, intuitive senses, omnitactical, practiced, stalwart


4th
+4
+4
+4
+4
armor skin, prepared, state of grace, unkillable, unparalleled


5th
+5
+4
+4
+4
dynamic strike, omnitactical, muscle mystery, stance breaker, strong swimmer


6th
+6
+5
+5
+5
effortless dual-wielding, inspiring confidence, master of escape, painful gambit, warrior spirit


7th
+7
+5
+5
+5
blind spot, improved stalwart, perfect fall, shared stalker sense, vicious maneuvers


8th
+8
+6
+6
+6
combat instinct, deft, fast feet, fierce climber, heavy training


9th
+9
+6
+6
+6
item mastery, ranged disable, shared evasive, shared stalwart, use the moment


10th
+10
+7
+7
+7
enhance magic items, impeccable balance, interception, parry spell, punishing blow


11th
+11
+7
+7
+7
commanding presence, destroyer, good jumper, quick recovery, resolute


12th
+12
+8
+8
+8
dispel fear, fearless, fight on, secret paths, unbreakable resilience


13th
+13
+8
+8
+8
juggernaut, seven-league leap, shared improved stalwart


14th
+14
+9
+9
+9
dimensional grappler, feather step, starfall, titan's bane


15th
+15
+9
+9
+9
cling to life, mob ruler


16th
+16
+10
+10
+10
inspiring assault, unswerving loyalty


17th
+17
+10
+10
+10


18th
+18
+11
+11
+11


19th
+19
+11
+11
+11


20th
+20
+12
+12
+12



Armor and Weapon Proficiencies: You are proficient in all armor, shields and tower shields, and all simple and martial weapons.

Focused Weapon (Ex) (1st level): As the advanced weapon training (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter#TOC-Advanced-Weapon-Training) ability of the same name, except that you apply it to all weapons and to unarmed strike.

Seasoned (Ex) (1st level): Each time you gain a level in this class, choose a skill. You can substitute your total base attack bonus in place of your ranks in that skill. You can immediately retrain all ranks in that skill at no cost. For each skill you choose, if that skill allows taking 10, you can always take 10 on that skill, even in combat.

Stalker Sense (Ex) (1st level): As the vigilante talent (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/vigilante#TOC-Vigilante-Talent) of the same name.

Threatening (Ex) (1st level): You gain Combat Reflexes, Combat Patrol, Dodge, Mobility, and Stand Still as bonus feats. You get an additional number of attacks of opportunity each round equal to your class level. Stand Still applies to your full threatened area, not just adjacent squares. You can use Combat Patrol as a free action and you increase the threatened area it grants by 5 feet per class level. You gain an additional number of attacks of opportunity each round equal to your class level, and when you make an attack of opportunity, you can use an attack action or a combat maneuver in place of the attack of opportunity. If you have an ability or weapon that would let you perform a ranged combat maneuver with a full-round action or less, you can also perform that maneuver in place of an attack of opportunity.

Trapfinding (Ex) (1st level): As the rogue ability of the same name.

World Walker (Ex) (1st level): You divide all overland travel time for you or a group you lead by your class level.

Fated (Ex) (2nd level): You get a luck bonus to ability checks, skill checks, initiative checks, attack rolls, saving throws, damage rolls, and combat maneuver checks equal to 1/2 your class level (rounded down).

Shadow Sight (Ex) (2nd level): As the vigilante talent (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/vigilante#TOC-Vigilante-Talent) of the same name.

Sure-Footed (Ex) (2nd level): As the vigilante talent (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/vigilante#TOC-Vigilante-Talent) of the same name.

Turnabout (Ex) (2nd level): As the vigilante talent (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/vigilante#TOC-Vigilante-Talent) of the same name.

Inuitive Senses (Su) (3rd level): At the given class levels, you gain the benefits of the noted spells, as though continually under the effect of those spells with a caster level equal to your class level.

3rd level: detect magic (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/detect-magic) and detect secret doors (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/detect-secret-doors)
5th level: find traps (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/find-traps)
7th level: arcane sight (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/arcane-sight)
11th level: greater arcane sight (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/arcane-sight)
13th level: true seeing (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/true-seeing)
15th level: foresight (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/foresight), and you treat all your allies as under the same effect


At 5th level, you gain blindsense to 30 feet. At 9th level, you gain blindsight to 30 feet. At 13th level, this increases to 60 feet. At 17th level, this increases to 90 feet.

Rangemaster (Ex) (2nd level): You multiply the range increment (if any) of your attacks by your class level. At 10th level, your weapons with range increments no longer have a maximum range increment.

Evasive (Ex) (3rd level): As the vigilante talent (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/vigilante#TOC-Vigilante-Talent) of the same name.

Practiced (Ex) (3rd level): You get a competence bonus to ability checks, skill checks, initiative checks, saving throws, attack rolls, damage rolls, and combat maneuver checks equal to 1/3 your class level (rounded down). You count as having the weapon training ability, and you count as having fighter levels equal to your class levels. If an ability would use your weapon training bonus, it uses your practiced bonus instead.

Stalwart (Ex) (3rd level): As the inqusitor ability of the same name, except that it can be used in any (or no) armor.

Armor Skin (Ex) (4th level): As the vigilante talent (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/vigilante#TOC-Vigilante-Talent) of the same name.

Prepared (Ex) (4th level): You get a bonus to each of your ability scores equal to 1/4 your class level (rounded down).

State of Grace (Ex) (4th level): Whenever you roll a natural 1, you can reroll it (including rerolling any following natural 1s). Whenever you roll a natural 20, you can add +20 to the roll and to any associated critical confirmation roll.

Unparalleled (Ex) (4th level): As an immediate action, or as a free action than can taken even when it's not your turn by expending an attack of opportunity, you can reroll any one roll. You choose whether to use the original roll or the reroll. At 8th level, you can allow one of your allies within your threatened area to reroll instead.

Unkillable (Ex) (4th level): As the vigilante talent (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/vigilante#TOC-Vigilante-Talent) of the same name.

Dynamic Strike (Ex) (5th level): You gain Vital Strike (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/vital-strike-combat---final) and Mythic Vital Strike (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/mythic/mythic-feats/vital-strike-mythic) as bonus feats (even if you aren't mythic). At 10th level, you gain Improved Vital Strike (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/improved-vital-strike-combat---final) as a bonus feat. At 15th level, you gain Greater Vital Strike (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/greater-vital-strike-combat---final) as a bonus feat. At 20th level, whenever you use Greater Vital Strike, you roll the damage dice five times. You can apply the effects of Vital Strike, Improved Vital Strike, or Greater Vital Strike to your attacks of opportunity.

Muscle Mystery (Ex) (5th level): Whenever you roll for a skill or ability check with Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution as its key ability score, you also add your ability bonuses from the other two ability scores to that check. You add the highest of your Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution bonuses to your Will save and the highest of your Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma bonuses to your Fortitude and Reflex saves.

Omnitactical (Ex) (5th level): You can perform any combat maneuver in place of a melee attack. If you have an ability or weapon that would allow performing a combat maneuver as a full-round action or less, you can perform that combat maneuver in place of a ranged attack.

For each of the following sets of feats, as long as you have any of the feats in that set, you have the rest of the feats in that set as bonus feats.

Crossbow Mastery, Deadly Aim, Divine Fighting Technique (Abadar's Crossbow), Exceptional Pull, Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Ranged Disarm, Ranged Trip, Rapid Reload (all crossbows), Trick Shooter
Improvised Weapon Mastery, Quick Draw, Ricochet Toss, Startoss Comet, Startoss Shower, Startoss Style, Throw Anything
Ace Disarm, Ace Trip, Burrowing Shot, Liberating Shot, Snap Shot
Blinded Blade Style, Blinded Competence, Blinded Master, Blind-Fight, Greater Blind-Fight, Improved Blind-Fight
Dirty Fighting, Combat Expertise, Improved Dirty Trick, Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Improved Reposition, Improved Steal, Quick Dirty Trick, Quick Reposition, Quick Steal
Cut from the Air, Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Drag, Improved Overrun, Improved Sunder, Quick Drag
Grabbing Drag, Grabbing Master, Grabbing Style, Greater Grapple, Improved Grapple, Improved Unarmed Strike, Sleeper Hold
Improved Shield Bash, Missile Shield, Shield Focus, Shield Proficiency, Stumbling Bash
Greater Ray Shield, Smash from the Air, Ray Shield
Bashing Finish, Shield Master, Shield Slam, Shield Snag, Toppling Bash
Agile Maneuvers, Fencing Grace, Slashing Grace (all), Starry Grace, Two-Weapon Fighting, Two-Weapon Grace, Weapon Finesse
Demoralizing Lash, Divine Fighting Technique (Calistria's Poisoned Lash), Fury's Snare, Improved Whip Mastery, Serpent Lash, Whip Mastery
Balor Whip, Greater Balor Whip, Improved Balor Whip, Greater Whip Mastery
Amateur Gunslinger, Deft Shootist Deed, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearms), Extra Grit, Poison Shot Deed, Gunsmithing, Rapid Reload (all firearms)
Craft Cybernetics, Craft Pharmaceutical, Craft Robot, Craft Technological Arms and Armor, Craft Technological Item, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (heavy weapons), Scavenger's Luck, Technologist
Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Wondrous Item, Master Craftsman (all Craft and Profession skills)
Equipment Trick (all), Weapon Trick (all)


Stance Breaker (Ex) (5th level): You gain Disruptive (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/disruptive-combat---final), Shatterspell (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/racial-feats/shatterspell-combat-dwarf), Spellbreaker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/spellbreaker-combat---final), and Spellcut (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/spellcut) as bonus feats. You can use Shatterspell by expending three attacks of opportunity, instead of a limited number of times per day, and you can use Shatterspell as a combat maneuver attempt rather than specifically as a standard action. You add your practiced bonus to the DC increase from Disruptive. At 10th level, this increases to twice your practiced bonus, and you ignore any effect that would prevent you from making an attack of opportunity against a specific target, such as illusion of calm or wrath of blades.

Strong Swimmer (Ex) (5th level): You gain a swim speed equal to your total land speed. If your land speed changes, so does your swim speed. You also double the amount of time you can hold your breath. At 8th level, you multiply the number of rounds you can hold your breath by 10. At 11th level, this increases to x100. At 14th level, this increases to x1000.

Painful Gambit (Ex) (6th level): As the marshal path mythic ability of the same name (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/mythic/mythic-heroes/mythic-paths---paizo-inc/marshal#TOC-Painful-Gambit-Ex-), except that instead of expending a use of mythic power, you expend five attacks of opportunity.

Effortless Dual-Wielding (Ex) (6th level): As the advanced weapon training (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter#TOC-Advanced-Weapon-Training) ability of the same name, except that you apply it to all weapons.

Inspiring Confidence (Ex) (6th level): As the advanced weapon training (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter#TOC-Advanced-Weapon-Training) ability of the same name, except that you can use it any number of times per day.

Master of Escape (Su) (6th level): As the trickster path mythic ability of the same name (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/mythic/mythic-heroes/mythic-paths---paizo-inc/trickster#TOC-Master-of-Escape-Su-).

Warrior Spirit (Ex) (6th level): As the advanced weapon training (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter#TOC-Advanced-Weapon-Training) ability of the same name, except that you use your practiced bonus in place of the weapon training bonus.

Blind Spot (Ex) (7th level): As the vigilante talent (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/vigilante#TOC-Vigilante-Talent) of the same name.

Improved Evasion (Ex) (7th level): As the rogue ability of the same name.

Improved Stalwart (Ex) (7th level): If you fail a Fortitude or Will saving throw against an attack that has a reduced effect on a successful save, you're instead subject to the reduced effect as if you'd succeeded on the save. You don't gain this benefit while helpless.

Perfect Fall (Ex) (7th level): As the vigilante talent (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/vigilante#TOC-Vigilante-Talent) of the same name.

Shared Stalker Sense (Ex) (7th level): Allies within your threatened area gain the benefit of your stalker sense ability, as though they had it and had hero levels equal to your class level -6.

Vicious Maneuvers (Ex) (7th level): Whenever you succeed on a combat maneuver attempt, you can make an attack against the same target as a free action (that can be taken even when it's not your turn).

Combat Instinct (Ex) (8th level): If you use a standard action to attack and the attack misses, or to attempt a combat maneuver and the attempt fails, you gain an additional standard action. You can only gain one additional standard action each turn in this way.

Deft (Ex) (8th level): You gain an additional move action each turn. At 16th level, you gain a second additional move action.

Fast Feet (Ex) (8th level): Multiply all of your speeds (including those granted by magic items or other effects) by 2. (If a speed is set equal to another speed you have, don't multiply it twice.) This increases to x3 at 12th level, x4 at 16th level, and x5 at 20th level. This is applied after all other bonuses and penalties (such as speed reduction from heavy armor).

Fierce Climber (Ex) (8th level): You gain a climb speed equal to your total land speed. If your land speed changes, so does your climb speed.

Heavy Training (Ex) (8th level): As the vigilante talent (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/vigilante#TOC-Vigilante-Talent) of the same name.

Item Mastery (Ex) (9th level): At 9th level and every 3 levels afterward, you gain an item mastery feat of your choice as a bonus feat. You don't need to fulfill the prerequisites for these feats. You can use any item mastery feat additional times per day by expending ten attacks of opportunity for every additional use.

Ranged Disable (Ex) (9th level): As the trickster path mythic ability of the same name (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/mythic/mythic-heroes/mythic-paths---paizo-inc/trickster#TOC-Ranged-Disable-Ex-), except the range for a thrown weapon is your range increment with that weapon, and instead of expending one use of mythic power, you expend ten attacks of opportunity.

Shared Evasive (Ex) (9th level): Allies within your threatened area gain the benefit of your evasive ability, as though they had it and had hero levels equal to your class level -6.

Shared Stalwart (Ex) (9th level): Allies within your threatened area gain the benefit of your stalwart ability, as though they had it.

Use the Moment (Ex) (9th level): Whenever an opponent within your threatened area attacks any of your allies or casts a spell targeting any of your allies and not you, they provoke an attack of opportunity from you.

Enhance Magic Items (Ex) (10th level): As the trickster path mythic ability of the same name (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/mythic/mythic-heroes/mythic-paths---paizo-inc/trickster#TOC-Impeccable-Balance-Ex-), except that you use your fated bonus instead of your tier, and instead of expending a use of mythic power, you expend ten attacks of opportunity.

Impeccable Balance (Ex) (10th level): As the trickster path mythic ability of the same name (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/mythic/mythic-heroes/mythic-paths---paizo-inc/trickster#TOC-Impeccable-Balance-Ex-).

Interception (Ex) (10th level): Whenever an opponent takes a 5-foot step out of your reach, they provoke an attack of opportunity from you.

Parry Spell (Su) (10th level): As the guardian path mythic ability of the same name (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/mythic/mythic-heroes/mythic-paths---paizo-inc/guardian#TOC-Parry-Spell-Su-), except that you use your fated bonus instead of your tier, and you expend ten attacks of opportunity instead of one use of mythic power.

Punishing Blow (Ex) (10th level): As the champion path mythic ability of the same name (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/mythic/mythic-heroes/mythic-paths---paizo-inc/champion#TOC-Punishing-Blow-Ex-).

Commanding Presence (Ex) (11th level): As the marshal path mythic ability of the same name (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/mythic/mythic-heroes/mythic-paths---paizo-inc/marshal#TOC-Commanding-Presence-Ex-).

Destroyer (Ex) (10th level): As the champion path mythic ability of the same name (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/mythic/mythic-heroes/mythic-paths---paizo-inc/champion#TOC-Destroyer-Ex-).

Good Jumper (Ex) (11th level): As part of movement, you can jump any distance up to your total move speed (upward movement counts as double, as when flying), without needing to make an Acrobatics check. If you've successfully grappled a flying opponent (and can move), you can use them as the starting point for a jump.

Resolute (Ex) (11th level): You gain spell resistance equal to 10 + your class level. Unlike normal spell resistance, you can lower or raise this spell resistance as a free action, even when it's not your turn.

Quick Recovery (Ex) (11th level): As the guardian path mythic ability of the same name (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/mythic/mythic-heroes/mythic-paths---paizo-inc/guardian#TOC-Quick-Recovery-Ex-). At 15th level, you gain the benefits of selecting that ability twice.

Dispel Fear (Su) (12th level): As the marshal path mythic ability of the same name (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/mythic/mythic-heroes/mythic-paths---paizo-inc/marshal#TOC-Dispel-Fear-Su-), except that the range is your threatened area instead of 30 feet, and instead of expending one use of mythic power, you expend ten attacks of opportunity.

Fearless (Su) (12th level): As the universal mythic ability of the same name (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/mythic/mythic-heroes#TOC-Universal-Path-Abilities#TOC-Fearless-Su-).

Unbreakable Reslience (Ex) (12th level): As the guardian path mythic ability of the same name (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/mythic/mythic-heroes/mythic-paths---paizo-inc/guardian#TOC-Unbreakable-Resilience-Ex-), selected for physical ability scores. At 16th level, you also gain its benefits for mental ability scores.

Secret Paths (Su) (12th level): By traveling overland for one hour, you can exploit the secret paths of the world to enter another plane, as if with plane shift. At 16th level, you can travel as if with interplanetary teleport.

Fight On (Su) (12th level): As the marshal path mythic ability of the same name (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/mythic/mythic-heroes/mythic-paths---paizo-inc/marshal#TOC-Fight-On-Su-), except that the range is your threatened area instead of 30 feet, and instead of expending one use of mythic power, you expend ten attacks of opportunity.

Shared Improved Stalwart (Ex) (13th level): Allies within your threatened area gain the benefit of your improved stalwart ability, as though they had it.

Juggernaut (Ex) (13th level): As the champion path mythic ability of the same name (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/mythic/mythic-heroes/mythic-paths---paizo-inc/champion#TOC-Juggernaut-Ex-), except that you can attempt to break through any number of walls or doors as part of your charge, and you expend 10 attacks of opportunity instead of one use of mythic power.

Seven-League Leap (Ex) (13th level): As the champion path mythic ability of the same name (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/mythic/mythic-heroes/mythic-paths---paizo-inc/champion#TOC-Seven-League-Leap-Ex-), except that you use your fated bonus instead of your tier, you can use the ability with any load, and you expend 10 attacks of opportunity instead of one use of mythic power.

Dimensional Grappler (Su) (14th level): As the guardian path mythic ability of the same name (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/mythic/mythic-heroes/mythic-paths---paizo-inc/guardian#TOC-Dimensional-Grappler-Su-).

Feather Step (Su) (14th level): As the trickster path mythic ability of the same name (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/mythic/mythic-heroes/mythic-paths---paizo-inc/trickster#TOC-Feather-Step-Su-).

Starfall (Ex) (14th level): You gain the benefits of glide (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/g/glide), as if continually under the effects of that spell, except that you fall at normal speed, and you can move up to 5 feet horizontally for every 20 feet you fall instead of for every 1 foot. If you land on a creature or object (requiring a successful touch attack), that creature or object takes damage as if it had fallen the same vertical distance.

Titan's Bane (Ex) (14th level): As the trickster path mythic ability of the same name (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/mythic/mythic-heroes/mythic-paths---paizo-inc/trickster#TOC-Titan-s-Bane-Ex-).

Cling to Life (Su) (10th level): As the guardian path mythic ability of the same name (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/mythic/mythic-heroes/mythic-paths---paizo-inc/guardian#TOC-Cling-to-Life-Su-).

Mob Ruler (Sp) (15th level): As the marshal path mythic ability of the same name (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/mythic/mythic-heroes/mythic-paths---paizo-inc/marshal#TOC-Mob-Ruler-Sp-), except that you use your fated bonus instead of your tier, and instead of expending one or two uses of mythic power, you expend 10 or 20 attacks of opportunity.

Inspiring Assault (Su) (16th level): As the marshal path mythic ability of the same name (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/mythic/mythic-heroes/mythic-paths---paizo-inc/marshal#TOC-Inspiring-Assault-Su-), except that the range is your threatened area instead of 30 feet, and instead of expending one use of mythic power, you expend ten attacks of opportunity.

Unswerving Loyalty (Su) (16th level): As the marshal path mythic ability of the same name (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/mythic/mythic-heroes/mythic-paths---paizo-inc/marshal#TOC-Unswerving-Loyalty-Su-), except that instead of expending one use of mythic power, you expend ten attacks of opportunity.

stack
2017-02-01, 06:11 PM
Belongs in homebrew.

You can report you own post to ask it to be moved.

Roadie
2017-02-01, 06:13 PM
Belongs in homebrew.

You can report you own post to ask it to be moved.

Whoops! Thank you.

Tuvarkz
2017-02-01, 11:27 PM
You're overdoing the numbers, class nets you what, +10 luck to attack and damage rolls (trait can boost to 11), +6 competence to attack and damage rolls, and the bonuses from having an extra +5 to Strength by level 20; not to mention a similarly powerful increase to saving throws. (With baseline stuff and a cloak of +5 resistance, assuming no dumps on any of the three stats, you have at least +37 to all saves by capstone)
Class's level 1 features are incredibly strong, might want to move some of that later down the line.
Seasoned is plainly to good, amounts to having effective 24+int skill ranks per level by level 20. Reduce
Threatening increased area scales too fast, reduce to 5 +5 per 4 class levels at least. +1 AoO/level is pretty powerful as well, reduce to at least 1 AoO/2 levels.
World Walker needs to come in at least at level 10, and make it half level
State of Grace and Unparalleled are plain ***** strong. Remove.
Dynamic Strike may get to dangerously strong damage levels.
All the Stalwart line comes in too early, and so does Improved Evasion.
Keep Muscle Mystery to its first line, the other two make it broken.
Deft is plain too good, Fast Feet needs scaling nerf.
Parry Spell is pointless, the characters are likely going to have Smash from the Air by then, particularly easy due to feat taxes not being there anymore, and Smash from the Air uses only one AoO.
Resolute: Yeah, nope. Just nope.
etc etc etc. You are overdoing it and need to nerf plenty of stuff and remove plenty of features.

Roadie
2017-02-02, 12:41 AM
You're overdoing the numbers, class nets you what, +10 luck to attack and damage rolls (trait can boost to 11), +6 competence to attack and damage rolls, and the bonuses from having an extra +5 to Strength by level 20; not to mention a similarly powerful increase to saving throws. (With baseline stuff and a cloak of +5 resistance, assuming no dumps on any of the three stats, you have at least +37 to all saves by capstone)
I probably overdid it with the numbers, yes. I'm thinking about changing the ability score stuff into enhancement bonuses to de facto enhance use of items at high level (e.g. if you've got a +4 or +5 enhancement to ability scores, you can actually use the "big six" slots for stuff that isn't just stat-boosting items). Similarly, I'll probably change save-related stuff into less huge enhancement bonuses. I'm thinking about keeping the attack and damage bonuses somewhat similar, maybe toned down some, though I should do more benchmarking against sixth-level spells.

I do want to keep at least a partial luck or competence bonus to everything, as part of a stand-in for the various miscellaneous bonuses spellcasters can get—luck, competence, sacred, indirect things like rerolls, summoning or calling monsters with huge bonuses to a skill, etc.

If other things get toned down, though, the bonus to CMB will still be substantial, in an effort to try and make use of combat maneuvers anything but crap at mid/high levels.


Class's level 1 features are incredibly strong, might want to move some of that later down the line.
Yeah, I'll have to play around with the first few levels to make it an attractive option without just being an automatic "take X levels multiclass" for existing tier 3 classes.


Seasoned is plainly to good, amounts to having effective 24+int skill ranks per level by level 20. Reduce
The point is to keep up with the million-and-one skill buffs, and effective skill buffs, that even tier 3 spellcasters get. A bard can easily circumvent any number of skill-based challenges once they get a few spell levels. "Pretty much every skill you ever care about gets maxed out eventually" is a huge blunt instrument, but there aren't many other options to accomplish similar things without writing an endless list of specific abilities.


World Walker needs to come in at least at level 10, and make it half level
I was thinking about this one. I like it getting up to some crazy divisor at high level (as teleportation and the like are coming into play), but at level 10 a half-level divisor would definitely better compare to other options (200 miles per day compared to a phantom steed's 80, but the phantom steed gets to ignore water and difficult terrain). Something that's linear at lower levels and exponential at higher levels would be cool, but that's hard to try and mush into one easy-to-understand formula.


Threatening increased area scales too fast, reduce to 5 +5 per 4 class levels at least. +1 AoO/level is pretty powerful as well, reduce to at least 1 AoO/2 levels.
The point of the class having such a big threatened area (though I do need to do retuning to make sure it makes sense with speed, etc) is that a tier 3 spellcaster can easily control a substantial area with a summoned minion or two, a well-placed wall spell, etc. On top of that, the Hero is a much, much more obvious target than "whoever cast that obscuring mist" or "the source of the illusion spell messing with everybody".

The number of AoOs is something I'm still thinking about, but it's also something I think actually becomes kind of unimportant before long. Like, how many enemies will fights usually have, and how many times per round can they possibly trigger AoOs? Just within the first few levels, whether it's one-per-level or one-per-two-levels, the character will already be hitting a de facto maximum number of AoOs per round. Past that, the increasing number becomes a feel-good thing—and a way to decimate groups of weak enemies in the same way a spellcaster can with area attacks—rather than a real balance changer.


State of Grace and Unparalleled are plain ***** strong. Remove.
State of Grace I will probably move up to high levels. I don't think it would make a huge difference in play, but thematically it is could be pretty cool as a capstone thing.

I think I might change Unparalleled (with a rename) into an immediate action only, and to benefit an ally only—sort of a low-key parallel to bardic inspiration stuff, and as a subtle prod to stay close to party members.


Keep Muscle Mystery to its first line, the other two make it broken.
Strength-boost gimmicks and the like do worry me there, even if it was balanced perfectly against everything else in the class itself, so I will probably pull the second sentence.


Deft is plain too good
The idea is to be comparable to spellcasters with multiple summoned minions, and to allow "move and attack and move" stuff without just using Spring Attack. It's definitely kind of clunky at best, though, and I'm thinking about things to replace with with. I was thinking about making it "move action limited to non-movement", for easier usage of gear and such, but that's even weirder.


Fast Feet needs scaling nerf.
I think I'll probably just replace that with static bonuses starting at a lower level, since multiplication is both weird and is kind of late to just spring out of the ether like that. With that said, those static bonuses will be set to (by 20th level) try and match the sort of ground coverage that a couple of 6th-level spells put together can.


Parry Spell is pointless, the characters are likely going to have Smash from the Air by then, particularly easy due to feat taxes not being there anymore, and Smash from the Air uses only one AoO.
Good point.


Resolute: Yeah, nope. Just nope.
The point of that one is to give the Hero some compensation for the fact that they're aggroing the attention of every spellcaster who might even think of fighting the party, and even at that level offensive spellcasting monsters usually have the CL advantage anyway (hezrou demon, barbed devil, etc). With that said, I might tone it down some... or possibly just remove it entirely and focus on save-related stuff instead, because actually using SR in play is a big pile of annoyances no matter how useful it is.


Dynamic Strike may get to dangerously strong damage levels.
I'm dithering between taking it away from AoOs, or keeping that part but pulling Mythic Vital Strike. The hard part is juggling that with any Combat Patrol tweaks without making the implied combat style completely reactive, rather than both active and reactive.


All the Stalwart line comes in too early, and so does Improved Evasion.
I might bump stalwart to a higher level, though I moved it early for the same "unpleasant attention from literally every spellcaster" reason as above.

aimlessPolymath
2017-02-02, 12:49 PM
Specific criticism to things which jump out at me, I have no idea how to estimate balance issues because the class is SO BIG.


Evasive (Ex) (3rd level): As the vigilante talent of the same name.
This is just Evasion. The talent gives Improved Evasion at later levels, but you get it from your class before hand. Since you get it and the Stalwart equivalent at the same levels, you should probably merge them into one class feature (Resilient/Improved Resilient?) which protects from all of Fort/Ref/Will.

Attack of opportunity related class features, collected as best I could:

Threatening (Ex) (1st level): You gain Combat Reflexes, Combat Patrol, Dodge, Mobility, and Stand Still as bonus feats. You get an additional number of attacks of opportunity each round equal to your class level. Stand Still applies to your full threatened area, not just adjacent squares. You can use Combat Patrol as a free action and you increase the threatened area it grants by 5 feet per class level. You gain an additional number of attacks of opportunity each round equal to your class level, and when you make an attack of opportunity, you can use an attack action or a combat maneuver in place of the attack of opportunity. If you have an ability or weapon that would let you perform a ranged combat maneuver with a full-round action or less, you can also perform that maneuver in place of an attack of opportunity.

Turnabout (Ex) (2nd level): As the vigilante talent of the same name.
Partially redundant due to the second sentence before the last of Threatening; Turnabout lets you make Dirty Trick maneuvers, but Threatening lets you make any kind of maneuver. It does let you redirect attacks people make to other people, or spells to other targets.

Stance Breaker (Ex) (5th level): You gain Disruptive, Shatterspell, Spellbreaker, and Spellcut as bonus feats. You can use Shatterspell by expending three attacks of opportunity, instead of a limited number of times per day, and you can use Shatterspell as a combat maneuver attempt rather than specifically as a standard action. You add your practiced bonus to the DC increase from Disruptive. At 10th level, this increases to twice your practiced bonus, and you ignore any effect that would prevent you from making an attack of opportunity against a specific target, such as illusion of calm or wrath of blades.
Ignore things that keep you from making AoOs, can use Shatterspell as an attack of opportunity (in theory- good vs. summons). Spellbreaker: Enemies in your radius who fail to cast defensively (after the +4 from Disruptive + another 1/3 to 2/3 your level) provoke. Also, what does "effect" mean? Does it include, say, casting defensively?


Dynamic Strike (Ex) (5th level): You gain Vital Strike and Mythic Vital Strike as bonus feats (even if you aren't mythic). At 10th level, you gain Improved Vital Strike as a bonus feat. At 15th level, you gain Greater Vital Strike as a bonus feat. At 20th level, whenever you use Greater Vital Strike, you roll the damage dice five times. You can apply the effects of Vital Strike, Improved Vital Strike, or Greater Vital Strike to your attacks of opportunity.

Works on attacks of opportunity to a ludicrous extent.


Vicious Maneuvers (Ex) (7th level): Whenever you succeed on a combat maneuver attempt, you can make an attack against the same target as a free action (that can be taken even when it's not your turn).
Works with your combat maneuvers as AoOs.

Use the Moment (Ex) (9th level): Whenever an opponent within your threatened area attacks any of your allies or casts a spell targeting any of your allies and not you, they provoke an attack of opportunity from you.
Big combo with Turnabout; this means, in practice, that whenever someone attacks an ally or casts a spell targetting someone else, you can run up, hit them, and redirect the spell or attack to the attacker. THEN, you'll hit them again. Alternatively, if they're casting a spell, just hit them for 3-5 times your weapon damage, and laugh as they fail the Concentration roll. This isn't battlefield control anymore; it's just brutal. Also, this is partly redundant due to Stance Breaker (which is misnamed), since they'll be failing to cast spells defensively anyway.


Interception (Ex) (10th level): Whenever an opponent takes a 5-foot step out of your reach, they provoke an attack of opportunity from you.
Redundant due to your ginormous reach.


Not AoO related directly:


Fight On (Su) (12th level): As the marshal path mythic ability of the same name, except that the range is your threatened area instead of 30 feet, and instead of expending one use of mythic power, you expend ten attacks of opportunity.
Not AoO related, except to mention that this makes two of these characters literally invincible.


Seven-League Leap (Ex) (13th level): As the champion path mythic ability of the same name, except that you use your fated bonus instead of your tier, you can use the ability with any load, and you expend 10 attacks of opportunity instead of one use of mythic power.
Not AoO related, except to mention that AoOs refresh per-round, and you have a minute-long run-up to the jump, so the cost is negligible.


Item Mastery (Ex) (9th level): At 9th level and every 3 levels afterward, you gain an item mastery feat of your choice as a bonus feat. You don't need to fulfill the prerequisites for these feats. You can use any item mastery feat additional times per day by expending ten attacks of opportunity for every additional use.
Again, they refresh per-round, and you won't be using more than one per round.


Feather Step (Su) (14th level): As the trickster path mythic ability of the same name.
Has a duration, cost is a per-round resource, again.

A lot of the mythic abilities are "spend a point, this also works vs. mythic sources". You can probably just reduce them to their base effect, i.e. Unswerving Loyalty is just immunity to mind-affecting effects.

Will go for another pass later.



Focused Weapon (Ex) (1st level): As the advanced weapon training ability of the same name, except that you apply it to all weapons and to unarmed strike.
This is just the warpriest class feature.

dragonjek
2017-02-02, 01:16 PM
With Rangemaster, you can shoot someone on the other side of the planet. That's a bit... extreme, don't you think?

Morphic tide
2017-02-02, 02:06 PM
Generally, you want a semi-generalist. I'd go with taking the setup for Ranger Fighting Styles and give a list of feats and non-feat abilities based on what's picked. For example, having a TWF style that gives you all the TWF feats mostly on-time and a choice of two weapons from a list to have about 2/3rds progression along the basic weapon focus tree in, along with abilities based on the weapons picked. Obviously, a ranged option or two that gives abilities that make ranged weapon actually useful for once is a must.

Also, non-combat options. Fighters are in the top five damage dealers in all of 3.5, and are the only ones without uses per day limits on their novas of damage. Their problem is that they are incapable of being competent at anything other than combat and they badly lack needed abilities to get their damage to land on their enemies. Charging a flying enemy doesn't work all that well, given possible engagement ranges and movement options. And the difficulty of being able to charge flying enemies as a Fighter in the first place.

These are the real issues, lack of versatility is the problem of Martial classes in D&D 3.x based games. It's that they are trash all around, or fail utterly at non-combat and flying enemies.

Roadie
2017-02-02, 09:42 PM
Specific criticism to things which jump out at me, I have no idea how to estimate balance issues because the class is SO BIG.
Oh, yeah. That's definitely going to be an issue here, from trying to cover even a fraction of the versatility of a 6th-level spell list.


This is just Evasion. The talent gives Improved Evasion at later levels, but you get it from your class before hand. Since you get it and the Stalwart equivalent at the same levels, you should probably merge them into one class feature (Resilient/Improved Resilient?) which protects from all of Fort/Ref/Will.
Good idea.


Partially redundant due to the second sentence before the last of Threatening; Turnabout lets you make Dirty Trick maneuvers, but Threatening lets you make any kind of maneuver. It does let you redirect attacks people make to other people, or spells to other targets.
The redirect part is the reason it's in there, but yeah, I should definitely de-overlap more of this stuff.

Edit: On that note, the main reason Threatening is so aggressive about allowing it is the myriad of totally inconsistent feats that allow maneuvers with ranged attacks in different ways, along with the ones that grant weird special uses of existing maneuvers with different actions.


Enemies in your radius who fail to cast defensively (after the +4 from Disruptive + another 1/3 to 2/3 your level) provoke.
I might have gone overboard with that, too. I don't want it to be completely impossible to cast defensively, but I definitely want it to be distinctly unreliable, instead of the current state of affairs where even after Disruptive spellcasters are basically guaranteed to always cast defensively eventually.


Also, what does "effect" mean? Does it include, say, casting defensively?
Hmm, good catch. I'll think about that one. The intent is to no-sell stuff like Illusion of Calm that gives spellcasters the ability to ignore AoOs for a whole combat at the cost of one spell slot. It might be better to just leave it out, and have the expectation be to aggressively go after magical effects like that with Shatterspell.


Works on attacks of opportunity to a ludicrous extent.
My line of thought there is that I want to enable what's effectively "area damage" without actually giving area attacks. Handing out AoOs like candy goes a long way towards that, but Mythic Vital Strike on top could well be overdoing it. I'll have to run some numbers on it.


Works with your combat maneuvers as AoOs.
This is in part an attempt to encourage starting off with combat maneuvers, rather than only doing all damage all the time. It does raise combat effectiveness, but I don't think by itself it's a huge amount, since at best it's doing stuff like Dirty Trick conditions that a spellcaster could apply the equivalent of en masse without the unreliability of repeated attack rolls.


Big combo with Turnabout; this means, in practice, that whenever someone attacks an ally or casts a spell targetting someone else, you can run up, hit them, and redirect the spell or attack to the attacker. THEN, you'll hit them again. Alternatively, if they're casting a spell, just hit them for 3-5 times your weapon damage, and laugh as they fail the Concentration roll. This isn't battlefield control anymore; it's just brutal.
Ah, heck, I legit hadn't thought about "why are you hitting yourself? why are you hitting yourself?" of Turnabout. I'll have to give that some thought in general.

Something comes to mind with a concentration penalty instead of the auto-trigger, maybe (to go with pulling the other defensive casting penalty). I do like the idea in general, since it seems like a relatively elegant way to pull the attention of every spellcaster (and SLA-using monster) away from the rest of the party without adding extra spellcasting-interfering abilities just for that.


Also, this is partly redundant due to Stance Breaker (which is misnamed), since they'll be failing to cast spells defensively anyway.
Good point. I'll think about that. It would probably be cooler in play to pull the defensive casting penalty (beyond Disruptive) and leave this kind of "personally aggro all the spellcasters" effect instead as the main thing.


Redundant due to your ginormous reach.
Take a look at Combat Patrol again. It's kind of a wacky feat because it gives you threatened area, but not more reach; you still have to move up to them to attack (outside of Snap Shot).


Not AoO related, except to mention that this makes two of these characters literally invincible.
Good point. I really like having this or something like it, but that kind of end state would suck. Maybe a rapidly escalating cost every round? I'm not sure if there are any other wacky combos to get an infinite number of AoOs per round.


Not AoO related, except to mention that AoOs refresh per-round, and you have a minute-long run-up to the jump, so the cost is negligible.
Good point.


Again, they refresh per-round, and you won't be using more than one per round.
The idea here is to indirectly limit the character's "area damage" capability every round an item mastery power used, but it's probably under-tuned, since the class gets such a huge number of AoOs per round.


Has a duration, cost is a per-round resource, again.
I think this one could just be always-on without breaking anything at this level, since the super-jumping has already kicked in.


A lot of the mythic abilities are "spend a point, this also works vs. mythic sources". You can probably just reduce them to their base effect, i.e. Unswerving Loyalty is just immunity to mind-affecting effects.
Good point.


This is just the warpriest class feature.
Honestly, this one is just because the advanced weapon training ability name fits better, but yeah, it would be better to just reference the original ability and give an exception to its Weapon Focus limitation.


Generally, you want a semi-generalist. I'd go with taking the setup for Ranger Fighting Styles and give a list of feats and non-feat abilities based on what's picked. For example, having a TWF style that gives you all the TWF feats mostly on-time and a choice of two weapons from a list to have about 2/3rds progression along the basic weapon focus tree in, along with abilities based on the weapons picked. Obviously, a ranged option or two that gives abilities that make ranged weapon actually useful for once is a must.
Mmm, yeah, this would probably work better than Omnitactical does for actual usage, both in terms of keeping track of character abilities and in avoiding weird-degenerate multiclassing builds that pull in just enough levels to hit Omnitactical. I'll think about fighting style stuff to plug together. It would probably still be aggressively better than the ranger equivalent, since that barely helps with the feat taxes for anything but the straightforward greatsword-and-power-attack types.


Also, non-combat options. Fighters are in the top five damage dealers in all of 3.5, and are the only ones without uses per day limits on their novas of damage. Their problem is that they are incapable of being competent at anything other than combat and they badly lack needed abilities to get their damage to land on their enemies.
I gladly welcome ideas for more or different non-combat abilities to add. I think I've got the basics in there, though they still need tuning—tons of skills, multiple movement modes, etc—but more stuff to add in at all levels that goes along with effects like Mob Ruler would be good. I should do another pass on vigilante social talents and rogue talents to grab social-related ones...


Charging a flying enemy doesn't work all that well, given possible engagement ranges and movement options. And the difficulty of being able to charge flying enemies as a Fighter in the first place.
This is part of the reason for Good Jumper and Feather Step in particular, along with lots of speed bonuses (though I still need to retune those). The idea is to make it so that at higher levels, the character can effectively attack anything within hundreds of feet of any surface (solid or not) just with a melee weapon, or much further distances by pulling out a longbow.


With Rangemaster, you can shoot someone on the other side of the planet. That's a bit... extreme, don't you think?
By 20th level? Not at all. "You can shoot somebody on the moon if you can see that far" would be an expected and happy result at high levels (though I haven't run the numbers to see if that actually works out).

With that said, it would be nice to tune it to be flatter at lower levels and then more exponential past level 10, like I've mentioned for a few other abilities, but that's a mess to put in place without giving it two separate progressions and switching from one to the other at some point.

Mando Knight
2017-02-02, 10:25 PM
Here's a cleaned up version of the table for readability:

Table: The Hero


Level
BAB
Fort
Ref
Will
Special


1st
+1
+2
+2
+2
Focused Weapon, Seasoned, Stalker Sense, Threatening, Trapfinding, World Walker


2nd
+2
+3
+3
+3
Fated, Rangemaster, Shadow Sight, Sure-Footed, Turnabout


3rd
+3
+3
+3
+3
Evasive, Intuitive Senses, Omnitactical, Practiced, Stalwart


4th
+4
+4
+4
+4
Armor Skin, Prepared, State of Grace, Unkillable, Unparalleled


5th
+5
+4
+4
+4
Dynamic Strike, Omnitactical, Muscle Mystery, Stance Breaker, Strong Swimmer


6th
+6
+5
+5
+5
Effortless Dual-Wielding, Inspiring Confidence, Master of Escape, Painful Gambit, Warrior Spirit


7th
+7
+5
+5
+5
Blind Spot, Improved Stalwart, Perfect Fall, Shared Stalker Sense, Vicious Maneuvers


8th
+8
+6
+6
+6
Combat Instinct, Deft, Fast Feet, Fierce Climber, Heavy Training


9th
+9
+6
+6
+6
Item Mastery, Ranged Disable, Shared Evasive, Shared Stalwart, Use the Moment


10th
+10
+7
+7
+7
Enhance Magic Items, Impeccable Balance, Interception, Parry Spell, Punishing Blow


11th
+11
+7
+7
+7
Commanding Presence, Destroyer, Good Jumper, Quick Recovery, Resolute


12th
+12
+8
+8
+8
Dispel Fear, Fearless, Fight On, Secret Paths, Unbreakable Resilience


13th
+13
+8
+8
+8
Juggernaut, Seven-League Leap, Shared Improved Stalwart


14th
+14
+9
+9
+9
Dimensional Grappler, Feather Step, Starfall, Titan's Bane


15th
+15
+9
+9
+9
Cling to Life, Mob Ruler


16th
+16
+10
+10
+10
Inspiring Assault, Unswerving Loyalty


17th
+17
+10
+10
+10



18th
+18
+11
+11
+11



19th
+19
+11
+11
+11



20th
+20
+12
+12
+12




At a quick glance, the class is too unfocused, giving the character a wide variety of features at every single level without much direction. While it might make for a martial-type character who can perform on par with an optimized spellcaster all day every day without inventing a new subsystem, it reads like "have a mishmash of features from existing subsystems."

I'd recommend cutting back on the untiring omni-competence angle, and break it down into a core feature package and a set of specialist packages.

aimlessPolymath
2017-02-03, 12:39 AM
I might have gone overboard with that, too. I don't want it to be completely impossible to cast defensively, but I definitely want it to be distinctly unreliable, instead of the current state of affairs where even after Disruptive spellcasters are basically guaranteed to always cast defensively eventually.

Looking at it at a few different levels, grabbing estimated casting stats from some of the NPCs from the Pathfinder site.
CR 5 (level 7 Human Adept): Concentration +10. At level 5, the DC to cast defensively is increased by 4 + 1 = 5; It's now DC 20 + twice the spell's level to cast defensively. While this guy can't actually cast spells of 4th level, even if he did, he would need to roll 18 for a 4th level spell, 16 for a 3rd, and 14 for a 2nd. If I were him, I wouldn't expect myself to pull off spells of 2nd level consistently.

CR 10 (Human Wizard 5/ Collegiate Arcanist 6): Concentration + 16. Combat Casting to bring that up to +20. At level 10, the DC to cast defensively is increased by 4 + 3*2 = 10. It's now DC 25 + twice the spell's level to cast defensively. While he can probably get off his magic missiles reliably (as in, 50/50 shot of making it), he has a 50/50 shot of managing fireball (and keep in mind the Hero is sitting on evasion/stalwart and a minimum of +15 to saving throws, plus rerolling 1's), and needs a 15 to try a 5th level spell.

CR 19 (Elf Wizard 20): Concentration + 29, Combat Casting. Your penalty: 4 + 2x6 = 16. DC is 31 + twice spell level- this means that the 50/50 point is around 5th level spells, and 9th level spells are out of the question.

Roughly speaking, this nerfs "spell levels I might cast" by half the levels they have available. Of course, this doesn't get into the stupid power that is Use the Moment negating casting defensively almost completely, Resolute and your various save bonuses making you essentially immune to magic, etc.

You put in a lot of options vs. a spellcaster, but to be honest, the only way I see it going is "Does the spellcaster pull out some TO tricks to kill you immediately? Are they outside your reach? If the answer to either of those questions is 'No', then you win".

Against anyone else, I see this getting very, very old, very quickly- especially Combat Patrol + Stand Still + Vicious Maneuvers + Use the Moment. Fighting this guy is going to look like
"I take an action-"
"I take an attack of opportunity against you, dealing (6-10)d6+15 + (3 to 5 times my Strength bonus) damage. Also, you stop moving/hit your own ally, so that action was wasted."

Your attacks of opportunity aren't going to become redundant, because practically everything anyone does provokes.


One thing that is really problematic for this class is the amount of bloat it has. Deft and Fast Feet at the same level? Stalwart and Evasive at the same level, and their Improved versions?You have both find traps as a continuous ability, and trapfinding 4 levels earlier. Do you use both Parry Spell and Use the Moment when you adjacent ally is hit- and can you even use Parry Spell if your movement from Combat Patrol moves you away from your ally for Use the Moment? Fated and Practiced are nearly identical, except for class features that are powered by one of them- can you consistently remember what is affected by Practiced? Do you remember to give yourself Uncanny Dodge at 6th level from Stalker Sense, when you have (Counting... ) 30 different class features at that level? I only just noticed (on the 3rd readthrough) that Omnicompetence also gives you any combat maneuver as an attack action (and it occurs to me that this forms an infinite combo of sorts when combined with Vicious Maneuvers, stacking Dirty Trick: Blinded into Trip:Prone into another Dirty Trick:Whatever into one of the feats that lets you deal damage on an overrun attempt, repeated forever unless you can miss someone with that level of AC debuff on a 2 by after a +20 BAB, a +16 in various bonuses, a minimum of a +5 weapon off Warrior Spirit, etc.)

One way to shorten this and make it easier to comprehend would be to combine class features- Shadow Sight looks like it could be merged with Intuitive Senses, and Strong Swimmer with Fierce Climber, for example. Deft and Fast Feet as separate abilities?

Last point: In your opening points, you said that "The entire class should take no more than a few printed pages." I copied it into my word processor- 8 pages, without copying out the content of the links.

Ziegander
2017-02-03, 01:44 AM
At a quick glance, the class is too unfocused, giving the character a wide variety of features at every single level without much direction. While it might make for a martial-type character who can perform on par with an optimized spellcaster all day every day without inventing a new subsystem, it reads like "have a mishmash of features from existing subsystems."

I'd recommend cutting back on the untiring omni-competence angle, and break it down into a core feature package and a set of specialist packages.

These are my feelings as well. And more than lacking focus, it's just too damn much to expect any player to keep track of all the time. No one is going to remember all of these circumstantial bonuses and abilities.

I tried to design a sort of multi-faceted, super-competent martial class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?328552-The-Freelancer-(What-the-Fighter-would-look-like-if-the-Rogue-didn-t-exist)-D-amp-D-3-5) that was kind of a fighter/rogue/factotum on steroids back in the day, maybe you can take some ideas from it? Not sure how well it compares to the goals you're trying to accomplish, of course, but it does at least read much more clearly and cleanly.

nikkoli
2017-02-03, 01:57 AM
Omnitactical.
Yeah...
But anyway where are most of those feats from, a whole bunch sound neat, but my Google fu seams weak tonight.

Morphic tide
2017-02-03, 11:28 AM
Personally, my ideal mundane fix would have the ability to use every stat to some extent. Perfectly workable with almost any role, using different stats for different things. And them make it use a combination of Grit and Path of War Maneuvers to have some degree of granularity in capabilities. Like, you use the Grit for the stuff that every character of the class can use(Initiative, conditional AC bonuses, crit fishing, rapid attacks and so on) and enhancing the Maneuvers in a manner akin to 3.x Psionics power augmentation, while the maneuver schools/disciplines are focused on enabling two or three play styles on a non-terribly-optimized-Caster-relevant level. As in t2 fights.

Overall, I'd go with having it Intelligence based, as there are no Intelligence based mundane classes I know of in 3.x or PF, and there are already Wisdom and Charisma Grit base classes. Yes, there are archetypes for Intelligence based grit, but no mundane base classes that key their features on Intelligence. Then, each play style would have an additional primary stat rooted in the way the maneuvers/deeds work and the inherent mechanics of the play style, as well as two secondaries based on needed features to make the play style work.

One of the big "things" would be that it should not be able to take any play style to any kind of combat. Which is why the maneuver schools/disciplines would enable two or three play styles, with plenty of overlap. For flying enemies, you need ranged attacks or flight, and you need outside help for flight. Guns/crossbows, bows and thrown weapons would have different sets of maneuvers improving them, with some degree of overlap with each other.

For example of the two above paragraphs, one possible set of Maneuvers could support both two-hander one-hit/round-kill fishing(basically huge burst damage sets) and bow sniping(long ass range and also focused on burst damage). The reasoning? Samurai did a lot of training with bows and two handed weapons, as duel wielding was extremely niche and sword and shield literally did not exist as a Japanese fighting style. And the endless memes of "1000 times folded Nippon steel katana" point at single attack/round kills. Not historically accurate? This is a d20 game, historic accuracy is not exactly important. Although I believe this is much more accurate than most "samurai" fighting styles in fiction. As for stats, this one could have Strength as it's side primary and either Dexterity or Wisdom for the secondary.

Another could be one-handed weapon and shield focused on immense damage taking with crossbows/guns focused on straight up crit fishing as a mix of sniper and tank. This represents the "walking tank" variety of Knights, with the crossbow/gun proficiency being a matter of using this wonderful armor-ignoring thing to deal with others of the same heavy armor status. Not quite historically accurate, but another fluff option is being ready for sieges, performing ambushes, taking out problematic targets and so on in preparation for the melee. Also can represent the cannon of modern tanks to make them closer to literal walking tanks. For stats, this one would have Constitution as it's side primary, with Charisma and Strength as it's secondaries.

Generally, each school/discipline of maneuvers would strive for a melee option and a ranged option, to make it as hard as possible to be unable to contribute in combat. Because having an ubercharger made useless by the DM tossing flying enemies at you is awful.

As for out-of-combat abilities, that would be mostly based on the skills allowed by being Intelligence based with options for focusing on all the other stats, although the option for some of the Maneuver schools/disciplines having maneuvers directly intended to be usable in non-combat situations is an interesting one that makes sense in some cases. Like a Bard-alike buffer that dishes out Moral and Competence bonuses to allies having the ability to spend Grit and use maneuvers for non-magical Diplomancy. A stealth-oriented set could have trap finding, avoiding and disabling options among it's maneuvers. And the best part is that you can grab multiple sets for both combat and non-combat roles.