Rogue/Barbarian Dex build

[Jgosse]

I know it is not the strongest build but it is the build I want to play.
I am doing a Stout Halfling Rogue/Barbarian. Str 14, Dex 20, Con 18, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 12. I am just wondering should I go Barbarian 2,4, or 5.
I Know that Dmg for rage only applies when using STR and I dont care.
Barbarian 2 I get reckless Atk and get SA on every Atk (may go TWF).
Barbarian 4 Feat or ASI
Barbarian 5 Extra Atk.
The main goal is Unarmored defense and reckless rage. If I hit 3rd probably go Bear totem Barbarian I just don't know if ASI

[Farecry]

Do note that SA is only once per turn, do you wouldnt be applying that on the extra attack.

[Jgosse]

Do note that SA is only once per turn, do you wouldnt be applying that on the extra attack.

That is a stroke against going for it.

[Callin]

Sneak Attack being once a turn is fine. Remeber if you twf without the fighting style you dont add your mod to damage. Still viable but with rogue you might have a better use of your bonus action. I play with a Barb/Rog in a game. He does twf and only does his offhand if he misses or has no use for his bonus that turn.

[NecessaryWeevil]

Remember also that Reckless Attack only applies if you are attacking with Strength.

Which isn't to say "Don't play this concept" - I'm playing a Fig 1 / Rog 1 / Bar 4 myself.

Are you aware of this guide? http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?468625-Graceful-Destruction-A-Guide-to-Dex-Based-Barbarism

[Deleted]

Barbarian 2 at most.

The Rogue already gains an extra ASI, you shouldn't be sticking around to get hit, and rage already gives you resistance to the most common damage you will see.

Honestly barbarian 1 would be fine too, if all you really want is unarmed defense (unless reckless rage is reckless attack...).

If you go Barbarian 3, wolf totem is a stronger option if you have melee friends.

[Gignere]

For rogue barbarian you want your dex and str abilities swapped. You need to attack with strength. Dex is really just for the multi requirement. You will wear medium armor so 14 dex is all you really need.

[Deleted]

For rogue barbarian you want your dex and str abilities swapped. You need to attack with strength. Dex is really just for the multi requirement. You will wear medium armor so 14 dex is all you really need.

Eh, not really. Dexbarians work just fine.

The AC is going to be great (19 or 21) and reckless attack allows for strength to stay at 14 or 16 (depending on level) and keep up with damage while raging with strength (rage bonus damage helps). When you aren't raging, you can use dex to attack.

Plus picking up a bow is a decent option, especially as the character gains rogue levels with that juicy sneak attack.

Barbarians make good switch hitters because reckless attack makes up for some loss in strength score.

I'm going to run a Barbarian that has like an 8 in strength quite soon.

[Jgosse]

I know the reasoning behind it but I get frustrated with how hard it is to make things mesh in 5E. This build is not working the way I was hoping.

[Jgosse]

For rogue barbarian you want your dex and str abilities swapped. You need to attack with strength. Dex is really just for the multi requirement. You will wear medium armor so 14 dex is all you really need.

Why would I ever choose to wear armour of any kind with unarmored defense.

[Deleted]

Why would I ever choose to wear armour of any kind with unarmored defense.

So you dont have to focus on dex so much.

[Gignere]

Why would I ever choose to wear armour of any kind with unarmored defense.

+3 breastplate

[bid]

Barbarian 5: the extra attack helps to land your SA, and it allows you to use a shield without gimping your DPR.

[Deleted]

+3 breastplate

Doesn't actually exist as a player option so I woupdnt give advice or build around the idea of something that might happen at level 18.

[Jgosse]

Doesn't actually exist as a player option so I woupdnt give advice or build around the idea of something that might happen at level 18.

That was my thought. Not to mention high Dex and Con add a lot more to the character over just depending on magical medium armor. Also by the level that would show up I should have Dex and Con almost maxed if not maxed and there would be better Items I could get instead. Least of all is I am never unarmored. Dex is always a priority when I build a barbarian.

[Jgosse]

So you dont have to focus on dex so much.

That's a falid point. Particularly on a point buy not rolling build.

[Dalebert]

I'm going to run a Barbarian that has like an 8 in strength quite soon.

I'd love to hear the reasoning for that decision. Obviously single-classed or it wouldn't be allowed. If you were going barbarian / rogue, I could see it maybe.

[Deleted]

I'd love to hear the reasoning for that decision. Obviously single-classed or it wouldn't be allowed. If you were going barbarian / rogue, I could see it maybe.

I'm playing a "familiar"

Or at least a barbarian who thinks he is a familiar...

Non-Rage Tactics: Run around using the help action or doing other things. Allies grant cover so I would stand between archers and my allies.

Rage Tactics: Wolf Totem and run around swinging wildly.


Boost Con, Dex, and Wis.

Feats up for consideration: Mobile, Magic Initiate, Ritual Caster (a familiar with a familiar!), resilient (his), and healer.

Not sure what race just yet, but hot diggity daffodil will this he fun.

[Diebo]

I’m a fan of non-optimal but fun choices. With those starting stats, you don’t really need to be optimal. You can take feats that you want versus need.
With any build, you want it to be fun to play, whether exploring, social situations, or combat. As a rogue, you’ll be able to cover the skills necessary for exploring and social.

For combat, I always try to think about what my character will be doing as an action, bonus action, and reaction. Obviously as a rogue, you’d like to get reactions to trigger your sneak attack.

I don’t like two weapon fighting for a rogue, as it burns up your bonus action, which would be better spent on cunning action. That said, with only one attack, using the off-hand bonus attack to try to hit and deliver the sneak attack is solid to start.
With all that in mind, and if you can use the Sword Coast Adventure’s guide, I would recommend an Elk Totem Barbarian 5/Swashbuckler 15. I’d pick up shield master for the first feat.

I’d go lightfoot rather than stout for hide in plain sight. You can use an ASI to increase CON and WIS +1 each, and later use Resilient WIS to help with your awful WIS saves.

I’d start Rogue 1 for expertise and other skills. Grab athletics and stealth.

Level 2 go for Barbarian 1 for Unarmored Defense and Rage (and shield proficiency). Your AC is now 20 with a shield, but I’d stay two-weapon for now to make sure one of your sneak attacks hits.

Level 3 grab Rogue 2 for Cunning Action. You can now dash, disengage, or hide (and as a lightfoot Halfling, hide behind another player). I’d pick up the shield at this point (using bonus action to hide, which gives advantage).

And Rogue 3 makes the most sense next, as you get an archtype AND another sneak attack damage. I’d go Swashbuckler. You get limited disengage if you make an attack, plus add your charisma modifier to your initiative (I’d swap IQ and CHAR if you can). Also, you can sneak attack without having advantage or being next to someone.

Next I’d probably go Barbarian to level 5. Level 2 gets you danger sense and reckless attack, 3 gets you totem elk for +15 movement (you can now move 80 in a turn with dash, and with swashbuckler can disengage). Level 4 is an ASI; pick up shield master. I love the non-optimal thought of a barbarian Halfling with a shield, knocking people prone with a shield sweep. Now, you can run up to someone, use a bonus action to knock them prone (while raging you have advantage on the roll, and with expertise in athletics and 14 strength you will likely succeed). Only works on medium or smaller, but for bigger things you can just hide and stab for advantage, or attack next to someone else. If it succeeds, just normal attack for advantage and sneak attack. If it doesn’t, you can still reckless attack for advantage. Level 5 barbarian gets you an extra attack (yeah!) to make sure the sneak attack hits, and +10 feet more movement.

Your build it mostly complete at this level. You have 50 base movement while raging, 100 with dash. You can dash or shield bash, and still disengage for free. Barbarian gets you advantage on dex saves, shield master gets you +2 on top of that, and you have evasion a bit earlier than you otherwise would have. You can go anywhere on the battlefield and knock out spell casters, or go toe-to-toe up front.

Higher levels go swashbuckler. Level 5 gives you uncanny dodge, which stacked with barbarian rage is pretty impressive. For ASIs, grab +3 con, +1 wis with two ASIs, resilient WIS with another, and either luck or mobility to round things out.

[Citan]

I know it is not the strongest build but it is the build I want to play.
I am doing a Stout Halfling Rogue/Barbarian. Str 14, Dex 20, Con 18, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 12. I am just wondering should I go Barbarian 2,4, or 5.
I Know that Dmg for rage only applies when using STR and I dont care.
Barbarian 2 I get reckless Atk and get SA on every Atk (may go TWF).
Barbarian 4 Feat or ASI
Barbarian 5 Extra Atk.
The main goal is Unarmored defense and reckless rage. If I hit 3rd probably go Bear totem Barbarian I just don't know if ASI
Hi!
Well, with those stats it will be very good. Don't worry, this mix is not necessarily underpowered.
Since you can use a finesse weapon with STR. ;)

I'm not sure of what Rogue archetype would be the best mechanically, so I'd suggest you to just take one for fluff (even Arcane Trickster in fact, although it would be very restrictive in fight since you can't cast while raging).

Barbarian 5 / Rogue 5 should feel fine and very strong both offensively and defensively.
- Bear damage reduction + Uncanny Dodge + high HP + great AC for defense. ;)
- Extra Attack + Sneak Attack for good damage (not great, but good enough).
- 10 feet bonus move + Cunning Action for mobility.

If you have no idea for Rogue archetype, I'd suggest Thief, another use of bonus action that can be exploited in diverse situations. ;)

[Deleted]

Hi!
Well, with those stats it will be very good. Don't worry, this mix is not necessarily underpowered.
Since you can use a finesse weapon with STR. ;)

I'm not sure of what Rogue archetype would be the best mechanically, so I'd suggest you to just take one for fluff (even Arcane Trickster in fact, although it would be very restrictive in fight since you can't cast while raging).

Barbarian 5 / Rogue 5 should feel fine and very strong both offensively and defensively.
- Bear damage reduction + Uncanny Dodge + high HP + great AC for defense. ;)
- Extra Attack + Sneak Attack for good damage (not great, but good enough).
- 10 feet bonus move + Cunning Action for mobility.

If you have no idea for Rogue archetype, I'd suggest Thief, another use of bonus action that can be exploited in diverse situations. ;)


Barbatians don't rage for every fight, especially MC ones, so having spells is a good thing. Though AT doesn't get enough spells...

However, a barbarian that is invisible and sneaks into the middle of a group of enemies and then rages would be hilarious.

Yeah, the invisibility drops, but so will the enemy's bricks.

[MightyK]

A TWF Barbarian Rogue can be very powerful. The beauty is the reckless attack, but you NEED strength for it. So you will be using finesse weapons with STR.

Barbarian 5, Rogue X is a bid of a mid-late game character.
Barb 5 is minimum imho because two regular attacks is just great, and 3 rages per day sounds like the bare minimum to me. Maybe Barb 6 after a few Rogue levels as well.
Ok, let's see
We start as a Barbarian because we want medium armor and decent starting HP.
As Variant Humans we take the TWF Feat and can wield any 2 1-Handed weapons. Basically anything we find along the road. We also get +1 AC.
Stats with point buy: 16, 14, 16, 8, 10, 8 yes, the mental stats are bad, but that's just the way it is... (Alternative is: 16, 14, 14, 10, 10, 10 but I like my HP, especially since we take so many d8 rogue levels...)
At lvl 1 we start out "naked" with AC 16 (10+3+2+1) but we will get a breastplate asap for AC 17. Maybe even half plate for 18, depending on how much you sneak. (You can also always grab a shield if necessary.)

So lets say it gets interesting at lvl 8.

Barb 5, Rogue 3. 2d6 sneak damage, 2 Rapiers.
We have 2 attacks for 1d8+3+2 and 1 for 1d8+2 when raging. We can make all these at advantage if we want and once per turn we can add another 2d6 dmg.

The beauty is: 3 attacks, advantage and doubling sneak dmg on a crit.
So what we do is, we attack once, only apply sneak damage on a crit, and then do our second attack. We sneak then even if it is "only" a hit, and have the 3rd attack for backup.
When we sit out the first possibility to apply our sneak damage, we only have a 4,10% chance to miss both other attacks, but a 9,75% chance to crit on our second attack, doubling our sneak damage. All in all our expected sneak damage per turn goes from 7 to 8,20 with this "method".
If you did your sneak damage with the 2nd attack, you can also use your bonus action for something else. 1d8+0 is not that sexy. At least when you are raging it becomes 1d8+2...

Also as a Rogue, you get Uncanny dodge and evasion, allowing you to often only take 1/4 damage. Very tanky.
You get Expertise as well, and get very good at shoving and grappling if you ever want to mix it up...


If you take the Swashbuckler Archetype (SCAG), nobody you attacked (with your three attacks and up to 55feet speed (Elk totem)) can make an AOO against you.

[Citan]

A TWF Barbarian Rogue can be very powerful. The beauty is the reckless attack, but you NEED strength for it. So you will be using finesse weapons with STR.

Shoot, you are right, totally forgot that (this will learn me to stay away from D&d for weeks ^^).
Thanks for clarifying and proposing viable build (I also prefer your first option with 14 DEX: you don't profit as much from Unarmored, but since you can also rage with medium armor and shield it's not really a problem).

[Dalebert]

My bugbearian / rogue is going rogue 18 / barb 2. I figure I will primarily play as a rogue using the reach to I don't have to disengage. If I do get in a pinch, rage is something I can use to off-tank a bit and throw in some extra damage. I don't care enough about the extra rage or the extra attack to delay rogue features by 3 more levels. Most of the synergy between barbarian and rogue is in those first two levels. Reckless Attack and Danger Sense with DS making up for no dex save proficiency in combination with Evasion.

It just seems so rare that I won't land my sneak attack after two attacks with advantage and that's the primary source of my dmg. Rage +2 dmg is just icing. Off-hand dmg after landing sneak attack is icing. If I land the sneak on attack 1, I'll often not bother with the off-hand if there's some Cunning Action that will be helpful.

[djreynolds]

I think what ever you make, 5th rogue for uncanny dodge is very good to have.
I feel expertise in athletics is equal to indomitable .. maybe with a maxed strength.

It depends on how much of each class you want.

[Dalebert]

I feel expertise in athletics is equal to indomitable .. maybe with a maxed strength.

That's another area of synergy I forgot about. My bugbearian has expertise in athletics and rage gives him adv. That's a brutal combo that happens very early. I'm looking forward to grappling someone with reach and moving them somewhere. I may take the grappler feat.

[djreynolds]

That's another area of synergy I forgot about. My bugbearian has expertise in athletics and rage gives him adv. That's a brutal combo that happens very early. I'm looking forward to grappling someone with reach and moving them somewhere. I may take the grappler feat.

I'd let you pile drive them. Or perform a back breaker.

Damm grappler, I want a wrestler that suplex people for real damage

[Deleted]

I think what ever you make, 5th rogue for uncanny dodge is very good to have.
I feel expertise in athletics is equal to indomitable .. maybe with a maxed strength.

It depends on how much of each class you want.

Indomitable is a joke feature. Especially at level 9 and being a long rest mechanic.

Expertise allows you to keep your Strength score unmaxed and still be a huge threat with Athletics. Expertise is miles ahead of indomitable because the saving throw system is stacked against pretty much everyone.

Uncanny Dodge is one of the best defensive features in the game.

[djreynolds]

Indomitable strength in this context, the barbarians

But I agree fighter's Indomitable is weak, resilient wisdom is a must.

[Deleted]

Indomitable strength in this context, the barbarians

But I agree fighter's Indomitable is weak, resilient wisdom is a must.

Ah, thought you was calling for a Fighter/Barbarian multiclass... I was confused as to why anyone would go 9 levels for that feature haha.

I wouldn't say Resilient Wis is a must... But... It mostly depends on your DM's play style. The saving throw system really hates players :/

[djreynolds]

Every combat... my martials run tail in fear and take a reaction to pee themselves.

Even with Indomitable and even lucky... with a 8 or 10 in wisdom... you literally have to roll a 18,19, or 20.

Resilient wisdom just makes it easier.

Otherwise you're stuck hanging out next to the paladin doing something brave.... and crazy stupid.