How do you turn yourself into a construct?

[RoboEmperor]

True Mind Switch fails because not only are constructs immune to mind-affecting spells, but also you need to target creatures with at least an intelligence score of 1.

Double casting PaO is Permanent not Instantaneous, and has too much rule lawyering involved.

I made a thread about possibly using Magic Jar, but that too has too much rule lawyering about stuff not mentioned in RAW.

SO! Does anyone know how to turn yourself into a construct in short of Epic Spells?

[Swaoeaeieu]

mind switch with a warforged, levels in warforged juggernaut makes you more constructy.
maybe something with mineral warrior?

i dont recall the specifics. but i remember Tippy mentioning a wizard putting himself in a shadesteel golem.

[unseenmage]

True Mind Switch fails because not only are constructs immune to mind-affecting spells, but also you need to target creatures with at least an intelligence score of 1.

Double casting PaO is Permanent not Instantaneous, and has too much rule lawyering involved.

I made a thread about possibly using Magic Jar, but that too has too much rule lawyering about stuff not mentioned in RAW.

SO! Does anyone know how to turn yourself into a construct in short of Epic Spells?

There are a couple of classes that end with Construct-dom.

The Savage Species book has a section on doing rituals to change type/subtype. One rirual is said to be Wish equivalent, that should do it.

Greater Construct Essence spell maybe?

[noce]

Green star adept turns yourself into one, but is otherwise crappy.
Play as a maug, it is lovely.

[Necroticplague]

True Mind Switch fails because not only are constructs immune to mind-affecting spells, but also you need to target creatures with at least an intelligence score of 1.

SO! Does anyone know how to turn yourself into a construct in short of Epic Spells?

easy: Find a construct that isn't immune to mind effecting, and isn't mindless. Warforged meet both of those criteria (living construct subtype takes away mind-immunity, and mindlessness isn't intrinsic to constructs). Then, True Mind Switch away!. If you want to get more of constuct benefits, then you simply take levels in Warforged Juggernaut.

[RoboEmperor]

easy: Find a construct that isn't immune to mind effecting, and isn't mindless. Warforged meet both of those criteria (living construct subtype takes away mind-immunity, and mindlessness isn't intrinsic to constructs). Then, True Mind Switch away!. If you want to get more of constuct benefits, then you simply take levels in Warforged Juggernaut.

Are there rules on constructing your own warforged? I want to make my own body.

@unseenmage

Isn't savage species one of those books all DMs spit on? I read the wish rules of that book and it will be my last resort.

[Swaoeaeieu]

So i did some searching. If your desired golem isnt sensitive to mind switch. shapechange it into a shape that is, then mindswitch into that and wait for the shape to go back.

maybe toss an awaken construct somewhere in there to be sure?

[Coidzor]

Are there rules on constructing your own warforged? I want to make my own body.

@unseenmage

Isn't savage species one of those books all DMs spit on? I read the wish rules of that book and it will be my last resort.

Pathfinder custom construct rules would give you a price based on CR if you're going 3.P.

IIRC, Warforged require Artifact Creation Forges to make in vanilla 3.5.

Warforged components are a great way to customize a bod, though.

[RoboEmperor]

So i did some searching. If your desired golem isnt sensitive to mind switch. shapechange it into a shape that is, then mindswitch into that and wait for the shape to go back.

maybe toss an awaken construct somewhere in there to be sure?

Shapechange is personal. it's gotta be Polymorph Any Object.

So, let me get this straight. You PaO the Iron Golem into human. It becomes alive. Then you TMS into it. The new human is in your body and you are in his body. PaO ends, what happens?

Do you:
a. Become an Iron Golem with an intelligence, wisdom, and charisma scores and your body drops dead.
b. Become an Iron Golem with 0 intelligence, wisdom, and charisma scores and the new human goes living on in your body.

I need some shred of RAW evidence to argue what happens.

[Swaoeaeieu]

Shapechange is personal. it's gotta be Polymorph Any Object.

So, let me get this straight. You PaO the Iron Golem into human. It becomes alive. Then you TMS into it. The new human is in your body and you are in his body. PaO ends, what happens?

Do you:
a. Become an Iron Golem with an intelligence, wisdom, and charisma scores and your body drops dead.
b. Become an Iron Golem with 0 intelligence, wisdom, and charisma scores and the new human goes living on in your body.

I need some shred of RAW evidence to argue what happens.

scroll of shapechange, make the golem use it.

[RoboEmperor]

scroll of shapechange, make the golem use it.

How would a golem use a scroll?

Anyways I guess the safest and best way is wish...

At least I can argue savage species is a 1st party source book. Thanks unseenmage.

[Gruftzwerg]

Half - Golem:

1. Find an Effigy Master or someone with "Craft Wondrous Item and Craft Magic Arms and Armor" feats.

2. Sacrifice at least a limb (more if you would like to^^)

3. apply a constructed limb instead.

4. Intentionally fail the save rolls (one is enough) > turn into a neutral evil Half-Golem with construct type & traits. You keep your memories. Downside is, you will want to kill all "living flesh creatures"..^^

edit: just included the needed feats.

[RoboEmperor]

Half - Golem:

1. Find an Effigy Master or someone with "Craft Wondrous Item and Craft Magic Arms and Armor" feats.

2. Sacrifice at least a limb (more if you would like to^^)

3. apply a constructed limb instead.

4. Intentionally fail the save rolls (one is enough) > turn into a neutral evil Half-Golem with construct type & traits. You keep your memories. Downside is, you will want to kill all "living flesh creatures"..^^

edit: just included the needed feats.

That is an ECL:- template so PCs can't really use em...

[Coidzor]

The fluff for half-golem sounds more like the elemental spirit in the construct part possesses and eats the person's soul, so it's less you becoming a construct and more a construct becoming you.

[Gruftzwerg]

That is an ECL:- template so PCs can't really use em...

imho I don't see any problem here at all. You "buy/acquire" the template with your character's wealth balance. And the template has it's downsides, not only gains. Further, there is no mentioning of a restriction for player characters.

The ECLs are higher because it measures the power of a single unique fight. But if take the build into regular adventurer life and include the costs/investments, it becomes rather balanced.
edit: because of this imbalance between a single unique fight and regular adventurer life, it needs to have ECL. If it would have a real impact on regular adventurer life, it would bring +LA.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Cast greater humanoid essence on the construct body of your choice, manifest true mind switch on said construct, end greater humanoid essence.


I suggest a shadesteel golem. Shadesteel golems are normally immune to greater humanoid essence, so you will need to make it SR: No. A dweomerkeeper's supernatural spell will do. Alternatively, a supernatural wish, as from a zodar, can emulate greater humanoid essence.

[Jack_Simth]

Cast greater humanoid essence on the construct body of your choice, manifest true mind switch on said construct, end greater humanoid essence.
It does explicitly remove mind-affecting immunity, yes.

However... you're still potentially concerned with other people casting spells on you. What about something like an Ironwyrm, Drakestone, or Dragonbone Golem? They've got old-school magic immunity, but The Book of How to be Eaten by a Dragon is still a 3.5 book. You're lose the breath weapon or fear aura (they're Su) but keep everything else... and the Drakestone and Ironwyrm are pretty easy to repair (Drakestone one spell and you're back at full, and there's a reserve feat for the Ironwyrm). If you make it yourself, you can just order it to suppress it's own immunity to magic. Use Alter Self to turn into a Warforged when you want to cast, and keep a Contingency with Dispel Magic to turn off the Alter Self if anyone sends hostile magic your way.
I suggest a shadesteel golem. Shadesteel golems are normally immune to greater humanoid essence, so you will need to make it SR: No. A dweomerkeeper's supernatural spell will do. Alternatively, a supernatural wish, as from a zodar, can emulate greater humanoid essence.
If the beast is under your control, you don't actually need to worry much about the magic immunity. The Saving Throw section of the Magic Overview (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#savingThrow) includes:
Voluntarily Giving up a Saving Throw

A creature can voluntarily forego a saving throw and willingly accept a spell’s result. Even a character with a special resistance to magic can suppress this quality. (Emphasis added).
The PHB example uses an elf accepting a sleep spell. The golem very much has a special resistance to magic. You're using a spell that could affect it if it were not for the special resistance to magic. If you control it via orders, you can have it accept Greater Humanoid Essence, and then the True Mind Switch, no problems.

[torrasque666]

imho I don't see any problem here at all. You "buy/acquire" the template with your character's wealth balance. And the template has it's downsides, not only gains. Further, there is no mentioning of a restriction for player characters.

The ECLs are higher because it measures the power of a single unique fight. But if take the build into regular adventurer life and include the costs/investments, it becomes rather balanced.
edit: because of this imbalance between a single unique fight and regular adventurer life, it needs to have ECL. If it would have a real impact on regular adventurer life, it would bring +LA.

I think you misunderstood them. Its an ECL:∅ template, which means that its not that the ECL is 0 or unchanged, the ECL doesn't exist, much like an Undead's Constitution score (Con: ∅) or Mindless creatures Intelligence (Int: ∅). Part of it is because a PC must have an Int of 3 at least and therefore cant be mindless though. But the fact that it is an ECL:∅ template means that when the template is applied, the creature is no longer a Player Character. (do note that the template itself does not mention an ECL change, nor does the errata, only the sample characters which have all failed their will save and became mindless constructs)

[ExLibrisMortis]

If the beast is under your control, you don't actually need to worry much about the magic immunity.
Quite, good call. And since the OP is intending to craft their own body, this will make life a lot easier for them.

[RoboEmperor]

imho I don't see any problem here at all. You "buy/acquire" the template with your character's wealth balance. And the template has it's downsides, not only gains. Further, there is no mentioning of a restriction for player characters.

The ECLs are higher because it measures the power of a single unique fight. But if take the build into regular adventurer life and include the costs/investments, it becomes rather balanced.
edit: because of this imbalance between a single unique fight and regular adventurer life, it needs to have ECL. If it would have a real impact on regular adventurer life, it would bring +LA.

Yeah, but it's a DM thing, and my DM is a RAW nut. He allows broken things too as long as it's RAW legal. He just hates house ruling saying it's what crybaby scrubs do and you should try to accomplish what you want within the confines of the rules of the game.


Cast greater humanoid essence on the construct body of your choice, manifest true mind switch on said construct, end greater humanoid essence.


I suggest a shadesteel golem. Shadesteel golems are normally immune to greater humanoid essence, so you will need to make it SR: No. A dweomerkeeper's supernatural spell will do. Alternatively, a supernatural wish, as from a zodar, can emulate greater humanoid essence.

Awesome, with this I don't have to deal with PaO's lack of rule clarificaiton, and overcome mind-affecting spell's requirement of 1 intelligence, because the spell specifically states mind-affecting spells work.

OK! SO! I guess we are back to... getting True Mind Switch on a wizard. Off to bump my other thread!

[nijineko]

the Steal Steel power allows one to possess a blade. you could use it on a blade construct... though that has certain disadvantages.

also, animating a construct pulls an elemental soul for the animating (if i recall my fluff and D&D history correctly), you could create a variant power/spell which would target a willing soul as the animating force instead, using the create new power / spell rules.

one could also create a swap soul power or spell that specifically isn't mind-affecting using those rules.

[Jack_Simth]

OK! SO! I guess we are back to... getting True Mind Switch on a wizard. Off to bump my other thread!
Well, the save DC doesn't matter because the beastie is accepting it due to your orders, and you only need to do it once, so you can use a power stone.

Ergo, the method is:
1) Cross-class ranks in Use Psionic Device.
2) Figure out the DC (25 + Power level to address, 20 + Manifester Level to use). For a 20 HD construct, you need a ML 20 Powerstone, for DC 34 and 40.
3) Standard skill boosting tricks.

So at, say, level 20 with a base Charisma of 10, you:


Max Cross class ranks in Use Psionic Device (11 ranks)
5 Cross-class ranks in Psicraft (for the +2 to UPD)
Max Cross class ranks in Use Magic Device (for activating off-class wands) (11 ranks)
5 ranks in Spellcraft (although as a Wizard, you'll have a lot more!) (+2 UMD)
Cloak of Charisma +6 (+3 to both)
Circlet of Persuasion (+3 Competence to both)
Wand of Divine Insight at caster level 10.
Wand of Improvisation at caster level 20.

Using a wand is a DC 20 UMD check. 11 cross-class ranks + 2 Synergy + 3 Cloak (Charisma) + 3 Circlet (Competence) = +19. You make it on a 1. So the wands are no problem.
Improvisation gets you a pool of luck points, which you can spend for a +10 luck bonus to a skill.
Divine Insight gives you a one-shot +15 Insight bonus to a skill.
To address the stone, you burn one charge from the Divine Insight wand. The UPD check is basically the same modifier, here. 11 cross-class ranks + 2 Synergy + 3 Cloak (Charisma) +3 Circlet (Competence) + 15 Divine Insight (Insight) = +34. You make it on a 1.
To use the stone, you burn one charge form the Divine Insight wand and one from the wand of Improvisation. 11 cross-class ranks + 2 Synergy +3 Cloak (Charisma) + 3 Circlet (Competence) + 15 Divine Insight (Insight) + 10 Improvisation (Luck) = +44. You make it on a 1 with room to spare.

Edit: If your construct has more than 20 HD, you'll have to either get a higher manifester level (which gets into epic cost multipliers and harder skill checks), or temporarily trim the beast. Given that you're already applying Greater Humanoid Essence, all you need to do is zap a couple of Enervation spells on it after GHE.

[RoboEmperor]

Well, the save DC doesn't matter because the beastie is accepting it due to your orders, and you only need to do it once, so you can use a power stone.

Ergo, the method is:
1) Cross-class ranks in Use Psionic Device.
2) Figure out the DC (25 + Power level to address, 20 + Manifester Level to use). For a 20 HD construct, you need a ML 20 Powerstone, for DC 34 and 40.
3) Standard skill boosting tricks.

So at, say, level 20 with a base Charisma of 10, you:


Max Cross class ranks in Use Psionic Device (11 ranks)
5 Cross-class ranks in Psicraft (for the +2 to UPD)
Max Cross class ranks in Use Magic Device (for activating off-class wands) (11 ranks)
5 ranks in Spellcraft (although as a Wizard, you'll have a lot more!) (+2 UMD)
Cloak of Charisma +6 (+3 to both)
Circlet of Persuasion (+3 Competence to both)
Wand of Divine Insight at caster level 10.
Wand of Improvisation at caster level 20.

Using a wand is a DC 20 UMD check. 11 cross-class ranks + 2 Synergy + 3 Cloak (Charisma) + 3 Circlet (Competence) = +19. You make it on a 1. So the wands are no problem.
Improvisation gets you a pool of luck points, which you can spend for a +10 luck bonus to a skill.
Divine Insight gives you a one-shot +15 Insight bonus to a skill.
To address the stone, you burn one charge from the Divine Insight wand. The UPD check is basically the same modifier, here. 11 cross-class ranks + 2 Synergy + 3 Cloak (Charisma) +3 Circlet (Competence) + 15 Divine Insight (Insight) = +34. You make it on a 1.
To use the stone, you burn one charge form the Divine Insight wand and one from the wand of Improvisation. 11 cross-class ranks + 2 Synergy +3 Cloak (Charisma) + 3 Circlet (Competence) + 15 Divine Insight (Insight) + 10 Improvisation (Luck) = +44. You make it on a 1 with room to spare.

Edit: If your construct has more than 20 HD, you'll have to either get a higher manifester level (which gets into epic cost multipliers and harder skill checks), or temporarily trim the beast. Given that you're already applying Greater Humanoid Essence, all you need to do is zap a couple of Enervation spells on it after GHE.

Using a Power Stone is not the issue, it is getting one. Buying one is not reliable, my DM doesn't like selling powerful spells. he wants you to make em yourself. Check my other thread for more details.

Thanks for your calculation, it pointed out the flaw of my understanding of the spell and skill. I probably will use it on a 15hd or 18hd golem, since you get a whopping 0 bonus for higher hd targets. At least that's my understanding, since you retain your own hitpoints, saves, BAB, etc. You gain no benefit other than size increase I guess.

[Jack_Simth]

Using a Power Stone is not the issue, it is getting one. Buying one is not reliable, my DM doesn't like selling powerful spells. he wants you to make em yourself. Check my other thread for more details.

Thanks for your calculation, it pointed out the flaw of my understanding of the spell and skill. I probably will use it on a 15hd or 18hd golem, since you get a whopping 0 bonus for higher hd targets. At least that's my understanding, since you retain your own hitpoints, saves, BAB, etc. You gain no benefit other than size increase I guess.
The good special abilities are often (not always) tied to the higher CR constructs... and the higher CR constructs are usually (not always) higher HD. Start by figuring out exactly what matters to you for your body.

[Gruftzwerg]

I think you misunderstood them. Its an ECL:∅ template, which means that its not that the ECL is 0 or unchanged, the ECL doesn't exist, much like an Undead's Constitution score (Con: ∅) or Mindless creatures Intelligence (Int: ∅). Part of it is because a PC must have an Int of 3 at least and therefore cant be mindless though. But the fact that it is an ECL:∅ template means that when the template is applied, the creature is no longer a Player Character. (do note that the template itself does not mention an ECL change, nor does the errata, only the sample characters which have all failed their will save and became mindless constructs)


sry, it was late yesterday and I twisted ECL & CR (Challenge Rating).
It should read:
- Half-Golems have a higher CR because it's applied to a "base creature". And since you just can't cut the costs of acquiring of the creatures treasures (it would cause an imbalance on the encounter > treasure side), it needs to get a higher CR
- If a PC decides to turn into a Half-Golem, he can freely do it. He pays for it from his character wealth balance. It's like buying a magic item or paying for a ritual.
- If you apply the half-golem template to a regular monster which normally can't buy stuff for itself, the target needs to get additional CR.

Let's assume you want a half-golem horse:
- turning the horse into a half-golem is not the problem
- but the horse didn't paid for it from it's own character wealth balance. That's why the horse gets + CR

In-fact, if you would make an NPC, who has character wealth balance, he could invest it for the template without any CR change, cause the gained power would be justified with the investment of character wealth.

edit: cleaned up gramma & typos

[ShurikVch]

How about the Fiend of Possession PrC?
It can animate possessed objects, thus turning them into Constructs...

[Kalaska'Agathas]

Are there rules on constructing your own warforged? I want to make my own body.

Renegade Mastermaker (Magic of Eberron, page 81) turns a non-Warforged into a pseudo Warforged by modifying their bodies with "mechanical augmentations" over ten levels. The capstone is becoming a living construct and being treated as a Warforged for the purpose of meeting requirements and prerequisites, along with a bonus Warforged feat (including those which can otherwise only be taken at level one). Five levels of Artificer is the easiest entry, and it grants 8/10 casting progression, along with some other Warforged-themed class features. That leaves five levels for Warforged Juggernaut, to complete the transformation into a true Construct, if you so desire.

It's not quite the same as building a custom construct body to then inhabit, but it may be worth a look.