Alter Self... as an Elan?

[Grod_The_Giant]

What are some good Aberrations to Alter Self into? The Alter Self Handbook points me to the Ineffable Horror (60ft fly, +8 NA, kind of gross), Grell (30ft fly, +4 NA, so much grapple, but probably total blindness?), Dustblight (30ft burrow, +7 NA, actually good physical stats), Runehound (50ft move, +4 NA, track, but... maybe blind?), and Rust Monster (40ft, +5 NA, capable of scaring fighters), but I feel like there must be more out there. I'm looking more for defensive and utility forms than natural attack ones (the character I'm working on has a +2 BAB at level 6). Preferably ones that don't look too gross, given how long Alter Self lasts, but I realize that's a tall order with Aberrations.

(Bonus points for Fine to Tiny Construct forms for a psycrystal!)

[inuyasha]

For the elan, would flumph be a viable form? They get to float around and be mildly acidic, very spiky dinner plates... that's pretty cool.

As for the psicrystal, there isn't a whole lot besides the various animated objects (but I doubt that's what your looking for). If I remember correctly, boguns are tiny sized, so maybe that helps?

[Long_shanks]

Will-o'-wisp: immunity to magic, natural invisibility, +9 deflection to AC

[Grod_The_Giant]

As for the psicrystal, there isn't a whole lot besides the various animated objects (but I doubt that's what your looking for). If I remember correctly, boguns are tiny sized, so maybe that helps?
I figure my best bet is to persuade the DM that since what the animated objects are, I can Alter Self it into any object of the right size.


Will-o'-wisp: immunity to magic, natural invisibility, +9 deflection to AC
9 HD, unfortunately. Also, I'm pretty sure Alter Self wouldn't give me any of those special qualities.

[eggynack]

Will-o'-wisp: immunity to magic, natural invisibility, +9 deflection to AC
I don't think you get any of those things. I've never been sure what the deal is with that deflection bonus, but the text of alter self seems to resolve this in favor of not getting it. Doesn't even look like you get the flight, cause it's not wing based, or the attack, cause it's not mundane. Whole setup pretty much just leaves you as an immobile ball of fluff lying on the ground with no defenses, with only the capability to dismiss the spell because the creature happens to have speech. This amuses me.

Edit: Seriously, what is up with that deflection bonus? Thing has been bugging me on and off for months. Does it have any apparent source? Can form changing pick it up by any means? Like, if you shapechange into a will-o'-wisp, do you get a +9 deflection bonus? The entry for general deflection bonuses implies these are uniformly magic in nature, so you'd expect this to be Su or something, but it's obviously not labeled that way, and the wisp has this whole supernatural as extraordinary thing going on. It's like the whole ability type of spells argument, but in this wispy microcosm that might be even harder to decipher for the lack of other-monster context.

[WhamBamSam]

The Runehound's fancy blindsight is Su, so you can get access to it for a feat. Unfortunately, Elan and Synad natural psionics don't include scaling PLAs, so you don't have easy access to Metamorphic Transfer.

The Wyste (MMII) is a 5 HD Huge Aberration. It takes two castings of Alter Self to springboard up to it from an Elan, but if you're a Slime Lord or have spell slots to burn, it's a neat trick.

Harpoon Spider (MMIII) gives you Improved Trip as a bonus feat (and racial bonus feats let you avoid prereqs). It doesn't give you the Harpooning special attack, but it might give you the ranged fangs sans harpooning as a natural attack. Ask your DM.

Choker gets you Improved Initiative as a bonus feat, reach, and can get you Quickness via Assume Supernatural Ability or Metamorphic Transfer.

Gibbering Mouther gets you 6 bites and +8 NA.

Carrion Crawler's tentacles don't deal damage, but they can come in handy if you've got Stormguard Warrior or something. Warblade/Slime Lord?

[Long_shanks]

I don't think you get any of those things. I've never been sure what the deal is with that deflection bonus, but the text of alter self seems to resolve this in favor of not getting it. Doesn't even look like you get the flight, cause it's not wing based, or the attack, cause it's not mundane. Whole setup pretty much just leaves you as an immobile ball of fluff lying on the ground with no defenses, with only the capability to dismiss the spell because the creature happens to have speech. This amuses me.

Edit: Seriously, what is up with that deflection bonus? Thing has been bugging me on and off for months. Does it have any apparent source? Can form changing pick it up by any means? Like, if you shapechange into a will-o'-wisp, do you get a +9 deflection bonus? The entry for general deflection bonuses implies these are uniformly magic in nature, so you'd expect this to be Su or something, but it's obviously not labeled that way, and the wisp has this whole supernatural as extraordinary thing going on. It's like the whole ability type of spells argument, but in this wispy microcosm that might be even harder to decipher for the lack of other-monster context.

Well then, that was the go-to shape a friend of mine used to transform into as a druid with the aberration wild shape feat. I think we all missed the line that said you don't gain any of the special qualities of the new form. That's my bad for not going back and look if it was legit.

Edit: yeah, the deflection bonus comes out of nowhere. It is not linked to an ability score (unless it's dex, which would be very weird). It just looks like the devs thought that the WoW's AC was too low and just stapled on a random deflection bonus equal to its HD.

[eggynack]

Well then, that was the go-to shape a friend of mine used to transform into as a druid with the aberration wild shape feat. I think we all missed the line that said you don't gain any of the special qualities of the new form. That's my bad for not going back and look if it was legit.
You can just add enhance wild shape (SpC, 82) to make it work fine. And wild shape gets all movement modes naturally, weirdly including supernatural ones, so the speed here works fine where it probably wouldn't on alter self. Wild shape is definitely more expansive than alter self. Part of why it's good.


Edit: yeah, the deflection bonus comes out of nowhere. It is not linked to an ability score (unless it's dex, which would be very weird). It just looks like the devs thought that the WoW's AC was too low and just stapled on a random deflection bonus equal to its HD.
It's a weird thing. As is, it's probably best to imagine it as not there for any and all form swapping, which is weird because you usually get all the AC of whatever form you pick, or otherwise have a clear cut difference to point to.

[Zombimode]

This question is relevant for my new Daelkyr Half-Blood Hexblade, too, so I'm glad that someone brought it up :smallsmile:

The Skulk (MM) is also interesting, at least situationally: swim Speed, 3 rather good natural attacks and humanoid in shape so you keep your equipment.

The Wyste is a nice one I didn't know about.

[Coidzor]

Straight 3.5 the only Tiny Constructs I can recall are Homunculus, Bogun, and Animated Object. Both Bogun and Homunculi can fly, so there's that.

Consulting my list of 3.5 Constructs...

Clockwork Menders, from Monster Manual 4, are Tiny and 1 HD and can count as Homunculi. A Clockwork Mender Swarm is 4 HD, but I don't think that's of much help.

Jade Locusts, from the Arms and Equipment Guide, are Tiny and 3 HD. Can't recall if their physical stats are worth anything, mind. Their stats are listed in the Insatiable Locust magic item, so that might be questionable.

Effigy Creatures, Elder Eidolons, and Ice Beasts can all come in Tiny-sized forms, IIRC. I think a Dust-Stuffed Creature, from one of the Eberron books, can be made from a creature that's Tiny-sized.

Spark Guardians, from Complete Warrior, are Tiny and 2 HD. They can fly.

Demilich Constructs from Tomb of Horrors are Tiny and 9 HD.

Dedicated Wrights and Furtive Filchers from the Eberron Campaign Setting(IIRC) are Tiny, like vanilla Homunculi, and 1 HD. Furtive Filchers are kinda interesting, maybe?

Arbalesters are from Magic of Eberron and are Tiny and 1 HD.

Crawling Claw Swarms from Lost Empires of Faerun are Tiny and 5 HD. Though the Crawling Claw from Monstrous Compendium: Monsters of Faerun are Diminutive and 1 HD.



Snake Heads, from Shadowdale: The Scouring of the Land or something along those lines, are supposed to be Tiny, but I've never been able to get access to the book to know what their stats are like or their number of HD or if a PC can even craft one.

Similarly, the Shadow Simulacrum template from that book seems to be a template that makes a construct version of a creature, but all I know about that one is that there's a Charisma requirement.



As for Diminutive constructs, there's Psicrystals, Crawling Claws(LEoF/MC:MF), Expeditious Messengers(ECS), and Jumping Caltrops(Complete Adventurer), they're all between 1/4 and 1 HD or are variable in the case of Psicrystals.

Only two options for Fine constructs. Shredstorms are a Fine-sized swarm of constructs clocking in at 14 HD from Monster Manual 3, and Bronze Locust Swarms are also Fine-sized and swarms, but have 15 HD and are from Book of Exalted Deeds.

Small constructs

Astral Construct Level 1, 1 HD. Expanded Psionics Handbook.

Gauntlet Guardian, 4 HD. Complete Warrior.

Crossed Swords and Shield Construct, 4 HD. Tomb of Horrors.

Iron Defender, 2 HD. Eberron Campaign Setting.

Umbral Spy, 3 HD. Forge of War.

Packmate, 2 HD. Magic of Eberron.

Persistent Harrier, 2 HD. Magic of Eberron.

Alchemy Beetle, 2 HD. Secrets of Xen'drik.

Guardgoyle, 2 HD. City of Splendors: Waterdeep.

Electrum Horror, 4 HD. Monster Manual 2.

Gold Horror, 8 HD. Monster Manual 2.

Platinum Horror, 12 HD. Monster Manual 2.

Adamantine Horror, 16 HD. Monster Manual 2.

Tatterdemanimal(Raggamoffyn), 1 HD. Monster Manual 2.

Warforged Scout, variable HD. Monster Manual 3.

Clockroach, 1 HD. Monster Manual 4.

Adamantine Spider, 4 HD. Drow of the Underdark.

Advanced forms of Spark Guardian, starting at 5 HD. Complete Warrior.

[WhamBamSam]

I forgot about the Snowcloak, which gives you flight (admittedly only 60ft (average)), and a decent natural attack routine.

I'm not sure if you can actually share Alter Self with a psicrystal under the standard transparency rules, unless you're a StP Erudite or something.

[Bronk]

Dragon 299 and 341 have construct familiars, which are all tiny and smaller...

[unseenmage]

If you're down for using 3.0 Material there's the Minor Servotor (SS) spell, just like Animate Objects but Int and free willed, which doesn't matter for Polymorphing.
One neat bonus is that it still has the 3.0 wording (IF we ignore the SC saying that Awaken Construct replaces it) so you could animate volumes of material instead of individual objects. Could animate a puddle, a pile of Shapesand (Sa) even.

[Thurbane]

Beholderkin, Spectator
Carrion Crawler
Choldrith
Ethereal Filcher
Ethergaunt, Red
Ettercap
Fihyr
Gibbering Mouther
Grell
Grick
Harpoon Spider
Howler Wasp
Ixitxachitl, Average
Ixitxachitl, Vampiric
Kython Broodling
Mindshredder Larva
Neogi, Adult
Phaerimm
Runehound
Rust Monster
Saltor (Illithidae)
Sharn
Skum



Animated Object, Tiny
Bogun
Clockwork Mender
Crawling Claw
Homunculus