Suitable characters for winter-campaign?

[Firechanter]

Good evening Ladies and Gentlemen,

EDIT: the following post is obsolete. I'm not editing it again, but let it stand for future reference.

it's time to start a new game again, and just like last time I'd like to ask your advice on character selection.
I'd like to keep myself as spoiler-free as possible; so far I've read the Player's Guide and learned that, as the name implies, most of the campaign will take place in wintery surroundings.
Also, for some reason, it starts pretty far in the south, but still expects PCs to be cold-adapted and offers a bunch of "arctic" background traits. Kinda makes me wonder why the game has to start in the south then, but oh well...

Anyway. The other players for the most part haven't decided, so I guess I'm pretty much at liberty to pick whatever I like, though it probably wouldn't hurt to have multiple options to be able to fill any gaps that might arise.
So let me start the other way round maybe: is there anything I should better stay away from?
For instance, I reckon that an ice-specialized full caster might not have a lot of fun.
What about melee or ranged; heavy vs light armour etc? (Like, heavy armour was a very bad idea in Skull&Shackles)

I have an affinity to Full-BAB martial classes. So far I'm considering:
- Barbarian (Invul Rager) with strong anti-magic setup, i.e. Superstitious, Mageslayer (or whatever it's called) etc.
- Paladin (Vengeance) with Fey Foundling, as frontline Tank / Energizer Bunny
- Ranger as Switch Hitter; possibly with a Reach Weapon
- however, I also enjoy Wizards, but so far noone else has expressed interest in playing a melee class.

I don't know if Hybrid Classes are go, in that case I might be tempted to try a Bloodrager or Slayer. But for now let's assume only Core and Base classes are in.

[Firechanter]

No takers?
Okay, I adjusted the subject, if nobody knows the RoW AP then maybe at least a few of you have some general advice about games set in ice and snow.

[Grim Reader]

I have an affinity to Full-BAB martial classes. So far I'm considering:
- Barbarian (Invul Rager) with strong anti-magic setup, i.e. Superstitious, Mageslayer (or whatever it's called) etc.
- Paladin (Vengeance) with Fey Foundling, as frontline Tank / Energizer Bunny
- Ranger as Switch Hitter; possibly with a Reach Weapon
- however, I also enjoy Wizards, but so far noone else has expressed interest in playing a melee class.

I don't know if Hybrid Classes are go, in that case I might be tempted to try a Bloodrager or Slayer. But for now let's assume only Core and Base classes are in.

I'd go Hunter over Ranger. Much the same flavor, but simply better.

[Krazzman]

I ran a campaign for a Pathfinder Faerûn game I loveably titled: "Coldhearted Rashemen".

To sum up the party (there were minor houserules):
Merisiel - Frostelven Archer (Scout(Rogue)/Ranger)
Jorik - Human Witchguard (Barbarian/Oracle)
Rasha - Human Witch
Haling - Half-Frostelf Druid
Bâshnak - Half-Orc Ronin (Samurai)

I don't know anything about Reign of Winter as such take this with reasonable doubt.

Personally I would go for a Bloodrager (but I am currently itching to try one out...) and actually advise against Slayer. Bloodrager and Hunter are both solid melee options
Alternatively when pressed into yet another core+base game Ranger or Paladin (although my Feyfoundling Paladin of Vengeance is no fun in Carrion Crown).

About your heavy/light concern. In cold weather heavily iron/steel based armor is generally a bad idea but thankfully you don't have it directly on your skin and it should not really make any meaningful difference ingame. You might wanna check for weight still since it could be possible that there might be some lakes to be crossed with thinner ice.

Good luck.

[Firechanter]

I'd go Hunter over Ranger. Much the same flavor, but simply better.

Duly noted. I'm a bit skeptical due to the 3/4 BAB... does the class have any Attack boosters that push it effectively into 1/1 range, like the Warpriest does?
(You may think it's not a big deal, but if you knew my luck rolling dice, you'd understand why I really don't want to miss on anything but a 1.)



Personally I would go for a Bloodrager (but I am currently itching to try one out...) and actually advise against Slayer. Bloodrager and Hunter are both solid melee options
Alternatively when pressed into yet another core+base game Ranger or Paladin (although my Feyfoundling Paladin of Vengeance is no fun in Carrion Crown).

Thanks for the input. ^^
Care to elaborate why your Paladin is no fun there? I've read the CC Player's Guide and it claims that a Paladin would be a great choice. And Fey Foundling / Vengeance is exactly what I'd have in mind as well; seems pretty foolproof on paper.


About your heavy/light concern. In cold weather heavily iron/steel based armor is generally a bad idea but thankfully you don't have it directly on your skin and it should not really make any meaningful difference ingame. You might wanna check for weight still since it could be possible that there might be some lakes to be crossed with thinner ice.


Yeah well, I guess we'll just need our primary casters to throw around some Endure Elements until we can afford items.
The Player's Guide also mentions how snow is difficult terrain and eats your Move like crazy. I'm a little worried that A heavy-armour, 20ft-move melee character will be stuck in snow and peppered by volleys with no way of retaliation too often.

[Krazzman]

Duly noted. I'm a bit skeptical due to the 3/4 BAB... does the class have any Attack boosters that push it effectively into 1/1 range, like the Warpriest does?
(You may think it's not a big deal, but if you knew my luck rolling dice, you'd understand why I really don't want to miss on anything but a 1.)

The Hunter is stronger due to his spells and his far superior animal companion. Coupled with Teamwork feats (which makes Melee more viable than Archery for a Vanilla Hunter) you get nice things like "Flank when next to Animal Companion" and "Get +4 while flanking". And some other good Teamwork Feats. Additionally you have an animal focus that is pretty awesome if you trade out the teamwork stuff and just go without an animal companion.


Thanks for the input. ^^
Care to elaborate why your Paladin is no fun there? I've read the CC Player's Guide and it claims that a Paladin would be a great choice. And Fey Foundling / Vengeance is exactly what I'd have in mind as well; seems pretty foolproof on paper.

The Character is quite strong (Aasimar with 20 str and 18 cha so far). But some stuff happened and now I have a character immune to fear that is deathly afraid of slugs... as well as our bard being randomly either her sweet extrovert self or a stuck up snotty bitch due to the insanity system. I am the only one really dealing damage since we have support cleric, conjurer (non summoning) wizard and the bard (archer but has gotten disabled nearly every encounter so far).


Yeah well, I guess we'll just need our primary casters to throw around some Endure Elements until we can afford items.
The Player's Guide also mentions how snow is difficult terrain and eats your Move like crazy. I'm a little worried that A heavy-armour, 20ft-move melee character will be stuck in snow and peppered by volleys with no way of retaliation too often.

Innate resistance against cold damage might be a good investment of your build resources. About moving... there are ways around that. If you somehow get to ignore difficult terrain it will make your life easier. Easiest way would be going for Dragon Style which ignores terrain whilst charging, running and withdrawing and can be taken as soon as level 3 by everyone.

[Firechanter]

The Hunter is stronger due to his spells and his far superior animal companion. Coupled with Teamwork feats (which makes Melee more viable than Archery for a Vanilla Hunter) you get nice things like "Flank when next to Animal Companion" and "Get +4 while flanking". And some other good Teamwork Feats. Additionally you have an animal focus that is pretty awesome if you trade out the teamwork stuff and just go without an animal companion.

Wow not bad -- that alone should easily make up for the Med BAB, as long as you can keep your pet in play. Hmmmm! I also like that the Hunter doesn't get that Favoured Enemy nonsense.
Also, I kinda love spells, just didn't get the chance to review the spell list yet. I've already sent the GM a message asking if the Hybrids are in, waiting for a reply yet.
The poor Will Save might be a showstopper though... that particular AP also seems to fling quite a lot of mindf*** magic around.


The Character is quite strong (Aasimar with 20 str and 18 cha so far). But some stuff happened and now I have a character immune to fear that is deathly afraid of slugs... as well as our bard being randomly either her sweet extrovert self or a stuck up snotty bitch due to the insanity system. I am the only one really dealing damage since we have support cleric, conjurer (non summoning) wizard and the bard (archer but has gotten disabled nearly every encounter so far).

Well, sounds like CC as a whole isn't very much fun then, if you aren't into that horror theme with losing sanity and such. Good to know; ain't my cup of tea then.
As for your general party experiences... sounds kinda familiar. I used to play in a group where my Archer Cleric was the only character who dealt any reasonable damage. Most other players didn't really understand the system and refused to make an effort. Absolutely zero support or coordination. I left that game eventually, but that was when I devised the plan to play a FF Vengadin -- so I could simply solo the encounters if I couldn't rely on my teammates.


Innate resistance against cold damage might be a good investment of your build resources. About moving... there are ways around that. If you somehow get to ignore difficult terrain it will make your life easier. Easiest way would be going for Dragon Style which ignores terrain whilst charging, running and withdrawing and can be taken as soon as level 3 by everyone.

Right. Dragon Style would be awesome, it wasn't for that bloody feat tax in form of IUS. I have absolutely neither use nor room for that in my build. So I'll have to keep looking.
If I go for Paladin, I could simply take the alternative FC bonus and stack up Cold Resistance to 10/-. Barbarian has something similar if I recall. If all else fails I could just pick up a campaign trait that gives Cold Res 2/-, doesn't stack with anything but better than nothing.

[Krazzman]

Wow not bad -- that alone should easily make up for the Med BAB, as long as you can keep your pet in play. Hmmmm! I also like that the Hunter doesn't get that Favoured Enemy nonsense.
Also, I kinda love spells, just didn't get the chance to review the spell list yet. I've already sent the GM a message asking if the Hybrids are in, waiting for a reply yet.
The poor Will Save might be a showstopper though... that particular AP also seems to fling quite a lot of mindf*** magic around.

Yeah, don't know how good the spell list is but afaik it's better than ranger. Animal Focus gives you some nice situational bonus.


Well, sounds like CC as a whole isn't very much fun then, if you aren't into that horror theme with losing sanity and such. Good to know; ain't my cup of tea then.
As for your general party experiences... sounds kinda familiar. I used to play in a group where my Archer Cleric was the only character who dealt any reasonable damage. Most other players didn't really understand the system and refused to make an effort. Absolutely zero support or coordination. I left that game eventually, but that was when I devised the plan to play a FF Vengadin -- so I could simply solo the encounters if I couldn't rely on my teammates.

That is not really the problem. I just think the sanity system introduced in carrion crown is horrendous. I made my save and got more sanity points than the cleric who failed his and some other nonsense. Coupled with a basically nearly guaranteed chance (at least when we aquire more insanity) psychosis which will mess up 2 characters and make them unplayable, effectively killing them... (getting turnt CE is no fun). It just feels, badly executed (German proverb: Übers Knie gebrochen [basically splitting something on your knee]).
I am in a different Strange Aeons campaign and we consider to play Cthulu due to one player being not available at the moment in that group.


Right. Dragon Style would be awesome, it wasn't for that bloody feat tax in form of IUS. I have absolutely neither use nor room for that in my build. So I'll have to keep looking.
If I go for Paladin, I could simply take the alternative FC bonus and stack up Cold Resistance to 10/-. Barbarian has something similar if I recall. If all else fails I could just pick up a campaign trait that gives Cold Res 2/-, doesn't stack with anything but better than nothing.

If you can fit it in a one level dip of Scaled Fist or Free-Style Fighter might be a good way to gain something like that. Elsewise there are Snowshoes (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/goods-and-services/containers-bags-boxes-more#TOC-Snowshoes) or sometime after level 2: Featherstep Boots (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/r-z/slippers-feather-step) since they don't need to be slippers. Or go Dwarf and get movement bonuses (Travel Domain, Barbarian or similar).

[Coidzor]

If you can be nonstandard race, there's a template that makes a creature immune to mundane cold and resistant to cold damage flavored as adaptation to the eternal winter of Irrisen.

[Serafina]

Hunters basically get Ranger AND Druid spells, if only up to 6th level.
So you aren't missing out on any Ranger-spells at all.

The poor Will-save is also helped by using Wisdom for casting, so putting a 16 or so there and later increasing it via items is actually worthwhile, and makes sure you Will-save isn't too glaring a weakness.



As for full BAB classes, if Hybrids are allowed, the Bloodrager is pretty great and if you go for the Draconic Bloodline, you can get Cold resistance that way.
Alternatively, the Elemental Bloodline works too, though it's honestly not as a great as Draconic.
The Shades bloodline also happens to give Cold Resistance at 8th level, as does the Undead bloodline - so you have a lot of options there!

[Geddy2112]

If for nothing else but shameless self promotion, I would strongly suggest the winter witch. Here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wmoteATkSek-2S3Touag_jOe32O69sYTWNy9tnTi3bM/edit) is a handy guide to the winter witch if you are interested.

[Faily]

If this is the campaign I think it is...

Cleric with Sun and Fire Domain.

I think I made my GM want to cry a few times. I was the party's primary-blaster and only healer, and had a ton of fun with my build. :smallbiggrin:

Raani, Cleric of Sarenrae (https://www.myth-weavers.com//sheet.html#id=626324)

[Firechanter]

That is not really the problem. I just think the sanity system introduced in carrion crown is horrendous. I made my save and got more sanity points than the cleric who failed his and some other nonsense. Coupled with a basically nearly guaranteed chance (at least when we aquire more insanity) psychosis which will mess up 2 characters and make them unplayable, effectively killing them... (getting turnt CE is no fun). It just feels, badly executed (German proverb: Übers Knie gebrochen [basically splitting something on your knee]).

Yeah, I'm not surprised. Paizo really seems to love half-baked and dysfunctional meta-mechanisms in their APs. Like in Skull&Shackles where all the sailors have to drink a pint of rum every day, but only the PCs have to roll Fort saves and risk becoming unplayable or even die. But the CC mechanic seems to be miles worse than that.
Also, I'm really really fed up with the massive hardon the Paizo authors have about Cthulhu stuff. If I wanted to play Cthulhu, I would.


Elsewise there are Snowshoes (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/goods-and-services/containers-bags-boxes-more#TOC-Snowshoes) or sometime after level 2: Featherstep Boots (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/r-z/slippers-feather-step) since they don't need to be slippers.

These look fine. 2K seems to be an acceptable price too.


If you can be nonstandard race, there's a template that makes a creature immune to mundane cold and resistant to cold damage flavored as adaptation to the eternal winter of Irrisen.

I'm afraid that is not on the table.



As for full BAB classes, if Hybrids are allowed, the Bloodrager is pretty great and if you go for the Draconic Bloodline, you can get Cold resistance that way.
Alternatively, the Elemental Bloodline works too, though it's honestly not as a great as Draconic.
The Shades bloodline also happens to give Cold Resistance at 8th level, as does the Undead bloodline - so you have a lot of options there!

Nice, quite a selection here. I guess I'd go for Draconic in that case, then -- if I take a Bloodrager after all.


If for nothing else but shameless self promotion, I would strongly suggest the winter witch. Here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wmoteATkSek-2S3Touag_jOe32O69sYTWNy9tnTi3bM/edit) is a handy guide to the winter witch if you are interested.

I've read warnings against going Winter Witch in this AP, because apparently they focus on the one damage type that the vast majority of enemies are immune to. That said, Witch isn't really my style, I'd rather be a Witch Hunter of some kind.


If this is the campaign I think it is...

Cleric with Sun and Fire Domain.

I think I made my GM want to cry a few times. I was the party's primary-blaster and only healer, and had a ton of fun with my build. :smallbiggrin:

Raani, Cleric of Sarenrae (https://www.myth-weavers.com//sheet.html#id=626324)

Haha, I can imagine! xD
And yes it's exactly that campaign. ;)
Though if I end up playing a Full Caster -- if someone else takes care of the Melee role -- I'd rather play a Wizard. Clerics are great and all, but I've played that class too often in the past and am a bit fed up with it. Not that Wizard suffer any shortage of fire spells, mind you...

[Grim Reader]

Yeah, don't know how good the spell list is but afaik it's better than ranger.

Hunter spell list is Ranger list + Druid list. If a spell is on both at different levels, use the lowest. Since the Hunter gets spells at a much faster rate than the Ranger, the Hunter will normally have Ranger spells many levels before the Ranger does.

[Krazzman]

Hunter spell list is Ranger list + Druid list. If a spell is on both at different levels, use the lowest. Since the Hunter gets spells at a much faster rate than the Ranger, the Hunter will normally have Ranger spells many levels before the Ranger does.

Jeah. That sounds better... current campaign is just core base and unchained classes. So far I just got to tinker a bit with a brawler and slayer (my wife's and another players chars )


The cleric made me remember something.
There was a build of an ifrit elemental sorcerer that basically just spammed geyser later and dealt massive amounts of damage through that. Basically a mailman build.

[Barstro]

If you are going to look at Hunter, I suggest giving Inquisitor a look as well.

To my eye, they look like they have a similar system. I played Ranged Inquisitor (which I thought would be a bit weaker than melee) and was by far the most consistent damage dealer of the party.

[Coidzor]

If you are going to look at Hunter, I suggest giving Inquisitor a look as well.

To my eye, they look like they have a similar system. I played Ranged Inquisitor (which I thought would be a bit weaker than melee) and was by far the most consistent damage dealer of the party.

And if you like the pet, you can even be a Sacred Huntsmaster.

[Firechanter]

Alright guys and gals... thanks for the input, everyone!

"Situation changes dictate the engagement", as we said in the army:
looks like we're not gonna play the winter campaign after all.

For the AP we have agreed upon instead, Kingmaker, the Paladin I orginally envisioned will do just fine. ^^
Now there's just the question what deity he should follow, mainly I'm undecided betweed Abadar and Sarenrae.

Both deities would open up an interesting Religion trait: get Perception skill in class, or be able to hit for Subdual damage without penalty. The latter of course would lend itself to an Intimidate build.
RP-wise, both would be a fine fit. Abadar maybe a bit better due to all that "bring the light of civilization into the wilderness".
Decisions, decisions... ^^

[Rerednaw]

Alright guys and gals... thanks for the input, everyone!

"Situation changes dictate the engagement", as we said in the army:
looks like we're not gonna play the winter campaign after all.

For the AP we have agreed upon instead, Kingmaker, the Paladin I orginally envisioned will do just fine. ^^
Now there's just the question what deity he should follow, mainly I'm undecided betweed Abadar and Sarenrae.

Both deities would open up an interesting Religion trait: get Perception skill in class, or be able to hit for Subdual damage without penalty. The latter of course would lend itself to an Intimidate build.
RP-wise, both would be a fine fit. Abadar maybe a bit better due to all that "bring the light of civilization into the wilderness".
Decisions, decisions... ^^

LOL. Just read through this thread and have a ton of suggestions. Spoiler-free, even though I've run the entire Reign of Winter AP.

I would have suggested that pure extreme alignments may have issues. Big darn heroes works...inflexible codes will run into potentially sticky situations.

Regarding Kingmaker...Casters even more so than one would expect for an AP are king. That said some 2/3 casters like Bard are a blast and a half. Sometimes diplomacy before smiting is helpful.

Good luck.

[Firechanter]

Yeah I'm aware of that... I started playing that AP once before, years ago, the group just proved unreliable...
Anyway, I have also heard from many other people that you very often have only one encounter per day, so casters can blast and cast to their hearts' content.
I've also read that some groups have agreed to refresh "daily" resources only every four encounters, as to not make it boringly easy.

If I wanted to play a full caster, it would be a Wizard. For 2/3 Caster, probably Magus.