PDA

View Full Version : Building the character through PLAY!



Shinizak
2017-02-02, 11:19 PM
hey, so I'm thinking of running a D&D game with some old players, but we've done the character creation shtick for so long that we can barely stomach the idea anymore. So I came up with an IDEA that I need your help with gitp. I want to make the first dungeon to have rooms about the characters discovering themselves (i.e. a dungeon where the characters build their stats as they progress through it) basically this dungeon should be less of a tutorial dungeon, and more of a "hero's journey to start the hero's journey" given game form.

Like, maybe a room where answering more riddles correctly gets you a higher int rating, or sweet talking a living statue ups your charisma or :something I guess, something to rip the monotony out of the character gen process. Something to make each roll for a stat interesting, to make each skill allocation engaging.

WbtE
2017-02-02, 11:28 PM
I guess you're playing an edition with a lengthy character creation process? If you're really sick of that kind of thing you might as well play a lightweight D&D like B/X.

Shinizak
2017-02-02, 11:41 PM
pathfinder. B/X is for 2e, right?

WbtE
2017-02-02, 11:51 PM
pathfinder. B/X is for 2e, right?

B/X was the second swing at the simplified "Basic Dungeons and Dragons" that came out in parallel to 1e & 2e "Advanced Dungeons and Dragons". You can usually make a character in about five minutes, which is convenient because you can get killed that fast, too. :smallcool:

Shinizak
2017-02-03, 12:19 AM
Either way, this thread is more about designing a dungeon around character creation, but now I've got my eyes out for simpler systems. ;]

Herobizkit
2017-02-03, 05:14 AM
I can't remember the name of it, though the title was pretty funny. You use 2d6. You start with one skill, "Do Anything" and have one rank in it. Then you roll dice. If you score boxcars you get a new Rank in whatever you were doing. (For example, if you got boxcars on throwing a shoe, you'd be allowed to spend EXP to learn "Throw Stuff" at rank 2. You get more specialized in throwing as your rank increases: Do Anything 1, Throw Stuff 2, Throw Hubcaps 3, Throw Loose Change 4...) and you can also buy a rank in something spending EXP.

You earn EXP every time you critically fail an action. :3

I'm sure someone will recognize this and remind me what the game system is called. It's super-simple and meant to be very tongue-in-cheek.

lylsyly
2017-02-03, 08:27 AM
Module N4, Treasure Hunt, 1e AD&D, 1986

Starts with 0 level characters and you keep track of the actions they try to perform, leading to the classes they get when they reach level one.

Uncle Pine
2017-02-03, 09:10 AM
I can't remember the name of it, though the title was pretty funny. You use 2d6. You start with one skill, "Do Anything" and have one rank in it. Then you roll dice. If you score boxcars you get a new Rank in whatever you were doing. (For example, if you got boxcars on throwing a shoe, you'd be allowed to spend EXP to learn "Throw Stuff" at rank 2. You get more specialized in throwing as your rank increases: Do Anything 1, Throw Stuff 2, Throw Hubcaps 3, Throw Loose Change 4...) and you can also buy a rank in something spending EXP.

You earn EXP every time you critically fail an action. :3

I'm sure someone will recognize this and remind me what the game system is called. It's super-simple and meant to be very tongue-in-cheek.
This seems simple and interesting. Should you or anyone else remember the name of the system, would you tell us? I'd like to have a more detailed look at it.

Stealth Marmot
2017-02-03, 09:34 AM
You could make the characters level 1 warriors or commoners and have them face puzzles and creatures that hit so weakly that they can survive a couple of hits (d2 damage, or d3-1).

It could work, it would help the players understand what they want to play and add some randomness to the whole deal. It could actually work that the players are going through an adventuring guild's recruiting exercise like with professional sports. So a bard, Barbarian, Fighter, Wizard, etc are watching and saying "Yeah I want that guy." and they recruit them for training.

I have some success with running Central Casting, a background creating manual, and then after the background is created asking what the player wishes to play. This works on a similar concept, except a different method.

Knaight
2017-02-03, 09:45 AM
Either way, this thread is more about designing a dungeon around character creation, but now I've got my eyes out for simpler systems. ;]

See if you can track down the Fudge on the Fly article, which is an article about staggeringly minimalist character creation. Basically you have a bunch of unassigned skill ranks, you assign your single highest skill and a weakness, and you start playing. As you go on, whenever you need to roll a new skill you decide how good your character is at it within the parameters of the unassigned ranks.

Pulling off something similar in Pathfinder is going to be tricky - classes in general muck with the idea in a way that a skill-stat-gift/knack/talent/whatever system doesn't. It is an idea that should transfer pretty well to a lot of things though.

Then you have the matter of the introductory dungeon. I'd be inclined to go with a flash back to a coming of age ritual - one which establishes which PCs are best at various things, and which covers a decent range because it's a coming of age ritual. Then starting with the best people in each category they assign a skill. Everyone else then assigns the skill in order of displayed talent, and are restricted to less than the level of the character before them.

An alternate approach (with a bit more randomness) would be to establish a party composition first - is the party as a whole highly strong, highly martial, highly diplomatic, whatever? Build up a pool of party points in different areas, then have all the characters start pretty standardized. Whenever something comes up for a roll, everyone in the party gets to roll it. Then the best gets a point in whatever the thing is, and the pool diminishes by 1. That number can be played with - maybe everyone gets some, and it's a 4-3-2-1 situation or similar.

Herobizkit
2017-02-04, 06:22 AM
This seems simple and interesting. Should you or anyone else remember the name of the system, would you tell us? I'd like to have a more detailed look at it.It's called "Roll For Shoes".

Here's the entire system.

It uses a d6 pool mechanic for determining success, with both high and low rolls providing opportunities for advancement through the acquisition of "skills" associated with higher dice pools.


Say what you do and roll a number of d6s.
If the sum of your roll is higher than the opposing roll (either another player or the DM), the thing you wanted to happen, happens.
The number of the d6s you roll is determined by the level of skill you have.
At start, you have only one skill: Do anything 1.
If you roll all sixes on your roll, you can get new skill one level higher than the one you used for the action. The skill must be a subset of what happened to you in the action (Say, Athletics 2 if you were climbing a wall, or Teeth of Biting 2 if you were eating a cake).
For every roll you fail, you get 1 XP.
XP can be used to change a die into a 6 for advancement purposes but not for success purposes.

jayem
2017-02-04, 08:17 AM
I can think of 4 'pure' methods (to graft onto an existing system).

The players assign the points they 'always had' as they come across the challenges in the entry dungeon (basically normal character creation, but in an unusual order.
The GM assigns points based on the approach they take to challenges (partic natural if building up a coming of age prequal)
The GM/Player rolls dice to find skills as they attempt things, to find their score (bit random, not quite sure how it would go, would have some 'self' discovery, would really need to be a hybrid I think).
The GM pre-builds the character, and the player doesn't see the levels initially (partic for a Quantum Leapesque start of story) (though having given up player/character identification through creation you'd need to make sure it reappeared through discovery, but could probably have some fun with expectations, and they'd have to trust the GM)

Uncle Pine
2017-02-04, 09:47 AM
It's called "Roll For Shoes".

Here's the entire system.

It uses a d6 pool mechanic for determining success, with both high and low rolls providing opportunities for advancement through the acquisition of "skills" associated with higher dice pools.


Say what you do and roll a number of d6s.
If the sum of your roll is higher than the opposing roll (either another player or the DM), the thing you wanted to happen, happens.
The number of the d6s you roll is determined by the level of skill you have.
At start, you have only one skill: Do anything 1.
If you roll all sixes on your roll, you can get new skill one level higher than the one you used for the action. The skill must be a subset of what happened to you in the action (Say, Athletics 2 if you were climbing a wall, or Teeth of Biting 2 if you were eating a cake).
For every roll you fail, you get 1 XP.
XP can be used to change a die into a 6 for advancement purposes but not for success purposes.


Thanks! :smallsmile:

aberratio ictus
2017-02-04, 10:28 AM
Like, maybe a room where answering more riddles correctly gets you a higher int rating, or sweet talking a living statue ups your charisma or :something I guess, something to rip the monotony out of the character gen process. Something to make each roll for a stat interesting, to make each skill allocation engaging.

How would you deal with the excellent roleplayer and riddle enthusiast who deals with every room brilliantly and that other guy who puts his foot in his mouth and just can`t wrap his mind around your riddle? Especially the last one, depending on your group, might produce some bad blood.

Also, that system probably wouldn`t produce very balanced characters.

MrNobody
2017-02-05, 03:18 PM
hey, so I'm thinking of running a D&D game with some old players, but we've done the character creation shtick for so long that we can barely stomach the idea anymore. So I came up with an IDEA that I need your help with gitp. I want to make the first dungeon to have rooms about the characters discovering themselves (i.e. a dungeon where the characters build their stats as they progress through it) basically this dungeon should be less of a tutorial dungeon, and more of a "hero's journey to start the hero's journey" given game form.

Like, maybe a room where answering more riddles correctly gets you a higher int rating, or sweet talking a living statue ups your charisma or :something I guess, something to rip the monotony out of the character gen process. Something to make each roll for a stat interesting, to make each skill allocation engaging.

I think that building a PC point by point could take too long and be too difficult, resulting in something way more boring than the standard creation.

I'd suggest starting this kind of dungeon asking the players to roll their stats (without assigning them), choose their alignment and give a brief description of their pc's mindset.

My player will be a fearless NE, always up for a fight, stubborn and selfish. He can be kind to people in needs, but only to take advantage of them as soon as possible. I rolled 16, 12, 12, 11, 8, 14

Then you could put the PC's inside a room with a single barred door, from which they have to escape. Fill the room with object, stange paintings, small traps, and everything that you could think about. Everytime a character tries to do something, ask them how much their PC is good at doing that, to assign one of the ability he rolled accordingly to their thought and then roll to see if they menage to accomplish the action.

Player: I lift a chair and try to crash the door!
DM: Do you think that your PC is really good at doing this?
Player: Mmm... maybe not that good, but he is violent, and this would be his first try for sure. I'm putting a 12 in Strenght and try!

You may want to keep the PCs inside the room until everybody has assigned in this way every rolled score or, if someone manage to open the door before that others have managed to assign their score, you can allow them to freely assign them as they leave to room.

Once the group has escaped, you can have them move to a similar setting (another room, a secluded garden, a cave) from which they have to escape, and here their actions will affect their class choice.
Since this could take long, you could put up series of multiple choice situations to make class assignment faster. This part may require the DM a lot of improvisation, to follow the players decisions: if you are lucky you will be able to assign both the base class and the eventual archetypes at the same time.

DM: Ok player 1, you see a bird on an high column, it looks like it is sitting on some sort of switch. At the base of the column you see different objects: a small pouch containing seeds, a whistle, a couple of rocks, a bird-like puppet...
Player 1: i try to hit him with a rock!
DM: ... you still miss and...
Player1: I TRY AGAIN!!!
DM: there are no more stones le...
Player 1: I HURL THE POUCH, AND IF I MISS I HURL THE PUPPET, AND IF I MISS I HURL THE WHISTLE, AND IF I MISS...
DM: ok, ok player one. It is clear that you are a barbarian with the Hurler Archetype!

Once you are here, you could leave the rest to the standard system, allowing players to assign their skill point and feats, and start playing, or going on proprosing this kind of setting with more and more specific situations to assign skill point, known spell and so on...

lylsyly
2017-02-05, 04:10 PM
I think ........... known spell and so on...

I think that is really good, well played sir. consider it stolen :smallbiggrin:

Koo Rehtorb
2017-02-05, 05:49 PM
Something funny you can do is just start the group with like three 0th level characters each with nothing to them beyond their 3d6 statlines and maybe one area of expertise based on their profession "logging", "smithing", etc. Then immediately throw them into the meat grinder and the ones that come out the other side become 1st level characters.

It would certainly cut down on character generation time if they're all identical except for their quickly rolled stats.

Arbane
2017-02-05, 10:33 PM
Something funny you can do is just start the group with like three 0th level characters each with nothing to them beyond their 3d6 statlines and maybe one area of expertise based on their profession "logging", "smithing", etc. Then immediately throw them into the meat grinder and the ones that come out the other side become 1st level characters.

It would certainly cut down on character generation time if they're all identical except for their quickly rolled stats.

The retro-AD&D game Dungeon Crawl Classics does exactly that. It's called 'The Funnel'.

MrNobody
2017-02-06, 03:27 PM
I think that is really good, well played sir. consider it stolen :smallbiggrin:

Consider yourself allowed to steal it!!! :smallbiggrin:

Rockphed
2017-02-07, 03:44 PM
Consider yourself allowed to steal it!!! :smallbiggrin:

But if he is allowed to take it, it isn't stealing!

Stealth Marmot
2017-02-07, 04:25 PM
But if he is allowed to take it, it isn't stealing!

It's Alternative Stealing.