Build request: Dagger fighter/thrower

[Westhart]

Well, as many of you will guess by the title I am looking for a build that specializes in throwing daggers but can still fight with them in melee if needed. This is what I have so far, theoretical ideas will be in italics. I am playing 3.5 and any source book (not sure about dragon) is allowed. Homebrew is allowed on a case by case basis. I have 16 levels to use because I am using any others in sorceror and shadow dancer. Also equipment below +3 bonus is fine... although anything above has to be approved and thus she will not have access to it most likely If possible I would love to avoid taking fighter levels but if necessary I can do so.
EDIT: For an idea of what I am aiming at see the neverwinter trailer video... not sure of link...
Young Adult Silver dragon
Abilities:
Dex: 17
Str: 24
Con: 20
Cha: 22
Wis: 20
Int: 18
Levels
bloodstorm blade 4
master thrower 5
warblade ~3
Invisible blade?
Feats
Maximize spell
one other metamagic
lord of the uttercold
---
Thank you all and if you can reference them I might consider you to be a godsend ;)

[Gruftzwerg]

Did you considered a Soulknife?
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/soulknife.htm

Maybe nothing to add to your build, but another approach to build a Dagger Fighter/Thrower. You don't throw so many of the Mind Blades, but they hit harder and can be buffed with special attacks.

[Grod_The_Giant]

How stupid do you want to get? Because you could use Iajutsu Focus with thrown daggers, and you already have a draconic theme for Dragonfire Inspiration...

[Inevitability]

How the hell are you a young adult silver dragon? They don't have a LA. Even if they did, they still have 19 RHD that fill your ECL up by itself. Even if these got drained, there's basically nothing you get by being a silver.

[Matrota]

Interesting to go with a dagger throwing build for a dragon, but I'm not one to judge. I don't know much in the way of classes or feats, though on a rogue I play I use a Gauntlet of Infinite Blades from MIC page 100, base price of 6,500 gp. You can conjure a dagger with a swift mental command an unlimited number of times per day, all of which disappear 3 rounds after they are created. It also has 5 charges which you can use to buff up the next knife you conjure. The only issue is figuring out how to get that gauntlet to fit on a dragon...

[Inevitability]

Also, you know dragons can't wield weapons, right?


Although a dragon’s front feet are not truly prehensile, a dragon can grasp objects with its front feet, provided they are not too small. This grip is not precise enough for tool use, writing, or wielding a weapon, but a dragon can hold and carry objects. A dragon also is capable of wielding magical devices, such as wands, and can complete somatic components required for the spells it can cast.

[Westhart]

Well, I am aware of the things that you all have pointed out, but I was trying to get a knife fighter build.
Thanks Gruftzwerg for pointing out the soulknife... I may indeed add a few levels of that.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Well, I am aware of the things that you all have pointed out, but I was trying to get a knife fighter build.
Thanks Gruftzwerg for pointing out the soulknife... I may indeed add a few levels of that.
Soulknife 2/Soulbow 1 makes for a pretty decent "pull knives out of nowhere and chuck them at folks" backbone. Soulbow also solves the "dragons can't wield weapons" problem. You can theoretically add in Zen Archery and a level of Shiba Protector to use double-Wisdom for both attack and damage, but that both requires you to be human and gets feat intensive. Alternately, you could take just Zen Archery and slap those three levels onto a Cleric-- or better yet, a Druid. Wild Shape into an octopus and shoot arrows from each arm.

For what it's worth, though, you could try Ranger 2/Soulknife 3/Soulbow 4/Shiba Protector 1/Slayer 1/Ardent 2/Slayer +8. Use both TWF and Rapid Shot to toss out excessive numbers of attacks each round, with Shiba Protector's extra-Wis-to-attack to balance out the penalties. Taking Practiced Manifester at the same time as your first level of Ardent lets you jump straight to 3rd level powers at around the time when mundane combat, and you wind up with 16 BAB and 7th level powers-- a pretty decent place to be, methinks.

[Westhart]

Hmmm, interesting... I like it, thanks a lot.
Of course, shiba protector requires human as race...
And one more thing, does anyone know a few ways to sneak attack those immune to it and to get more sneak attacks...

[Gruftzwerg]

And one more thing, does anyone know a few ways to sneak attack those immune to it and to get more sneak attacks...


have a look here:
Sneak-attack-everything (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?124090-Sneak-attack-everything)

I think they covered everything up there

[Westhart]

well, thanks alot... I think that wraps it up completely.

[gorfnab]

I don't know much in the way of classes or feats, though on a rogue I play I use a Gauntlet of Infinite Blades from MIC page 100, base price of 6,500 gp. You can conjure a dagger with a swift mental command an unlimited number of times per day, all of which disappear 3 rounds after they are created. It also has 5 charges which you can use to buff up the next knife you conjure. The only issue is figuring out how to get that gauntlet to fit on a dragon...
You unfortunately only get 1 Swift action per round, which means only being able to conjure 1 dagger per round. Not the most useful for throwing builds that emphasize multiple throws per round. What you want to look into is modifying the Gloves of Endless Javelins (MIC) to basically being Gloves of Endless Daggers (if your DM is willing to let you make that change). Gloves of Endless Javelins uses a Free action to activate, which means you can use it as many times in a round as your DM allows.

On a side note here is a dagger throwing build I came up with a while ago that can also hold its own in melee.

Strongheart Halfling or Human
1. Rogue - Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Craven, Far Shot, 2x Flaws
2. Swashbuckler - B: Weapon Finesse
3. Rogue - Two Weapon Fighting
4. Rogue - Penetrating Strike ACF (DS)
5. Swashbuckler
6. Swordsage - B: Weapon Focus: Shadow Hand weapons, Shadowblade
7. Swashbuckler
8. Fighter - Hit-and-Run Tactics ACF (DotU - if your DM is lenient), Targeteer ACF (DragMag 310)- Vital Aim
9. Fighter - Targeteer ACF - Rapid Shot, Improved Two Weapon Fighting
10. Swordsage (for Assassins Stance)
11. Master Thrower - B: Quick Draw
12. Master Thrower - Dead Eye (DragMag 304)
13. Master Thrower
14. Master Thrower - B: Snatch Arrows
15. Master Thrower - B: Improved Critical, Greater Two Weapon Fighting
16. Invisible Blade
17. Invisible Blade
18. Invisible Blade - Improved Precise Shot
19. Invisible Blade
20. Invisible Blade


Other items to consider:
Rogue's Vest (MIC)
Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis (ToM)
Bracers of the Hunter (SoX)

Quiver of Anariel - ask the DM if you can change the "Quiver" to "Bandoleer" and arrow(s) to dagger(s).

Quiver of Anariel

Quiver of Anariel:Quivers of Anariel appear to be typical arrow containers capable of holding a score of arrows. However, the quivers automatically replenish themselves with standard or magical arrows, such that they are always full. Some quivers also create arrows made of special materials, such as adamantine, cold iron, or alchemical silver.

Once an arrow it taken from the quiver, it must be used within 1 round or it vanishes.

Moderate conjuration; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, magic weapon, minor creation; Price 28,000 gp (standard arrows), 29,000 gp (masterwork arrows), 32,000 gp (+1 arrows), 44,000 gp (+2 arrows), 64,000 gp (+3 arrows), 92,000 gp (+4 arrows), 128,000 gp (+5 arrows); Add an additional +6,000 gp for adamantine arrows, +4,005 gp for cold iron arrows, or +200 gp for alchemical silver arrows; Weight 1 lb.
Thankfully someone saved this article here (http://web.archive.org/web/20070401150041/http:/ww2.wizards.com/Books/Wizards/?doc=fr_lonedrowstats) since WOTC decided to delete the original posting.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Or ask to reflavor the Gloves of Endless Javelins, from the same book. Shouldn't be too hard a sell, since it's pretty much a straight downgrade.

[gorfnab]

Here is another option for dagger throwing that could be interesting for your dragon.
Flick the Flaming Dagger Flinger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?94343-3-5-Flick-the-Flaming-Dagger-Flinger&p=5140212#post5140212)

[Westhart]

Thank you guys a lot, especially pointing out the dagger gauntlet and swift action... that would not be good to use with maneuvers as a lot of them are swift actions especially boosts... You all provided great help. :smallsmile:

[Gruftzwerg]

Since your dragon is also a Sorcerer, you might consider an Arcane Dagger Thrower with a Telekinesis (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/telekinesis.htm) focused build. Take the Violent Thrust option to throw up to 15 (1/clvl max 15) objects (daggers) at your target.
Attack roll is BAB + Cha (no dmg bonus).

Would also solve the "dragons have no hands" problem.

[Westhart]

it would, although with the dragons polymorph ability the character already spends a lot of time in nondragon form... easier to be diplomatic when you are not a large dragon :smallsmile: