What does this party need?

[KnotaGuru]

So, my D&D group finished HotDQ a few months ago and are preparing to start Rise of Tiamat soon. Unfortunately, a few of our players had to leave for various reasons so we're short-handed. This is what we have left:

Half-elf lore bard: expertise in perception & persuasion, all-around skill monkey, and controller (counterspell & conjure animals with level 6 magcal secrets)
Human revised ranger: archery style, sharpshooter feat
*Human battlemaster fighter: sword & board* This player is thinking of playing a Half-orc oath of the crown paladin with a great sword

Our DM is allowing us to control another character so we can custom make him to fill in the gaps. We're all level 8 and have aquired most of the magic items from HotDQ (black dragon mask, hazirawn, staff of fire, wand of winter, arrow-catching shield, bracers of defense, a couple +1 longbows, +1 longsword, dagger of venom).

I was thinking of creating a character to take advantage of the staff of fire, so he'd have to be full or part druid, sorcerer, warlock, or wizard. I know we don't have a dedicated healer, but the bard has healing word while the paladin & ranger have cure light wounds. Pally also has lay oh hands obviously. RoT goes to level ~14 and the bard planned on getting the inspiring leader feat for some temp HP boosts after each rest at level 12.

My initial thought was a fighter 1/ booklock 7 with undying light patron (for the dmg boost to fire & radiant spells). This would give him some toughness (20 AC and heavy armor master feat), versatility (book of shadows with ritual casting), damage dealing (shillelagh & GFB, along with eldritch blast for ranged), and access to the staff of fire & arrow-catching shield.

What do you guys think?

[Deleted]

How experienced is the DM?

[KnotaGuru]

How experienced is the DM?

He's still somewhat new to 5e, but he DM'd a lot back in 1st/2nd ed. He'll be on his 3rd module with RoT

[Edgerunner]

Arcane Trickster Rogue.

Play him as a Hired NPC who refuses to fight, unless paid handsomely per encounter, because the only things "In his Contract" is that he is there to disarm Traps and find secret doors and the like. Make him good at what he does but a cut-throat bastard who only cares about his $$$.

[Deleted]

He's still somewhat new to 5e, but he DM'd a lot back in 1st/2nd ed. He'll be on his 3rd module with RoT

If a DM has enough experience you can get away with running adventures for any size or combo of groups.

I would suggest trying it without the extra PC, low party games are awesome and I actually prefer games with no more than 2 players (though 3 is fine).

I think 3 players should be enough as long as the DM keeps in mind who and what your characters are and can do.

[Mikey P]

This is one of those situations where you an have some fun.

Add a Barbarian/Moon Druid and have another character take Mounted Combatant and ride into combat mounted on a raging... whatever...

[KnotaGuru]

Arcane Trickster Rogue.

Play him as a Hired NPC who refuses to fight, unless paid handsomely per encounter, because the only things "In his Contract" is that he is there to disarm Traps and find secret doors and the like. Make him good at what he does but a cut-throat bastard who only cares about his $$$.

Bard has proficiency in thieves tools and a 16 DEX. Granted, he's not as good as a rogue with expertise in thieves tools, but it's been working thus far. We also had a cleric who'd cast guidance before any skill checks.

Here's what we lost:
Goliath ancients paladin
Half elf necro wizard
Dragonborn war cleric

[Deleted]

Bard has proficiency in thieves tools and a 16 DEX. Granted, he's not as good as a rogue with expertise in thieves tools, but it's been working thus far. We also had a cleric who'd cast guidance before any skill checks.

Here's what we lost:
Goliath ancients paladin
Half elf necro wizard
Dragonborn war cleric

Just buy a lot of goblin slaves and swarm enemies with them?











They also make good trap detectors.

[Plaguescarred]

This party could use a wizard

[Farecry]

Wild magic sorcerer, every party needs one of those. And use those abilities every chance you get.

[KnotaGuru]

This party could use a wizard

Thought about a wizard, they have great utility, but seem squishy. One reason i was thinking booklock was for the ritual spells to make up for the lack of cleric & wizard, then still have some toughness with the fighter dip.
What school of wizardry would you recommend? Multiclass?

[KnotaGuru]

Wild magic sorcerer, every party needs one of those. And use those abilities every chance you get.

The guy playing the fighter who's switching to paladin thought making a sorcadin. Wild sorc seems fun though.

[Deleted]

Wild magic sorcerer, every party needs one of those. And use those abilities every chance you get.

I absolutely hate how the Chaos Sorcerer is based around DM whim

[KnotaGuru]

I absolutely hate how the Chaos Sorcerer is based around DM whim

Agreed. I read somewhere to set up a system with the DM that seems to help. Like rolling a d20 everytime you cast a spell 1st level or higher. Roll a 1 and you're rolling on the random surge chart. Not sure how this looks in game play though, would it slow down play or come up too often or still not often enough?

[JumboWheat01]

Might I suggest a Light Cleric? It has some AoE Blasting, good for mobs, some focused blasting, for bosses, and all the other cleric goodies, including healing and buffing spells.

[Deleted]

Agreed. I read somewhere to set up a system with the DM that seems to help. Like rolling a d20 everytime you cast a spell 1st level or higher. Roll a 1 and you're rolling on the random surge chart. Not sure how this looks in game play though, would it slow down play or come up too often or still not often enough?

As my friend would say, way too troublesome.

I made this, a simple way to make magic chaotic, on the third comment there is a Wild Surge variant that you might like.

Http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?514212-Chaos-Mage-(Simple)

[solidork]

How many short rests do you guys take? The bard gets inspiration back, but other than that you don't benefit much from short rests. Other than that, your proposed Fighter/Lock seems like a well optimized choice.

[Specter]

You have skill guys, you have healers and you have damage. The rest is vague, at least from what you said. I say bring on a problem solver (to let the Bard breathe) who can tank decently. There are a few options:

- Fighter 1/Abjurer X: 19AC off the bat, all the wizard goodness along with the ability to take hits well and be efficient.
- Paladin/Sorcerer: will work at higher levels. Versatility and damage coupled.
- Valor Bard: two bards in one crew never hurt anybody. Take Tough or Resilient (CON) for added safety.

The bare minimum is someone who has no problem in taking hits.

[Plaguescarred]

Thought about a wizard, they have great utility, but seem squishy. One reason i was thinking booklock was for the ritual spells to make up for the lack of cleric & wizard, then still have some toughness with the fighter dip.
What school of wizardry would you recommend? Multiclass?Up to you really. If you're concerned about it being squishy, going with an abjurer would help a little bit

[Deleted]

Up to you really. If you're concerned about it being squishy, going with an abjurer would help a little bit

Suggestion: Hill Dwarf Abjuration Wizard

[Farecry]

As my friend would say, way too troublesome.

I made this, a simple way to make magic chaotic, on the third comment there is a Wild Surge variant that you might like.

Http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?514212-Chaos-Mage-(Simple)

My DM had me roll everytime I took advantage from tides of chaos, and the d20 everytime I cast a spell of 1st lvl or higher.

[erok0809]

My DM had me roll everytime I took advantage from tides of chaos, and the d20 everytime I cast a spell of 1st lvl or higher.

Same, when I played a Wild Magic sorc. I was rolling in the table every other spell; cast a cantrip or something with Tides to get advantage (alternately, use Tides to give advantage on initiative, since that qualifies as a Dex check), and then cast a regular spell the next round to roll on the table. Bonus points if I quickened that spell and cast a cantrip to be able to roll on the table again next round. So much fun!

[solidork]

Suggestion: Hill Dwarf Abjuration Wizard

We have one of these in our current campaign. He's gained some notoriety, so the bad guys always yes "Dwarven MAGEEEE!" furiously when he counterspells them.

[KnotaGuru]

Think I'll go with my original idea of fighter 1/undying light booklock 7. Seems to have the best mix of:
-damage (shillelagh w/GFB & eldritch blast)
-durability (warcaster, heavy armor master, proficiency in con saves, 20 AC, armor of agathys, searing vengeance)
-versatility (melee or ranged, ritual spells).

I think I have the spells picked out:

Cantrips:
-light (from undying light patron)
-sacred flame (from undying light patron)
-guidance (from pact of the tomb)
-shillelagh (from pact of the tome)
-spare the dying (from pact of the tome)
-green-flame blade (warlock)
-eldritch blast (warlock)
-blade ward (warlock)

Spells (can have 8 being a 7th-level warlock)
1st-level:
-burning hands
-hex
-armor of agathys
-hellish rebuke

2nd-level:
-flaming sphere
-invisibility

3rd -level:
-hunger of hadar

4th-level:
-fire shield

Also have rituals (via book of ancient secrets invocation)
-alarm
-find familiar
-detect magic
-identify
-tenser's floating disk
-leomund's tiny hut

Also have staff of fire (10 charges, regain 1d6+4/day)
-burning hands (1 charge)
-fireball (3 charges)
-wall of fire (4 charges)

Invocations:
-agonizing blast (CHA mod to eldritch blast
-devil's sight (see in darkness 120')
-mask of many faces (disguise self at-will)
-book of ancient secrets (inscribe ritual spells)


What do you guys think? Anything I should change out? Is spare the dying worth it or should I select thamaturgy or something like it?

I was thinking I could cast invisibility on the rest of the party, use disguise self to impersonate a member of the cult of the dragon, and gain access to anywhere I want. If things get ugly, use armor of agathys/fire shield to jump into the fray. Use hunger of hadar and fireballs to destroy large groups from a distance. Use burning hands & flaming sphere to destroy close groups. Use hex & eldritch blast to pick off ranged enemies. Undying warlock adds CHA mod to spells that deal fire & radiant spell damage.

[Farecry]

I played something similar to that concept, except I took it to 5 bm fighter first, that way I had some martial potency. Although I was light on spellcasting. It was a fun character though; Especially since I could ignore both the party clerics nonsense by rambling on about the undefined "light".

[KnotaGuru]

I played something similar to that concept, except I took it to 5 bm fighter first, that way I had some martial potency. Although I was light on spellcasting. It was a fun character though; Especially since I could ignore both the party clerics nonsense by rambling on about the undefined "light".

Yeah, it looks fun. I want to get to warlock 9 to have all the spells upcasted to 5th-level and another invocation. Then I may go back to fighter 2+. Although, warlock 11 gets 3 spell slots/short rest so that might be tempting too.

[KnotaGuru]

Arcane Trickster Rogue.

Play him as a Hired NPC who refuses to fight, unless paid handsomely per encounter, because the only things "In his Contract" is that he is there to disarm Traps and find secret doors and the like. Make him good at what he does but a cut-throat bastard who only cares about his $$$.

I'm using this suggestion to an extent and took the mercenary veteran background from SCAG



Might I suggest a Light Cleric? It has some AoE Blasting, good for mobs, some focused blasting, for bosses, and all the other cleric goodies, including healing and buffing spells.

I'll be playing a light cleric in an upcoming Curse of Strahd campaign so I wanted something different. I'm excited to play the light cleric though.