teleport to explode the world?

[retaliation08]

What if a Wizard casts teleport to go straight up into the air? While falling he would ready an action to cast teleport again once he approaches the planet's surface. He would continue casting teleport in this way, returning to the same elevation, until he is out of spell slots, hoping that he has conserved enough momentum through his falling to plummet to the planet's core when he eventually hits the surface. How much damage would this theoretically do, assuming that the law of conservation of momentum holds true while teleporting?

[Thurbane]

I think terminal velocity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_fall) would stop this working. For a human, it's approx. 122mph.

[Particle_Man]

For D&D humans, I think it is 20d6. :smallsmile:

[retaliation08]

I think terminal velocity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_fall) would stop this working. For a human, it's approx. 122mph.

Warforged? :smallbiggrin:

[Âmesang]

Similarly couldn't such a wizard with a necklace of adaptation (greater) teleport outside of the atmosphere (but within the effect of gravity), set up a pair of ring gates (held into place with immovable rods, perhaps?) and then drop an object into one gate to have it fall out of the other gate to fall back into the first, over and over, building up momentum, mass, &c?

I suppose less "smashing into the core" and "potentially creating a black hole."

[Uncle Pine]

Last time I checked teleport spells didn't preserve momentum: they just move you somewhere else and place you there. Ring gates (or any other portal of gate) would work just fine.

However, if truly inhuman speed is what you're looking for you should check out the Commoner railgun.

[EisenKreutzer]

What if a Wizard casts teleport to go straight up into the air? While falling he would ready an action to cast teleport again once he approaches the planet's surface. He would continue casting teleport in this way, returning to the same elevation, until he is out of spell slots, hoping that he has conserved enough momentum through his falling to plummet to the planet's core when he eventually hits the surface. How much damage would this theoretically do, assuming that the law of conservation of momentum holds true while teleporting?

Unfortunately, thats not how momentum works. If the teleport spell conserves momentum, then he would not just fall faster and faster infinitely. He would reach terminal velocity, and stay at that speed.

[Hurnn]

I think terminal velocity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_fall) would stop this working. For a human, it's approx. 122mph.

The record is over 833 mph, granted he jumped from 24 miles up. Also this is apparently a sport, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_skydiving and they regularly hit speeds between 2-300 MPH.

[EisenKreutzer]

The record is over 833 mph, granted he jumped from 24 miles up. Also this is apparently a sport, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_skydiving and they regularly hit speeds between 2-300 MPH.

They do that by reducing drag through aerodynamic gear and body positioning.

[Thurbane]

The record without any special equipment is around 321mph, AFAIK.

With access to magic, you may well be able to beat that. But still, not he kind of impact that will be anywhere near enought o shatter a planet.

Maybe if you combine it with Giant Size and Iron Body?

[EisenKreutzer]

The record without any special equipment is around 321mph, AFAIK.

With access to magic, you may well be able to beat that. But still, not he kind of impact that will be anywhere near enought o shatter a planet.

Maybe if you combine it with Giant Size and Iron Body?

Speed is not enough, unfortunately, you need mass. And a lot of it to have any sort of real impact.

A better plan would be to get a tungsten rod the size of a telephone pole and teleport it into a very rapidly decaying orbit.

[Manyasone]

Speed is not enough, unfortunately, you need mass. And a lot of it to have any sort of real impact.

A better plan would be to get a tungsten rod the size of a telephone pole and teleport it into a very rapidly decaying orbit.

Kinetic bombardment, right? Nice technology, but not really shattering planets

[Jack_Simth]

Speed is not enough, unfortunately, you need mass. And a lot of it to have any sort of real impact.

A better plan would be to get a tungsten rod the size of a telephone pole and teleport it into a very rapidly decaying orbit.

OK, so...

Step 1: Obtain:
A tungsten rod with a small enough diameter to go through a ring gate.
A pair of Ring Gates.
Sovereign Glue.

Step 2: Build:
Put the rod partway through the ring gate.
Sovereign Glue the two ends together, such that the rod is straight.

Step 3: Ready the area:
Find a way to completely empty all air from a room. Perhaps seal it up, fill it with water, freeze the water, then disintegrate the ice. Shapechange and a silent/stilled Disintegrate may be necessary.

Step 4: Ready the device
Push the contraption up, such that the rod is verticle, and the ring gates are perpendicular to the ground.

Step 5: Wait for momentum to build:
Gravity should affect the rod, pulling it through the Ring Gate. It's all one piece, so never fully goes through, and thus never invokes the weight limit of the ring gates. With no air, friction is minimal. The thing should build up a LOT of speed.

Step 6: Dispel the Ring Gates, closing the portal:
The rod will probably snap at this point, and keep going, at some crazy-high speeds. If you want to fire it AT someone, you'll want a second pair of ring gates: One just below the ready pair, one pointed at whatever it is you want hit at relativistic velocity. Warning: May cause the air to detonate....

[John Longarrow]

Why not just destroy the planet with a chicken infested commoner? Much cheaper.

[Jack_Simth]

Why not just destroy the planet with a chicken infested commoner? Much cheaper.
Then you're just burying the planet in chickens. A few spheres of annihilation in existence prevent that, and there's the possibility that you'll smother YOURSELF in chickens long before you do the planet (you're unlikely to be able to throw them half way around the world as part of your free actions).

[John Longarrow]

Not if you can get the commoner flying..

Commoner (maybe with necklass of adaptation) is in geostationary orbit.
Commoner begins pulling guano out of component pouch and dropping.
50% of dropped guano is really chickens.

This will work until you've got so many chickens (covering the burnt up remnants of chickens, covering the fallen ash from previously dropped chickens) that they have expanded the planet out to where your commoner is in orbit.

Several thousand miles worth of chicken will sweep across the planet pretty quickly crushing all in its path. More chicken piles up on the commoner side till its about twenty thousand miles deep. If you are able to teleport said commoner out further to a new orbit you'll grow the planet by sheer numbers of chickens. Eventually you can get so many chickens that the planet crushes in upon itself to turn into a black hole. In this case a black hole that tastes great when fried with seven secret seasonings.

[Quertus]

With no air, friction is minimal.

And... just what causes friction in a magical true vacuum?

[Jack_Simth]

Not if you can get the commoner flying..

Commoner (maybe with necklass of adaptation) is in geostationary orbit.
Commoner begins pulling guano out of component pouch and dropping.
50% of dropped guano is really chickens.

This will work until you've got so many chickens (covering the burnt up remnants of chickens, covering the fallen ash from previously dropped chickens) that they have expanded the planet out to where your commoner is in orbit.

Several thousand miles worth of chicken will sweep across the planet pretty quickly crushing all in its path. More chicken piles up on the commoner side till its about twenty thousand miles deep. If you are able to teleport said commoner out further to a new orbit you'll grow the planet by sheer numbers of chickens. Eventually you can get so many chickens that the planet crushes in upon itself to turn into a black hole. In this case a black hole that tastes great when fried with seven secret seasonings.

You realize that at that level of absurdity, you could skip the commoner and just do it with regular old bat guano, live spiders, short lengths of copper wire, and colored sand instead, right?


And... just what causes friction in a magical true vacuum?
The plane's magnetic field, if a compass works. Yes, that will cause a fricative force. And, of course, if you don't line things up perfectly, the side of the gate (which may cause premature detonation).

[John Longarrow]

You realize that at that level of absurdity, you could skip the commoner and just do it with regular old bat guano, live spiders, short lengths of copper wire, and colored sand instead, right?

But they don't produce a black hole that's also a tasty treat! Nothing like Boccob's southern fried black hole to fill your belly! :D

[Jack_Simth]

But they don't produce a black hole that's also a tasty treat! Nothing like Boccob's southern fried black hole to fill your belly! :D
You've never wanted to bury your enemies in bat guano, live spiders, and short lengths of pointy wire, then sprinkle a little colored sand on the remains to make the steaming pile look pretty?

[nintendoh]

So as noone had pointed this out yet. The immovable rod will not work dur to the planets orbit. How was this rectified fluffwise?

[NichG]

A back of the envelope calculation suggests that the hypothesized moon-forming giant impact event was about 4*10^31 joules.

That corresponds to an 80kg human travelling at, well, almost the speed of light. You end up with (v/c) = sqrt(1 - 3.2e-26) ~= 1 - 2e-26. Classically this would be 10^15 m/s, or 3 million times the speed of light. To get to that speed via falling under Earth's surface gravity would take 3.2 million years. A person falling at this speed would exert a 30kN gravitational force at 1 meter range due to the mass equivalent of their kinetic energy alone, enough to lift a 3000kg object against Earth's gravity.

[Deophaun]

And, of course, if you don't line things up perfectly, the side of the gate (which may cause premature detonation).
Which is almost a certainty, as you have to line it up precisely with the pull of gravity as well and keep it aligned (because little things like the Sun and Moon like to move that around on you)

Edit: Although, the ring-gate does make a good gravity tractor. You could use that to (eventually) throw the planet into the sun.

[EisenKreutzer]

Kinetic bombardment, right? Nice technology, but not really shattering planets

Well, no, it's not a planetbuster. But it will cause an explosion equivalent to a pretty large atomic bomb.

[ShurikVch]

What if a Wizard casts teleport to go straight up into the air?Teleport will fizzle.
Conjuration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#conjuration):
A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.

[Uncle Pine]

Nybor's Joyful Voyage (Web article or here (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxTt5u6rmj76UlBZOFBsZUxhbEU/view)) specifically mentions teleporting yourself 1d100 miles upward, so it should be able to circumvent the usual limits imposed on conjuration spells.

[Inevitability]

Teleport will fizzle.
Conjuration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#conjuration):

I see your citation and raise you the same citation.


A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.

We're not transporting anything to our location and in fact the person who's is being teleported stays perfectly stationary compared to our location. The rule clearly doesn't apply.

[SquirtleSquad]

What if a Wizard casts teleport to go straight up into the air? While falling he would ready an action to cast teleport again once he approaches the planet's surface. He would continue casting teleport in this way, returning to the same elevation, until he is out of spell slots, hoping that he has conserved enough momentum through his falling to plummet to the planet's core when he eventually hits the surface. How much damage would this theoretically do, assuming that the law of conservation of momentum holds true while teleporting?

DM rules 101: the core of the earth is mad of imovible rods

[ShurikVch]

Nybor's Joyful VoyageNice find, but random effect make it not so useful to this particular thread


We're not transporting anything to our location and in fact the person who's is being teleported stays perfectly stationary compared to our location. The rule clearly doesn't apply.Let me quote OP one more time:
What if a Wizard casts teleport to go straight up into the air?If Wizard teleported somewhere, then that "somewhere" is "our location"

[Bronk]

For D&D humans, I think it is 20d6. :smallsmile:

Right? Plus, it would only apply the damage to a 10 foot cube area... unless you managed to turn the planet into one singular object, then have it count as a creature with a single set of HP by turning it into an animated object.

[Karl Aegis]

How are you getting around the fact that you have to go through the timeless, weightless, infinite Astral Plane to get any sort of teleporting done? Preferably some way that also means you don't splatter against a wall if you use Abrupt Jaunt to teleport you five feet directly towards the wall.

[emeraldstreak]

For a human-sized object to do serious damage to Earth it has to move at a large fraction of the speed of light.

Also, realize that what we perceive as Earth is just a tiny thin crust of cooled rock. The true Earth you must break to destroy the planet is a giant ball of ultracompressed iron (mostly) whose gravity will immediately try to reform it should you somehow manage to chip it.

[EisenKreutzer]

For a human-sized object to do serious damage to Earth it has to move at a large fraction of the speed of light.

Also, realize that what we perceive as Earth is just a tiny thin crust of cooled rock. The true Earth you must break to destroy the planet is a giant ball of ultracompressed iron (mostly) whose gravity will immediately try to reform it should you somehow manage to chip it.

Except this is a fantasy world we are talking about, and the world might be a flat disk resting in the backs of four enormous elephants standing on a space turtle.

[retaliation08]

Haha you guys crack me up. Enlarge person does multiply your weight by 8, making a mass of over 1000kg within reach for our wizard, if he is medium, and much greater masses possible if he is a large creature. Wearing full plate would additionally add weight, along with whatever heavy stuff he can load into his pack.

Alas, our poor wizard would likely die in vain, if it works at all. I can imagine him making all these preparations and calculating equations. Going outside, donning his armour, casting enlarge person, and saying his fairwell to the cruel world. He prepares the teleportation spell as tears stream down his face, which has hardened with a look of deadly determination. And.... the spell fizzles.

[Thurbane]

If we're still going with the wizard using his own body as the projectile, I still think a combo of Giant Size and Iron Body would produce more impressive results.

Giant Size can make you 72 ft tall, and Iron Body increases your weight by a factor of 10.

You'll probably need Wyrm Wizard to get both spells on your list.

[EisenKreutzer]

If we're still going with the wizard using his own body as the projectile, I still think a combo of Giant Size and Iron Body would produce more impressive results.

Giant Size can make you 72 ft tall, and Iron Body increases your weight by a factor of 10.

You'll probably need Wyrm Wizard to get both spells on your list.

If we are blending D&D and real world physics, there is another problem to solve: Velocity. To achieve any kind of speed, we need to reduce drag. Giant Sized Iron Bodied bullet-wizard has a huge surface area, which produces enormous amounts of drag. The more drag we eliminate, the faster bullet-wizard is going to travel. Eliminating drag completely, and we can get into relativistic speeds.. Eventually..

[John Longarrow]

Down side of real world drag is the massive amount of friction. This is not only heat, its also pieces getting torn off at high enough speed. Toss in how much energy gets transferred to an atmosphere when you hit it and you could mess up an simply explode in the atmosphere prior to impact.

[Jack_Simth]

Down side of real world drag is the massive amount of friction. This is not only heat, its also pieces getting torn off at high enough speed. Toss in how much energy gets transferred to an atmosphere when you hit it and you could mess up an simply explode in the atmosphere prior to impact.

If you explode enough, that's not quite a failure.

[JoshuaZ]

There are a bunch of ways to make yourself incorporeal which might deal with the air resistance issue.

[Âmesang]

Vague, alternative answer, but… but what are the elves not telling us? :smallconfused:

http://www.schadenfreudestudios.com/backup/pictures/indent.gifThe elven Greyspace fleet was engaged with other enemies elsewhere, and could not divert enough ships and personnel to invade Borka and suppress its military potential. It was then that the elves realized something that has colored their military thinking since that time: planetary invasion is expensive, in terms of manpower, ships, and material; planetary destruction is not.
http://www.schadenfreudestudios.com/backup/pictures/indent.gifThe elven priests prayed to their gods while the mages developed spells of cataclysmic power. When the time was right, and with the help of their deities, the elves struck the world of Borka with a titanic blast of extradimensional magic. This blast of energy split the crust of Borka like an eggshell, shattering the planet into the thousands of rocky fragments it is today.
http://www.schadenfreudestudios.com/backup/pictures/indent.gifMost of the population of Borka was killed in that apocalyptic strike. Some few lucky individuals survived, to eke out a primitive existence on what was left of their world…

— SPELLJAMMER®: Greyspace, p.55

[Jack_Simth]

There are a bunch of ways to make yourself incorporeal which might deal with the air resistance issue.

Downside for this purpose is that Incorporeality also pretty effectively negates gravity.

[MisterKaws]

Wouldn't it be easier to do a Wizard/Drunken Master/Hulking Hurler and throw the planet at some random pebble? IIRC, if the campaign's planet has the same weight as Earth, you only need about 500 Strength, which is easily achieved by any self-respecting muscle mage, and you have a 5% chance to break the planet on each throw, because Drunken Master.

[Inevitability]

If you explode enough, that's not quite a failure.

Can I sig this?

[Bronk]

Wouldn't it be easier to do a Wizard/Drunken Master/Hulking Hurler and throw the planet at some random pebble? IIRC, if the campaign's planet has the same weight as Earth, you only need about 500 Strength, which is easily achieved by any self-respecting muscle mage, and you have a 5% chance to break the planet on each throw, because Drunken Master.

If I ever come across a really big wizard, standing on his head while levitating a pebble, I'm going to be really, really worried!

(Wait, is that what Yoda was really trying to teach Luke?! That's one way to get rid of a Death Star...)

[Jack_Simth]

Can I sig this?

Go for it!