[3.5] Call Weaponry: Unarmed Strike [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

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Uncle Pine

2017-02-03, 03:40 AM

Call Weaponry
Psychoportation (Teleportation)
Level: Psychic warrior 1
Display: Material
Manifesting Time: 1 round
Range: 0 ft.
Effect: One weapon; see text
Duration: 1 min./level; see text (D)
Saving Throw: None
Power Resistance: No
Power Points: 1
You call a weapon “from thin air” into your waiting hand (actually, it is a real weapon hailing from another location in space and time). You don’t have to see or know of a weapon to call it—in fact, you can’t call a specific weapon; you just specify the kind. If you call a projectile weapon, it comes with 3d6 nonmagical bolts, arrows, or sling bullets, as appropriate. The weapon is made of ordinary materials as appropriate for its kind. If you relinquish your grip on the weapon you called for 2 or more consecutive rounds, it automatically returns to wherever it originated.

Weapons gained by call weaponry are distinctive due to their astral glimmer. They are considered magic weapons and thus are effective against damage reduction that requires a magic weapon to overcome.

Augment
For every 4 additional power points you spend, this power improves the weapon’s enhancement bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls by 1.

Soulbound Weapon

You can summon a specific weapon to your hand that is bound to your very soul.
Level: 1st and 2nd.
Replaces: You lose your 2nd-level bonus feat.
Benefit: You must choose a soulbound weapon at 1st level and you gain the Weapon Focus feat with this weapon. Also, the first power you learn must be call weaponry. You can summon your chosen soulbound weapon to your hand using call weaponry.

At 2nd level, you gain the soulbound weaponclass ability, and the weapon you summon using call weaponry is of the same type as you chose at 1st level. Its physical appearance slowly changes, growing in power as you do. You must manifest the power call weaponry to obtain your soulbound weapon; you retain the weapon for the duration of the power. You may still use the call weaponry power as normal if you wish. This is a specific weapon every time you summon it, and it automatically gains a weapon enhancement at the following levels:

4th +1 weapon
8th +2 weapon
12th +3 weapon
16th +4 weapon
20th +5 weapon
Also, add the following augmentation to your call weaponry power:

Augmentation: When you manifest your soulbound weapon, for each additional 5 power points you spend, you may add a weapon enhancement of +1 value to the weapon. For example, if you spend an additional 10 power points, you could add two +1 weapon enhancements or a single +2 weapon enhancement.

An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon.

Call Weaponry allows you to call a specific type of weapon out of thin air. Unarmed strike is a specific type of weapon. What happens if a Psychic Warrior calls for one?
I believe a RAW consensus is unlikely to be reached, but what do you think should happen?

Someone else's unarmed strike appears in the Psychic Warrior's hands: this chopped hand, severed arm, monk's kneecap or whatnot can be used by the character as an improvised weapon. (This is most likely the closest interpretation to RAW)
The Psychic Warrior's unarmed strike is enhanced based on the amount of power point she spent. For example, if she spent 5 power points her unarmed strike would obtain a +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls for the duration of the power, whilst if a 16th-level Psychic Warrior with the Soulbound Weapon ACF manifested the power spending 16 power points her unarmed strike would obtain a +4 enhancement bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls and a +3 weapon enhancement (or three +1 enhancement, or a +2 enhancement and a +1 enhancement). If the basic version of this power is manifested, nothing happens because everyone already has unarmed attacks.
A random character or creature is summoned. After all, everyone can make unarmed strikes and there's no thing as a "detached unarmed strike". The summoned creature could aid the Psychic Warrior at the best of his capabilities, assuming she manages to convince it to. Unless the Psychic Warrior grabs or wields the summoned creature in some way, it automatically returns to wherever it originated after 2 rounds.
A random character or creature with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat is summoned. After all, it would be awkward to call for an unarmed strike and summon a bear, a Wizard or even a bear Wizard that doesn't attack with unarmed strikes at all! Otherwise, same as b.
A random character with levels in Monk, Unarmed Swordsage and/or any other class that grants the Unarmed Strike class feature as Monks is summoned. Due to how their class abilities are worded, Monks are commonly considered to be the only characters that can consider their whole body as a single unarmed strike: allow any other character to be summoned and you'll end with one of their single (detached) unarmed strikes in your hand instead of an entire creature. Otherwise, same as b.
Something else??? Please specify in your comment.

What changes if we specifically consider the scenario of a Psychic Warrior calling for a magical (+1 or greater) unarmed strike?

The unarmed strike of a warforged with the Adamantine Body or Mithril Body feat OR that of a Kensai appears in place of a random one in the Psychic Warrior's hands, as these are the only ways to enchant an unarmed strike regardless of whether it's attached to a body wearing a Necklace of Natural Weapons or not.
The Psychic Warrior's unarmed strike is enhanced based on the amount of power point she spent. See above.
, d. and e. A random character or creature that is either a warforged with the Adamantine Body or Mithril Body feat, a Kensai or is wearing a Necklace of Natural Weapon or Amulet of Mighty Fists is summoned. About whether the creature needs to have the Improved Unarmed Strike feat and/or levels in Monk, Unarmed Swordsage, etc. see above.

All these interpretations have different pros and somewhat similar cons.
Pros: a. allows easy access to an enchanted improvised weapon, which is important because normally you can't enchant one because they're only considered weapons but don't work as such; b. is yet another way to enhance unarmed strikes, of which there are only a handful, although compared to other ones this is free and only lasts 1 minute/level; c., d. and e. let you pull a creature out of another place and time on command, which is kind of awesome.
Cons: the vast majority of these look extremely silly, "I summon my +5 vorpal mother" level silly (assuming your mother has the Versatile Unarmed Strike feat). Moreover, the duration of c., d. and e. is extremely short unless you waste actions to grab/wield your summon every couple of rounds, whatever that entails. The summoning effect is also random: it's technically possible to summon a LG 20th-level character to help you fight the 5th-level BBEG, but realistically speaking it's plausible for 80-95% of all the characters that ever existed to be weak 1st-level ones, which would lead to statistically weak summons.

Tables like the ones found in DMG 110-112 (4-7: Random NPC alignment, 4-8: Random NPC class, 4-9: Good NPC race or kind, 4-10: Neutral NPC race or kind and 4-11: Evil NPC race or kind) and DMG 138 (Total Characters of Each Class) can be used in place of custom ones to determine the kind of character you'd summon with this power and its level. Your mileage may vary, so ask your DM.

Thoughts?

ShurikVch

2017-02-03, 03:51 AM

If you manifest Call Weaponry for Unarmed Strike, then you (finally!) will be able to TWF with it; other than that - there shouldn't be any notable effect

The more interesting question: how it will work for natural weapons?
Especially - such unusual ones as Light Ray (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/archon.htm#lanternArchon) (or electricity ray (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm#anaxim)!)

Also, Breath Weapon is weapon too!

Pleh

2017-02-03, 07:05 AM

As a DM, I want to say it fizzles.

Even though Unarmed Strike is considered a weapon, it's just a part of a creature. Remember that even the fist of a normal human wizard is still "considered a weapon." Just a nonlethal weapon. A Monk's unarmed strike can be a lethal weapon if they choose, but that is based on their skill as a pugilist, not a physical transformation of their hand's properties. So even if you summon a Monk's kneecap, it isn't a lethal improvised weapon. Might be better off summoning the stinger from a Giant Scorpion's tail an gaining a piercing weapon with poison.

After all, if you can summon an unarmed strike, why can't you summon a creature's Natural Weapons? There's a good deal of argument around here that Unarmed Strike is technically a special subset of Natural Attacks. (In fact, that's probably what the RAI the authors would recommend if they were here).

I guess at that point it would be worth considering if it is fair to use this ability to call an improvised weapon at all, since ANY object could be improvised as a weapon. Can a psychic warrior technically summon ANY object at all if they wish to use it as an improvised weapon?

Seems to be REALLY abusive of RAI. If it were my table, I'd say this power can only apply to truly manufactured weapons (not just any weapon that is "considered" to be like a manufactured weapon).

I mean, unless they were using some weird BoVD shenanigans and wielding severed limbs was just something they wanted to go the extra mile to be able to do. Then we could amend the rules with houserules to let them play their character.

Darrin

2017-02-03, 10:02 AM

If you manifest Call Weaponry for Unarmed Strike, then you (finally!) will be able to TWF with it; other than that - there shouldn't be any notable effect

That made my morning. Thanks!

Someone else's unarmed strike appears in the Psychic Warrior's hands: this chopped hand, severed arm, monk's kneecap or whatnot can be used by the character as an improvised weapon.

The People's Elbow, indeed. As if they didn't suffer enough already, I'm now tempted to pull this on a monk PC: "Your kneecap disappeared." "WHAT?" "Don't worry, it'll be back in a few rounds."

Are there any other interesting natural weapons that you might want to call?

Uncle Pine

2017-02-03, 10:33 AM

Even though Unarmed Strike is considered a weapon, it's just a part of a creature. Remember that even the fist of a normal human wizard is still "considered a weapon." Just a nonlethal weapon. A Monk's unarmed strike can be a lethal weapon if they choose, but that is based on their skill as a pugilist, not a physical transformation of their hand's properties. So even if you summon a Monk's kneecap, it isn't a lethal improvised weapon. Might be better off summoning the stinger from a Giant Scorpion's tail an gaining a piercing weapon with poison.
Unarmed strike isn't only considered a weapon. It's also listed in the Table: Weapons (right above the dagger and right below the gauntler). An unarmed strike is a weapon. You're right that it's part of a creature (or a whole creature, if it's a Monk's) and that it deals nonlethal damage, but it's still a weapon.

After all, if you can summon an unarmed strike, why can't you summon a creature's Natural Weapons? There's a good deal of argument around here that Unarmed Strike is technically a special subset of Natural Attacks. (In fact, that's probably what the RAI the authors would recommend if they were here).
You're right, I didn't address natural weapons because I was specifically thinking about Call Weaponry: Unarmed Strike. However, natural weapons are indeed weapons:

Natural Weapons
Natural weapons are weapons that are physically a part of a creature.
Whether or not you'd be able to call for a specific creature's stinger or just any stinger remains unclear. It's the same situation as calling for any unarmed strike or a Monk's unarmed strike (therefore summoning a whole Monk).

I guess at that point it would be worth considering if it is fair to use this ability to call an improvised weapon at all, since ANY object could be improvised as a weapon. Can a psychic warrior technically summon ANY object at all if they wish to use it as an improvised weapon?
An argument could be made that improvised weapons are only treated as such when they're wielded, which means that you can't call a chair because it's only a(n improvised) weapon if someone wields it.

Would an order of LN Psychic Warriors be interested in pursuing the end of all the tavern brawls in every place and every time by continuously spamming Call Weaponry (chair, table, mug, card, etc.) so that all those items wielded as weapons temporarily disappear?

SirNibbles

2017-02-03, 10:48 AM

Unarmed strike isn't only considered a weapon. It's also listed in the Table: Weapons (right above the dagger and right below the gauntler). An unarmed strike is a weapon. You're right that it's part of a creature (or a whole creature, if it's a Monk's) and that it deals nonlethal damage, but it's still a weapon.

You're right, I didn't address natural weapons because I was specifically thinking about Call Weaponry: Unarmed Strike. However, natural weapons are indeed weapons:

Whether or not you'd be able to call for a specific creature's stinger or just any stinger remains unclear. It's the same situation as calling for any unarmed strike or a Monk's unarmed strike (therefore summoning a whole Monk).

An argument could be made that improvised weapons are only treated as such when they're wielded, which means that you can't call a chair because it's only a(n improvised) weapon if someone wields it.

Would an order of LN Psychic Warriors be interested in pursuing the end of all the tavern brawls in every place and every time by continuously spamming Call Weaponry (chair, table, mug, card, etc.) so that all those items wielded as weapons temporarily disappear?

Unarmed Attack | Unarmed Strike | Natural Attack | Natural Weapon

Disclaimer:All material used is published under the OGL and/or being used under Fair Use, 17 U.S.C. § 107.

Sources, in order of reference: Rules Compendium, page 16; Player's Handbook, page 116

UNARMED ATTACKS
Striking with punches and kicks is like attacking with a
melee weapon, except that such attacks usually provoke an
attack of opportunity from the foe you attack, provided that
opponent is armed. The attack of opportunity comes before
your attack. An unarmed attack doesn’t provoke attacks of
opportunity from other foes, nor does it provoke an attack
of opportunity from an unarmed foe. An unarmed creature
can’t make attacks of opportunity.

_

Properties of Unarmed Attacks:
-identical to using a melee weapon, with the following exceptions:

-provoke AoO from the person you attack
-cannot make attacks of opportunity

Simple Weapons

Unarmed Attacks

Gauntlet
Unarmed Strike
Light Melee Weapons

_

Properties of Unarmed Attacks:
-Unarmed Attacks are Simple Weapons
-two weapons are considered to be Unarmed Attacks: the Gauntlet and the Unarmed Strike

Properties of Unarmed Attacks:
-identical to using a melee weapon, with the following exceptions:

-provoke AoO from the person you attack
-cannot make attacks of opportunity
-Unarmed Attacks are Simple Weapons
-two weapons are considered to be Unarmed Attacks: the Gauntlet and the Unarmed Strike

Sources, in order of reference: Player's Handbook, page 116; Player's Handbook, page 121

Simple Weapons

Unarmed Attacks

Gauntlet
Unarmed Strike
Light Melee Weapons

_

Properties of Unarmed Strikes:
-Unarmed Strikes are a type of Unarmed Attack
-Unarmed Strikes are a Simple Weapon

Strike, Unarmed: A Medium character deals 1d3 points of
nonlethal damage with an unarmed strike, which may be a punch,
kick, head butt, or other type of attack. A Small character deals 1d2
points of nonlethal damage. A monk or any character with the
Improved Unarmed Strike feat can deal lethal or nonlethal damage
with unarmed strikes, at her option. The damage from an unarmed
strike is considered weapon damage for the purposes of effects that
give you a bonus on weapon damage rolls.

An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon. Therefore,
you can use the Weapon Finesse feat (page 102) to apply your
Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls
with an unarmed strike.

_

Properties of Unarmed Strikes:
-Unarmed Strikes deal nonlethal damage
-any character with the Improved Unarmed Strike can deal lethal or nonlethal damage, at their option
-Unarmed Strike damage counts as weapon damage for the purposes of effects that give you a bonus to weapon damage
-an Unarmed Strike is always considered a light weapon

Properties of Unarmed Strikes:
-Unarmed Strikes are a type of Unarmed Attack
-Unarmed Strikes are a Simple Weapon
-Unarmed Strikes deal nonlethal damage
-any character with the Improved Unarmed Strike can deal lethal or nonlethal damage, at their option
-Unarmed Strike damage counts as weapon damage for the purposes of effects that give you a bonus to weapon damage
-an Unarmed Strike is always considered a light weapon

Sources, in order of reference: Rules Compendium, page 100

Natural Attacks

Natural attacks come in two forms—natural weapons and
special attacks. Natural weapons, such as fangs or claws, are
physically a part of a creature. Special attacks are special
ways a creature can use its inborn attributes to harm other
creatures.

_

Properties of Natural Attacks:
-Natural Attacks are either natural weapons (like claws or tentacles) or special attacks (like breath or gaze attacks)

Properties of Natural Attacks:
-Natural Attacks are either natural weapons (like claws or tentacles) or special attacks (like breath or gaze attacks)

Sources, in order of reference: Rules Compendium, page 100; Rules Compendium, page 16; Rules Compendium, page 45

ATTACKS

A creature making a melee attack with a natural weapon is
considered armed and doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity.
Likewise, it threatens any space it can reach. Unless otherwise
noted, a natural weapon threatens a critical hit on a natural
attack roll of 20.

Creatures don’t receive additional attacks from a high base attack
bonus when using natural weapons. The number of attacks
a creature can make with its natural weapons depends on the
type of the attack—a creature can make one bite attack,
one attack per claw or tentacle, one gore attack, one sting attack,
or one slam attack. Large or larger creatures that have
arms or armlike limbs can make a slam attack with each arm.
Refer to the individual monster descriptions, which take
precedence over these general rules.

_

Properties of Natural Weapons:
-creatures attacking with Natural Weapons are considered armed and don't provoke AoOs
-Threatens any space it can reach
-don't receive additional attacks from a high base attack bonus
-attack number based on the type of attack

Natural Weapons
A creature that has a natural weapon, such as a claw or slam,
is considered armed. It can make unarmed attacks, but it can’t
use its natural weapons as if they were unarmed attacks, nor
can it apply abilities that affect only unarmed attacks to its
natural weapons.

_

Properties of Natural Weapons:
-considered armed
-can't use Natural Weapons to make unarmed attacks
-can't apply abilities that affect only unarmed attacks to its natural weapons

Unarmed strikes and natural weapons are considered
light weapons

_

Properties of Natural Weapons
-they are considered light weapons

Properties of Natural Weapons:
-creatures attacking with Natural Weapons are considered armed and don't provoke AoOs
-Threatens any space it can reach
-don't receive additional attacks from a high base attack bonus
-attack number based on the type of attack
-they are considered light weapons

Pleh

2017-02-03, 10:51 AM

Uncle Pine

2017-02-03, 11:01 AM

I'm... unsure about what I should do with what SirNibbles posted, as he just listed a bunch of rules I know about without actually stating anything. :smallconfused:

Thank you for linking the threads Pleh, I'll look at them and see if I can make heads or tails of the post before yours.

Pleh

2017-02-03, 11:02 AM

Oh, and I don't think Call Weaponry offers any language to support the idea that it would magically summon a whole Monk as a creature. That is silliness to unthinkable levels.

So this monk you're summoning (despite being a creature and not a weapon) appears "out of thin air" into your waiting hand? Does it come with ammunition since a Monk could throw Shuriken?

If you relinquish your Grip on the Monk for 2 or more consecutive rounds, does he go poof?

Can you even manage to maintain a grapple on the monk for that long?

Is the monk distinctive due to its astral glimmer?

Nonsense. The whole thing is nonsense. Go home, Call Weaponry, you're drunk.

EDIT: Repeat the same argument, substitute "Angry Giant Scorpion" in place of "Monk."

Uncle Pine

2017-02-03, 01:03 PM

Oh, and I don't think Call Weaponry offers any language to support the idea that it would magically summon a whole Monk as a creature. That is silliness to unthinkable levels.
It's based on the interpretation that any creature has a single unarmed strike and that they can be brought with any part of its body. This leads to interesting consequences when you're using something like a +1 flaming necklace of natural weapons, as a Monk's entire body is effectively a single weapon.
Calling a Monk weapon is indeed silly, but as I mentioned in the OP I don't think it's RAW. More like an interesting bartering subject, considering the rules surrounding Monks.

So this monk you're summoning (despite being a creature and not a weapon) appears "out of thin air" into your waiting hand? Does it come with ammunition since a Monk could throw Shuriken?
Yes.
No, because unarmed strikes (or monks) aren't projectile weapons. The best I could do so far was turning unarmed strikes into ranged weapons (+1 throwing necklace of natural weapons).

If you relinquish your Grip on the Monk for 2 or more consecutive rounds, does he go poof?
Yes, I've covered that part.

Can you even manage to maintain a grapple on the monk for that long?
Mantaining a grapple isn't necessary, or even overly difficult unless you happen to summon a Monk of a level particularly higher than you. It is unclear what mantaining a grip on a Monk would entail, but you're probably fine squeezing the Monk's arm or butt once every 12 seconds.

Is the monk distinctive due to its astral glimmer?
Yes. He's also able to bypass damage reductions such as X/magic.

Nonsense. The whole thing is nonsense. Go home, Call Weaponry, you're drunk.
This could be said about a lot of perfectly RAW subjects. Options b., c., d. and e. are most likely not RAW, but they're still funny. I thought it would've been interesting to discuss them.

EDIT: Repeat the same argument, substitute "Angry Giant Scorpion" in place of "Monk."

The stinger of a scorpion can't in any way be considered a whole giant scorpion, although you could try to call for an awakened giant scorpion Monk. That said, I'll state again that the purpose of this thread weren't natural weapons and how their definitions interact with the nature of unarmed strike and/or attacks. The whole matter suddenly oozed in and I had to spend a little more than one hour going over a thread at the end of which the three arguing parts didn't even reach a consensus only to discover that I could've typed the rest of this answer even without doing it because it barely grazes the subject at hand.

Ursus Spelaeus

2017-02-03, 01:16 PM

This is a bit of a tangent, but can you use Call Weaponry to summon splash weapons, such as flasks of alchemist's fire?

Uncle Pine

2017-02-03, 01:29 PM

This is a bit of a tangent, but can you use Call Weaponry to summon splash weapons, such as flasks of alchemist's fire?

Despite flasks of alchemist's fire being listed under goods and services instead of weapons, "splash weapon" is a defined subcategory of ranged weapons so the answer is yes. You only call a single flask with each use of the power.
That said, I have no idea how some weapon enhancements (sizing, to mention one) would interact with this and the RAW is obviously silent, so ask your DM if you want to go beyond the mere +5 shocking flaming dislocating flask of alchemist's fire and call for more complex combinations.

nijineko

2017-02-03, 11:56 PM

I'd probably be pretty boring in my interpretation and just go with some limb wraps/bands or something similar which would give a "visible" boost, but otherwise have no additional mechanical effect other than what the abilities already allow for.

However, i must say that i find some of the suggestions presented quite humorous, and would be tempted to inject them into a less serious campaign.

Pleh

2017-02-04, 10:12 AM

SirNibbles

2017-02-04, 11:01 AM

I mentioned the other threads not because they achieved consensus, but to demonstrate that any time you want to manipulate the rules about how monk unarmed strikes work, you're going to find about three different responses to what you're doing. The RAW is very extensively up for debate, so your arguments about how it should be considered need to preface your point by making an assumed interpretation, not relying on any existing established RAW, because no one really trusts the RAW there. You can pick an interpretation and declare your trick to depend on your assumption, but there's no resolved RAW that must be accepted.

Funny thing, if you summon a monk's hand in each hand, you can argue for TWF with them.

But if you wield two Monks as weapons, the monk unarmed strike rules still say there is no such thing as an offhand attack for their unarmed strike and your two monks might have to take turns attacking.

And then you have the TWF feat that says, "If your off-hand weapon is light the penalties are reduced by 2 each. (An unarmed strike is always considered light.)"

And you have the City Brawler Barbarian ACF which gains the benefits of TWF/ITWF/GTWF only when fighting unarmed.

As you said, there is so much that could make a person swing one way or the other. Each new piece of information can cause a person to go either way.

__

My post above was to point out that Unarmed Strikes are not Natural Weapons based on the fact that they have more differences than they do similarities.

Ursus Spelaeus

2017-02-04, 02:09 PM

Here's another question:

Can I use Call Weaponry to call a mind blade? If so, does that count as the ability to form a mind blade for purposes of feats and prestige classes that require it?

*edit*

Nevermind. The mind blade would dissipate shortly after leaving the hands of whatever poor soulknife I called it away from.

Uncle Pine

2017-02-04, 02:18 PM

Here's another question:

Can I use Call Weaponry to call a mind blade? If so, does that count as the ability to form a mind blade for purposes of feats and prestige classes that require it?
You can call a short sword. Even if you could call a mindblade, green light flash included, it would still not count as the ability to form a mind blade because you lack that class feature and you aren't even forming it: you're just calling for an already formed one.

nijineko

2017-02-06, 01:19 PM

You can call a short sword. Even if you could call a mindblade, green light flash included, it would still not count as the ability to form a mind blade because you lack that class feature and you aren't even forming it: you're just calling for an already formed one.

...which would probably promptly dissipate as the soulknife who formed it is no longer holding it.

Also, even if an unarmed strike is always light, if you get the whole monk, as it were, i doubt that they themselves would count as light.

Having said that, it would be a most amusing method of summoning your monk party member to your side, especially if you are strong enough to throw them.... cannonball strike with (semi) auto returning, anyone?

that or it might summon your own hand... or other body part... to your other hand, which could get awkward, and messy.

Uncle Pine

2017-02-06, 02:01 PM

Also, even if an unarmed strike is always light, if you get the whole monk, as it were, i doubt that they themselves would count as light.
Unarmed strike is a light weapon, so the monk in question can use it as a light weapon, but if you're smashing people with the whole monk you could only use him/her as a light improvised weapon if the monk weighted up to 2 pounds (assuming your size is Medium).

Dagroth

2017-02-06, 02:22 PM

Our group has always said that Monks can get TWF (because melee needs help) with unarmed strikes.

I also agree that the Call Weaponry power would either simply empower the user's own body, or create some sort of hand-wraps that provide the effect... even over magical gloves.

Speaking of magical gloves... If you make Adamantine thread and make gloves (or sap gloves) & Adamantine-Toed boots... would your Monk then be able to bypass the DR of Golems?

The rules specifically say you can put the Magic Vestment spell on a cloth shirt (which would give a Wizard, Monk or Sorcerer an armor bonus without wearing armor)... heck, there's even the Robe of the Arch-Magi which gives an armor bonus of +5. So could you make cloth gloves/fist-wraps/boots/etc. for a Monk that could be enchanted like weapons?

daremetoidareyo

2017-02-06, 09:02 PM

The monk doesn't have to be alive...or have all of its limbs.

It was obvious that a conflagration was about to erupt between the goblins and the psychic warrior

"I call upon my soulbound weapon, THE UNARMED STRIKE."

A rotting human arm appears in the psychic warrior's hand.

The psychic warrior looked a little perplexed and then shrugged.

The goblins laughed.

One of them stopped laughing when he was brained by the disarticulated limb.

Pleh

2017-02-07, 08:57 AM

Unarmed strike is a light weapon, so the monk in question can use it as a light weapon, but if you're smashing people with the whole monk you could only use him/her as a light improvised weapon if the monk weighted up to 2 pounds (assuming your size is Medium).

But wielding another creature in your hand is not an unarmed strike. That is an improvised weapon (as would a monk's disembodied appendage).

I still think the best, most consistent answer is just that you gain the buffs to your own, natural hands.

Please note that while Call Weaponry and Soulbound grant bonuses to weapons and unarmed strike is considered a weapon, nothing in CW or SB make unarmed strike deal lethal damage.

Uncle Pine

2017-02-07, 09:42 AM

But wielding another creature in your hand is not an unarmed strike. That is an improvised weapon (as would a monk's disembodied appendage).
That's exactly what I've said.

if you're smashing people with the whole monk you could only use him/her as a light improvised weapon if the monk weighted up to 2 pounds (assuming your size is Medium).

Pleh

2017-02-07, 09:53 AM

Sorry, I was writing that between running errands and before eating breakfast, so I wasn't in the clearest state of mind. Carry on.

ShaneMRoth

2017-02-18, 08:03 AM

I would adjudicate this as follows:

I would disallow this use of the power, telling the player that his (or her) character knows it won't work.

If the player didn't take the hint and insisted on "trying" anyway, the call would fail and the points would be spent.

If pressed for the reasons for my ruling, it would go something like this--

At my table, the word "unarmed" means "weaponless". Therefore, an unarmed strike is a weaponless strike.

At my table, a strike is an event, not an object. Therefore, you could no more use this power to call a "strike" than you could use this power to call a "stab". By that virtue, whatever object the power calls is a weapon and using that object to make an attack is in no way an unarmed strike.

Even if (under the auspices of the Rule of Cool) I could be persuaded to allow the power to call a dismembered fist, foot, or other body part, the called body part would be considered an improvised weapon. It would not qualify, at my table, as an unarmed strike.

If your player-character cuts off a monk's arm and attempted to hit an opponent with that arm, your character is not making an unarmed strike. Your character is using someone else's arm as an improvised weapon. Improvised weapon rules would play, not unarmed strike rules.

But that's at my table.

If I'm not the GM, I might try to make a case for my ruling, if I could do it quickly and I thought it would make a difference. But when I'm a player, I'm normally so relieved that I don't have to make decisions like this that I routinely just abide the GM's decision without comment.

daremetoidareyo

2017-02-18, 10:15 AM

But wielding another creature in your hand is not an unarmed strike. That is an improvised weapon (as would a monk's disembodied appendage).

But wielding another dead creature's severed arm is indeed an Un-Armed Strike.

Pleh

2017-02-18, 11:08 AM

Cute, but you know that pun-erific misinterpretations do not RAW make.

Nice try, though.