John Bloody Constantine

[Clopin Silk]

So, this is fairly straightforward. I was wondering how you'd go about statting up John Constantine. Just as a quick refresher of what that would mean, we're dealing with a low-power caster, primarily focused on defensive spells and ways to bind and abjure demons. Bluff, Diplomacy and Intimidate all need to be utterly colossal. To be clear, we're talking about someone who can bluff the Devil, talk the literal incarnation of the Green (the primal force of all plant life) into helping him, and scare GOD into doing things his way. I'll be interested to see what you come up with. #.5 or Pathfinder are both accepted, but please specify which you're using.

[Deadline]

So, this is fairly straightforward. I was wondering how you'd go about statting up John Constantine. Just as a quick refresher of what that would mean, we're dealing with a low-power caster, primarily focused on defensive spells and ways to bind and abjure demons. Bluff, Diplomacy and Intimidate all need to be utterly colossal. To be clear, we're talking about someone who can bluff the Devil, talk the literal incarnation of the Green (the primal force of all plant life) into helping him, and scare GOD into doing things his way. I'll be interested to see what you come up with. #.5 or Pathfinder are both accepted, but please specify which you're using.

Honestly? Spirit Shaman 20, or possibly Spirit Shaman 19/Human Paragon 1 (paired with Able Learner to pick up the handful of skills Constantine is known for). Refluff the nature part of Spirit Shaman and it looks very much like a Supernatural Detective class (abilities to interact with spirits, exorcism, etc.).

[Clopin Silk]

Honestly? Spirit Shaman 20, or possibly Spirit Shaman 19/Human Paragon 1 (paired with Able Learner to pick up the handful of skills Constantine is known for). Refluff the nature part of Spirit Shaman and it looks very much like a Supernatural Detective class (abilities to interact with spirits, exorcism, etc.).
Except that Constantine's greatest power isn't his magic, remember? His greatest advantage is that he can out-think. out-lie, and out-bastard anyone and anything.

[Deadline]

Except that Constantine's greatest power isn't his magic, remember? His greatest advantage is that he can out-think. out-lie, and out-bastard anyone and anything.

Sure, but that isn't really represented mechanically in D&D. You might make a case for a Factotum, which could also work, albeit with less of a focus on the things Constantine can do.

Edit - You could, presumably, also make the case for a Bard (because Glibness makes ridiculous lying powers a reality), but that would require some potentially extensive refluffing or ACF's.

[Bronk]

Maybe - and I'm not sure of the exact details here - have the guy be some kind of reformed cultist.

Constantine originally got all of his powers by falling into the wrong crowd, getting exposed to loads of drugs or whatever, was a rocker for a while, then made a number of ill advised deals with demons, culminating in 'accidentally' turning a little girl into a human sacrifice. Since then, his life has been one magical near disaster after another, and he survives only to see those close to him die horribly in his place. The more recent comics have pretty similar backstories.

I'd go with a reformed evil bard, now with a few levels of sorcerer, wizard, warlock. He's got the charisma and artistry of the bard, the low level magics of the sorcerer, the offense of the warlock, and the basic knowledge of the wizard. The rest is magic items, stolen power, and special knowledge heavy rituals. That last bit makes me want to throw in a few truenamer levels as well.

He's picked up all of the luck feats.

Maybe some custom feat that makes his caster level his character level.

He's picked up all sorts of magic items in his travels that he can lay his hands on easily.

He's got dirt on pretty much anyone he cares to deal with, and for the rest he can dig more up.

On top of that, a boatload of templates, like pseudonatural, anarchic, spellwarped... All gained by a crazy network of faustian pacts that conflict, but he's able to pull it off by playing each demon, devil, or even far realm denizen against each other, and by unknowingly sating their hunger by inflicting bad luck on his friends, and even unwittingly turning them into their human sacrifices.

[Bad Wolf]

Maybe some levels of Nar Demonbinder?

[martixy]

Deadline, you seem to be falling for the trap of thinking the character needs to be 20th level to do the depiction justice. This is exceptionally rarely the case.

Malconvoker seems to fit the fluff, at least later on. For the first levels, well, uh... Archivist?

[Particle_Man]

Not for an exact match to his powers, but for personality I would have gone for beguiler.

[Mehangel]

Here is my take on the John Constantine as a level 5 character using the Sphere of Power (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/) magic system. In short I have him written up as a level 5 hedgewitch with the Charlatanism and Font of Inspiration traditions (but acquired Spiritualism via the Hedgewitch secret: Amateur Spiritualist).


John Constantine
CR 4
Male human hedgewitch (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/hedgewitch) 5
CN Medium humanoid (human)
Init +1; Perception +6
DEFENSE
AC 16, touch 16, flat-footed 10 (+4 Cha, +1 Dex, +1 hedgewitch)
hp 36 (5d8+5+5 FCB)
Fort +2, Ref +2, Will +5
OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft.
Ranged destructive blast +4 touch (2d6 or 4d6 w/ 1sp)
MAGIC
Caster Level 3; MSB +5, MSD 16, Concentration +9
Tradition Addled (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/casting-traditions#toc2) (Drawbacks: Addictive Casting (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/casting-traditions#toc36), Verbal Casting (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/casting-traditions#toc48), Wild Magic (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/casting-traditions#toc49); Boons: Easy Focus (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/casting-traditions#toc130)); CAB Cha
Spell Points 10
Conjuration sphere (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/conjuration) – DC 15, Range Close (35 ft), Talents Summoning (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/advanced-talents#toc13)
- summoning (2sp, 3 HD)
Destruction sphere (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/destruction) – DC 15, Range Close (35 ft), Talents Fire Blast
- destructive blast
Divination sphere (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/divination) – DC 15, Range Medium (130 ft)
- divine (destruction, fate, magic, unnaturals)
- sense (read magic)
Fate sphere (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/fate) – DC 15, Range Close (35 ft)
- consecration (serendipity)
- word (1sp, hallow)
STATISTICS
Str 8, Dex 12, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 19
Base Atk +3; CMB +2; CMD 18
Feats Counterspell, Extra Secret (Extra Spirit) x2, Ritual Caster
Skills Appraise +10, Diplomacy +12, Knowledge (arcana) +10, Perform (act) +12, Sleight of Hand +9, Perception +6, Sense Motive +9, Spellcraft +10, Use Magic Device +12
Languages Celestial, Common, Infernal
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Channel Spirit Allies (4): At a moment's notice John Constantine can adapt to a situation to do one of the following:

Gain any 1 sphere, sphere talent, or combat feat for 1 minute as a move action. (1 use)
Gain any 2 spheres, sphere talents, combat feats (or combination thereof) for 1 minute as a standard action. (2 use)
Guile Pool (5): John Constantine may draw from his guile pool to do one of the following:

+2 bonus to a skill check as a free action. (1 guile point)
Gain Sneak Attack +3d6 for 1 round as swift action. (1 guile point)
Inspiration Pool (5):

+1d6 bonus to any skill check as a free action. (1 inspiration point)
+2 insight bonus to attack and damage for 4 rounds against single target as move action. (1 inspiration point)
Prescient Dodger: John Constantine may add 1 plus his Cha modifier to AC and CMD while unarmored.
Spiritualist’s Knowledge: John Constantine may make Knowledge checks untrained, and may roll twice using the better result.
Versatile Performance: John Constantine may use his Perform (Act) bonus, in place of Bluff or Disguise.
TACTICS
John Constantine will use Channel Spirit Allies to gain any sphere talent or ability that the encounter requires. For example, if Constantine wants to become invisible, he will use 2 uses of Channel Spirit Allies to gain the Illusion sphere + Invisibility talent.
John Constantine will use both Guile and Inspiration to boost any skill checks he makes.


Manny
LG Medium outsider (angel)
Init +1; Perception +0
DEFENSE
AC 14, touch 11, flat-footed 13 (+1 Dex, +3 natural)
hp 19 (3d10+3)
Fort +4, Ref +2, Will +3
Special Defenses evasion
OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft.
Melee 2 Slams +6 (1d4+3)
Ranged destructive blast +4 touch (1d4 or 2d4 w/ 1 sp)
MAGIC
Caster Level 1; MSB +3, MSD 14, Concentration +9
Tradition Divine Petitioner (Drawbacks: Focus Casting, Prepared Caster, Verbal Casting, Aligned Combatant (Destruction), Aligned Protection (Protection), Altered Time (Time); Boons: Easy Focus); CAB Cha
Spell Points 3
Destruction sphere – DC 11, Range Close (25 ft), Talents Radiant Blast
- destructive blast (radiant blast)
Time sphere (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/time) – DC 11, Range Close (25 ft), Talents Time Freeze (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/time#toc16)
- alter time (1sp, time freeze)
STATISTICS
Str 16, Dex 12, Con 13, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 12
Base Atk +3; CMB +6; CMD +7
Feats Extra Magical Talent x2
Skills Knowledge (planes) +4
Languages Celestial
TACTICS
Manny does not directly involve himself in the affairs of mortals, although that does not stop him from freezing time to give John Constantine a bit of cryptic advice before disappearing again. Mechanically, Manny uses 'Aid Another' or use a 'Knowledge (planes)' skill check to aid John.

[Arbane]

Deadline, you seem to be falling for the trap of thinking the character needs to be 20th level to do the depiction justice. This is exceptionally rarely the case.

I remember one issue of his comic where he talked to then killed the King of the Vampires (by accident!), then shortly afterwards got beaten senseless by a pair of angry policemen. Not exactly Level 20 material there...

[Deadline]

Deadline, you seem to be falling for the trap of thinking the character needs to be 20th level to do the depiction justice. This is exceptionally rarely the case.

Malconvoker seems to fit the fluff, at least later on. For the first levels, well, uh... Archivist?

Sorry if I gave you the impression that I thought he needed to be 20th level. I think the spirit shaman class with a dip in human paragon would do him up nicely. I don't think a full 20 level build is necessary, but it does tend to be the norm for build suggestions.

[weckar]

Wouldn't a straight-up rogue with crazy UMD do just fine? As I recall he mostly uses magical objects to do his thing anyway... Maybe some artificer in there so he can finetune them to his liking (which I recall him doing on occasion). Is there a Craft feat for ritual circles? :smallconfused:

[CasualViking]

He's a piss-poor fit for D&D.

He uses a lot of coincidental magic and synchronicity (at least in the original 300-issue run). D&D casters just cast.
Magic usually comes with a price; D&D magic is just phenomenal cosmic power on tap.

[Clopin Silk]

He's a piss-poor fit for D&D.

He uses a lot of coincidental magic and synchronicity (at least in the original 300-issue run). D&D casters just cast.
Magic usually comes with a price; D&D magic is just phenomenal cosmic power on tap.

You know, that's an excellent point. I'd kind of considered that already, but it's always interesting to see what you guys come up with. I have ideas for another thread now, in the same vein, but a little more... interesting.

[Mr Adventurer]

In the more recent stuff I'm sure he uses magic more aggressively. Why not just Warlock? A lot of the Invocations do things he can do, and even though they let you do it all the time, "all the time" and "whenever the plot demands it" look mighty similar.

[you randomly]

i believe the kind of john you are looking for would be a a factotum (for the mad skills), chameleon (because you wont have the highest level of magic but you will be able to pick up and use what ever divine or arcane spell you want to deal with the job)

[Bronk]

He might be part Thrallherd too, considering the number of people who hang around him that should know better...

[Thurbane]

Maybe throw the NPC trait Prodigy (Charisma) (DMG 2) on him to boost all of his Cha based skills and checks...

Also, would the various vestige binding feats be appropriate? I'm not overly familiar with the character, except for the movie which I haven't watched in ages (my friend who is into the comic assures me it's a terrible adaptation).

[mabriss lethe]

In 3.5 he'd be best represented by a mixed bag of minor magic tricks, some good charisma skills and a whole lot of knowledge. So I'm suggesting a truenamer with vestige binding feats, Fiendish heritage feats, and an eventual entry into chameleon.

Powerful? no. but he's got some subtle magic that he can use (and screw up) at will, he's also got the ability to bind entities to grant him some powers. After one too many infernal deals, some of that has begun to leak through into his normal life, and a dip into chameleon lets him snag low level magic from whatever list he needs.

[weckar]

mabriss makes a good point, actually. Truenamer is probably actually the best fit to capture his general abilities.