Battlemage Help. Fighter 12 / Warlock 8. What Pact and Patron?

[Nataris]

Hello everyone. Wondering if you long timers can help a newb with a battlemage build. I'm not trying to min max here. The idea thus far is Fighter 12 Warlock 8.

I plan to pick Battle master fighter using a halber and using the 8 lvls in warlock to give utility spells along with Eldrich Blast for ranged needs. The warlock aspect is mainly for out of combat spells and utility to balance the combat from fighter.

The question is, I need major help deciding what Pact and Patron to use. Some have suggested Pact Blade but I almost feel like I'm getting enough combat out of the fighter lvls and think balancing it with overall utility spells would be better. Not very knowledgeable about locks though.

Does anyone have any recommendations here? What patron and pact would be best for what I'm looking for?

Notes:
-Strength and Charisma based
-5 Ability Score Improvements
-Battle master fighter
-Polearms + Great Weapon Master
-Eldritch Blast for softening enemies from afar.
-Warlock spells for utility and to be relevant outside of combat
-RP > Min/Max (just don't want to be too gimped)

[Callin]

Edit. Okay BM fighter.

Hmmm. I would go Tome or Chain. Tome for utility out of combat or chain for help action advantage.

Pact is a toss up though Fey would give you a teleport

[Tanthalas899]

I would go Chain for the added utility of a familiar, and use the Fiend pact to get the extra temporary hit points for killing things. plus the hp won't go away after short rests which is what you will mostly be doing because most of your abilities recharge after a short rest.

[Nataris]

Thanks for the tips thus far. I added a notes section to the OP with more info planned so far in case that changes anything.

[djreynolds]

I think fighter 8 and warlock 12 pact of the blade, is better.

I think fighter 3-4, and warlock 12, and then 4 levels of something else would be better

Life drinker at level 12 add charisma to your damage, so that with PAM is +10 to every strike

I know that warlock spell casting works with fighter well because of the short rest

Look at fighter 4/ warlock 12/ lore bard 4

[MrFahrenheit]

Hello everyone. Wondering if you long timers can help a newb with a battlemage build. I'm not trying to min max here. The idea thus far is Fighter 12 Warlock 8.

I plan to pick Battle master fighter using a halber and using the 8 lvls in warlock to give utility spells along with Eldrich Blast for ranged needs. The warlock aspect is mainly for out of combat spells and utility to balance the combat from fighter.

The question is, I need major help deciding what Pact and Patron to use. Some have suggested Pact Blade but I almost feel like I'm getting enough combat out of the fighter lvls and think balancing it with overall utility spells would be better. Not very knowledgeable about locks though.

Does anyone have any recommendations here? What patron and pact would be best for what I'm looking for?

Notes:
-Strength and Charisma based
-5 Ability Score Improvements
-Battle master fighter
-Polearms + Great Weapon Master
-Eldritch Blast for softening enemies from afar.
-Warlock spells for utility and to be relevant outside of combat
-RP > Min/Max (just don't want to be too gimped)

Too much warlock. I'd say dip three levels (for chain), and go EK instead of BM. Being able to pop off an eldritch blast + GWM + PAM is no joke. Take war caster along the way so you don't have to worry about melee disadvantage on the EB.

TBH, I feel like you'd probably be happier with a straight-up EK. You'd still get a familiar (albeit not as powerful, but that's irrelevant if your primary usage for it is the help action and not magic resistance), and you'd still get OOC utility spells.

Then there's this build: EK X/paladin 2/lore bard 3. Max possible slots for smiting in combat at 20th level, plus three extra skills from bard, plus the familiar (assuming you can take two MCs).

[Haldir]

yeah, unfortunately the way that proficienies work in the 5e system kinda means that any melee class only needs to get to level 5 to really come online. If you really wanted to minmax it I'd go Fighter 5 Warlock 1 Paladin or Sorc depending on whether you want more melee damage with spells or metamagic.

[Quoxis]

"Battlemage" is a relative term. Warlocks have incredibly few spell slots, at Level 8 i think it should be 2 of them, so you'll be more of a battlemaster with some strong spells and cantrips instead of a mage with a sword.
Pact of the blade is cool and flavorful, though its most beneficial feature, the invocation that lets you add your cha modifier to weapon damage, becomes available at Level 12.
Pact of the tome would give you access to shillellagh (a cantrip that imitates this effect, but only on a quarterstaff or club; quarterstaff still works with almost everything listed in the polearm master feat, except it doesn't have reach) or the melee cantrips from SCAG, e.g. booming blade and green flame blade; these two aren't compatible with extra attacks afaik, though that might be a misconception on my side. Either way, especially booming blade is worth getting checked out for any melee weapon user in my opinion.
Last but not lesst there's the pact of the chain with a potentially invisible familiar with either poison or sleep darts. Can also grant you advantage, even if invisible (therefore harder to kill than the easily stomped spider familiar your puny wizard is sporting).
As for pacts: a sword (or in your case: halberd) fighter that sold his soul to the devil for power is both a cool concept and a nice bonus to melee fighters: each time you kill someone (which you will ideally be doing all the time) you get temporary hp (which is not healing, but better!), and at level 6 you can... give yourself advantage or something. That's probably what you want.

[Callin]

Thinking more on it. Go Tome along with Fiend Pact to gain utility like you said you wanted. Pick up Guidance, Prestidigitation, and Minor Illusion. Pick Booming Blade and EB from Warlock. Take the Warcaster Feat along with PAM. Use Booming Blade. Regular round attacks use your 3 and bonus from PAM Weapon Attacks. Use Armor of Agathas for Temp HP and retaliation damage.

You get 4 Invocations- going the Utility route still, Agonizing Blast for your EB ranged attacks, Book of Ancient Secrets, (if you didnt pick them) Beguiling Influence to get prof in Deception and Persuasion, Mask of Many Faces (if you want to be a Face Character, you can play your own agent lol.), Eyes of the Runekeeper could be handy in situations, though with BoAS and Comprehend Lang you may not need this, all depending on how much time you got. For Combat Utility there is always Fiendish Vigor.

BM I would pick Pushing Attack to go along with the PAM, Warcaster, Booming Blade Combo. If someone gets close to ya push em back and when they try to come back in close you either stop em from getting close to you or deal em more Damage. Rally could be a good one as well since you are focusing on Charisma. Got an Ally getting beat up use your Bonus Action to give it Temp HP. I would also use Distracting Attack.

Thats my suggestions. I would also pick up a Familiar with BoAS to get the cheap version of Pact of the Chain.

Spells- Armor of Agathas, Fireball, Invisibility, Hex, Fly, Banishment, Dimension Door. All in no particular Order.

[Nataris]

Thanks again all. Still need some help if possible.....

Callen, that is a good idea and what I was thinking too. Think I'll be going this route.

Now I need a bit more help. I'm joining a group that is at lvl 4 and don't know how I should set the lvls. I was thinking of starting 3-1 fighter-warlock. But I'm worried that I'm gimp in myself too much by not getting at least to 4 for the Ability Score Improvements (Which I think I'll take for a +2 Constitution since it's only at 12). Let alone the fact I'll be delaying extra attack at 5th fighter lvl.

I could really use help now at figuring out the lvl ratio for lvl 4 using the build Callen described above.

Build so far with rolled stats and racial bonus:
Final Plan- Dragonborn Fighter 12 (Battlemaster) Warlock 8 (Fiend/Tome)
Polearm, Great Weapon Master, Eldritch Blast, Utility spells
Strength 18 (rolled 16)
Charisma 16 (rolled 15)
Constitution 12
Dex 11
Wisdom 10
INT 7

TL;DR
Please help figure out the what the fighter/warlock ratio should be starting at lvl 4. I'd love to go 3/1 fighter but worried I need that +2 Con from ability score improvement at fighter 4 or even the extra attack at lvl 5.

[Callin]

A few options here depending on how you want the character to feel right now. Do you want to already have a small bit of magic? I will give a few suggestions and let you pick what you think would be best for you.

Fighter 4- HP 32 go ahead and take PAM and your BM Maneuvers. Then take Fighter 5, then Warlock 4 with Warcaster and then Fighter 6 +2 Con. Gives a total of 88 HP. You will be doing the whole combo by level 9.

Fighter 3/ Warlock 1- HP 31. You are using Hex, Armor of Agathas and BM Maneuvers in Combat. Level up Fighter 4 and grab PAM, Fighter 5, Then Warlock 4 and finally Fighter 6 for +2 Con. Then see above.

Warlock 4- No. You need Heavy Armor and this wont give it to ya.

Fighter 1/ Warlock 3- HP 29. You are using Hex and Armor of Agathas in Combat. Tome Lock gives you all the out of Combat we talked about. Go Warlock 4 and grab PAM, Then Fighter 6 and get Warcaster and +2 Con.

Out of all of these the first 2 are probably the best bet. The first one if you want to rush to your Second Attack. The second if you want to already start with a bit of Casting so you dont have to worry about how you acquire it in game. If you get to where your HP is suffering you can switch the +2 Con with any feat, though with the Temp HP from Armor of Agathas and Fiend Lock you should be fine. All in all by level 8 you should have your Full Spell Utility and by level 9 your full Combo. From there its all up to you and how the game is progressing.

[bid]

Fighter 5, then warlock 2.

You should aim for BM 11 / tomelock 9, that would give you 5th level spells at the cost of your last ASI. With your high rolled stats, you don't need it.

EK 9 / lock 11 would give you more spell slots, but I don't think that's what you're looking for.

You don't need warcaster with polearms. Your weapon does enough damage, you can't cast at reach and you already have Con proficiency.

[Davemeddlehed]

Definitely Tome for pact. Those extra cantrips from any class are going to provide all the utility you're looking for and then some.

Patron wise, I actually like the Great Old One. Telepathic communication, and once per rest disadvantage both help the battlemaster, and telepathic communication fits the battlemaster thematically as a battlefield leader/tactician.

[Citan]

Hello everyone. Wondering if you long timers can help a newb with a battlemage build. I'm not trying to min max here. The idea thus far is Fighter 12 Warlock 8.

I plan to pick Battle master fighter using a halber and using the 8 lvls in warlock to give utility spells along with Eldrich Blast for ranged needs. The warlock aspect is mainly for out of combat spells and utility to balance the combat from fighter.

The question is, I need major help deciding what Pact and Patron to use. Some have suggested Pact Blade but I almost feel like I'm getting enough combat out of the fighter lvls and think balancing it with overall utility spells would be better. Not very knowledgeable about locks though.

Does anyone have any recommendations here? What patron and pact would be best for what I'm looking for?

Notes:
-Strength and Charisma based
-5 Ability Score Improvements
-Battle master fighter
-Polearms + Great Weapon Master
-Eldritch Blast for softening enemies from afar.
-Warlock spells for utility and to be relevant outside of combat
-RP > Min/Max (just don't want to be too gimped)
Hi!

Considering your goals and start, one "best" suggestion seem easy to me:
Pact: Tome: with the Ritual casting invocation, you will be able to potentially learn every ritual up to 3rd level, which is plain awesome and will make you THE utility wielder of the group. Or course, if your group has already a wizard, or a cleric, or both, it's less important.

Patron: Fey: you get archetype abilities that can be useful in fight or social encounters, as well as many great versatile spells (sleep, phantasmal force, plant growth, greater invisibility, dominate person).

Note that I'm not familiar with UA options, so maybe there would be another Patron fitting as well or better. ;)

Also...

Thanks again all. Still need some help if possible.....

Callen, that is a good idea and what I was thinking too. Think I'll be going this route.

Now I need a bit more help. I'm joining a group that is at lvl 4 and don't know how I should set the lvls. I was thinking of starting 3-1 fighter-warlock. But I'm worried that I'm gimp in myself too much by not getting at least to 4 for the Ability Score Improvements (Which I think I'll take for a +2 Constitution since it's only at 12). Let alone the fact I'll be delaying extra attack at 5th fighter lvl.

I could really use help now at figuring out the lvl ratio for lvl 4 using the build Callen described above.

Build so far with rolled stats and racial bonus:
Final Plan- Dragonborn Fighter 12 (Battlemaster) Warlock 8 (Fiend/Tome)
Polearm, Great Weapon Master, Eldritch Blast, Utility spells
Strength 18 (rolled 16)
Charisma 16 (rolled 15)
Constitution 12
Dex 11
Wisdom 10
INT 7

TL;DR
Please help figure out the what the fighter/warlock ratio should be starting at lvl 4. I'd love to go 3/1 fighter but worried I need that +2 Con from ability score improvement at fighter 4 or even the extra attack at lvl 5.
Frankly, you could do very well forego all the Extra Attack if you took Eldricht Knight with Warcaster.
But even with your current build you could very well wait quite a bit for Extra Attack.
After all, you want to bump CON first, and you are not a Variant Human, so you won't care about taking Polearm Master before a long time. Meanwhile, you get a character level dependant weapon cantrip.

So I would rather suggest you start Fighter 1 / Warlock 3 (so you get Mirror Image) or Fighter 3 / Warlock 1 (so you get Manoeuvers). In any case, you will have great AC (heavy armor) and GFB/BB to attack with heavy weapon. That is really all you will need for some time.

By the way, don't pay attention to people saying "too much Warlock". Warlock up to 7 (4th level slots), 8th (ASI) or 9th (5th level) is great. Your choice of 12/8 split is perfectly reasonable since next manoeuver would be at 15th on Fighter side, next slot would be on 11th on Warlock side, but since you are more a Fighter you want your 3rd attack so it won't happen either way...


Definitely Tome for pact. Those extra cantrips from any class are going to provide all the utility you're looking for and then some.

Patron wise, I actually like the Great Old One. Telepathic communication, and once per rest disadvantage both help the battlemaster, and telepathic communication fits the battlemaster thematically as a battlefield leader/tactician.
This is a good point. ;) Your Patron should reflect your "way of life" first and what spell you intend to use most in the end.
Archfey is great if you like the idea of being an invisible deathbringer.
GOO is great if you want to be the tactician/scout. ;)

[Saggo]

TL;DR
Please help figure out the what the fighter/warlock ratio should be starting at lvl 4. I'd love to go 3/1 fighter but worried I need that +2 Con from ability score improvement at fighter 4 or even the extra attack at lvl 5.

Fighter 3/Warlock 2 can mitigate some of these concerns, if you wish to obtain the caster levels earlier which lets you fit your character image sooner.

You're in that sweet spot where False Life is relatively useful. With a +2 Con at this level, you get 4 HP which False Life can easily cover. So you don't need +2 Con until a few levels later when it starts to match and then beat a maxed False Life.

If you take one of or both Booming/Greenflame Blade, you'll get the 1d8 damage boost at character level 5. Then you can go Fighter 4/Warlock 2 for ASI/Feat, followed by 5/2 for Extra Attack.

I would personally play Chain and use them for advantage shenanigans with GWM. Tome could give you Owl, but Chain can be invisible and is more durable/versatile. Either works ultimately.

[Nataris]

Callin and Saggo,

This is for you 2 since you both seem to be down the same path I'm thinking, but anyone can chim in here.

A fellow team member is telling me he is worried that going down the path might gimp me to the point I don't have as much fun.

What is the best way to keep high damage through out the build as planned and will it be stronger enough that I can at least make good contributions in combat?

I'd like to keep fighter 12 / Lock 8 Polearm, Great Weapon Fighting, Eldritch Blast and Fiend/Tomb.

Can I make a viable build with that? Thanks so much for the help guys. I hope you can help with this final question.

[Callin]

The build is fine for damage. Lets go with lvl 10 a 6/4 Split.

You have 2 Normal Attacks and a Bonus Action Attack. Round 1 Cast Hex (or move if already concentrating) and use your Attack Action to Attack twice. So thats 1d10+4+1d6 each attack. Round 2 is the same but you add in your Bonus Action Attack from PAM. So now its 1d10+4+1d6, 1d10+4+1d6, 1d4+1d6. Thats not shabby Damage. You can Add 1d8 to damage with BM Maneuvers. If Warcaster does not work like was mentioned earlier (as it seems it does not due to Booming Blade being 5ft Range.. damnit) then switch it to Great Weapon Master. Use your Owl to give Advantage to offset that -5 Penalty on the First Attack and you are doing 1d10+14+1d6 on that Attack.

The Damage is fine. My game math is never correct but just going off of Half damage its- 12+12+5= 29 Damage or with GWM 22+12+5= 39. Thats just the half damage. Crits will increase that by a good bit and using a Maneuver will increase it by 4. And Action Surge to do another 24. Thats a possible 67 Damage if everything connects and you use a Maneuver.

In Comparison to a Rogue at lvl 10 using a Rapier- 1d8+4+5d6= 23 or a Rogue using Booming Blade 1d8+4+5d6+3d8= 35
Heck a lvl 10 BM Fighter with everything you got is doing- 1d10+14, 1d10+4, 1d4 = 30. So you outpace that. With Action Surge its 52 and using a Maneuver.

I am willing to be wrong if someone corrects me.

[Nataris]

My mistake, my group mate and I had a misunderstanding of the build. Which was my fault. So no question on the damage.

Everything sounded good but you lost me with the owl, booming blade etc. Can you clarify what the needed skills, spells or feats that you recommend? I know Hex, Polearm Master, Warcaster, Great weapon fighting. Anything else necessary or recommended?

Thanks a lot everyone, you have been a great help to a new player.

[Callin]

Ok ignore the Warcaster and Booming Blade. Since its got a range of 5ft it wont work the way I wanted it to. Change to Great Weapon Master.

You get rituals as a tome lock. Find familiar and get an owl. Have it use the help action to give the next attack against that target advantage. Everything else is pretty much up to you. Background and skills are just the way you want to play.

[Nataris]

Perfect thanks!

[bid]

You can Add 1d8 to damage with BM Maneuvers.
If you have GWM, you want to reserve your SD for precision attack and turn near misses into hits. Or riposte when they attack you. Both will do roughly 3 times better than the other maneuvers if you don't care about the non-damage effects.

Other than that, you got it mostly right.

[djreynolds]

I know you want fighter, but this screams paladin.

Here are some ideas,

1 level of sorcerer and you can grab the shield spell... huge defensive boost

2 levels of bard, jack of all trades... more spells

[Saggo]

You can use Spell Sniper to make Booming Blade 10 ft. which will work with PAM+War Caster. But now you're 3 feats in, so it's rather niche. Can be fun though.

Damage is fine. You really should include accuracy since GWM affect to it, but it ultimately doesn't matter. Both Warlock and Battlemaster do just fine with a PAM+GWM build. I'll toss in a link to Kryx when I'm not on my phone.

A Battlemaster/Warlock combo in the particular ratio you're considering will lose the 4th attack and delay the 3rd from Fighter and lose Lifedrinker and Foresight from Warlock. In return, you gain more sources of advantage combined than either class alone. Use that to your advantage, some pun intended.

In particular, prioritize Trip Attack or Precision (usually on targets you can't trip) from Battlemaster and an Owl/Chain familiar or Darkness+Eldritch Sight from Warlock. When you Trip, use Hex or Armor of Agathys. When you use Darkness, use Precision or just save the Superiority Dice. Any time you get that advantage, use GWM.

You'd get more mileage out of Battlemaster 3/Bladelock 17. It's kind of bog standard, but better spellcasting with more optimal DPR, same playstyle. The middle split (plus or minus) you're considering still hits the necessary highlights to work and contribute to the party fine. The drawback will be dealing with fewer spell slots available, only 2 slots, relying on Superiority Dice to pick up the slack.

I'd follow a path something like:
Fighter 1 (Con Save, Weapon, Armor)
Warlock 3 (Tome/Chain, Invocations, Booming/Greenflame)
Fighter 5 (Feat, Extra Attack)
Warlock 9 (Feat, 5th level slots)
Fighter 11 (Capstone is 3rd attack)

[djreynolds]

I think Saggo is correct, you will just get more mileage out of less fighter in this build. Your SD dice, for you, are to make sure you land GWM. The extra damage from the maneuvers is incidental, IMHO.

I like the build, it is viable and hex coupled with PAM is huge, lots of damage potential there. And oodles of utility.

See how it goes.

[Citan]

You can use Spell Sniper to make Booming Blade 10 ft. which will work with PAM+War Caster. But now you're 3 feats in, so it's rather niche. Can be fun though.

Damage is fine. You really should include accuracy since GWM affect to it, but it ultimately doesn't matter. Both Warlock and Battlemaster do just fine with a PAM+GWM build. I'll toss in a link to Kryx when I'm not on my phone.

A Battlemaster/Warlock combo in the particular ratio you're considering will lose the 4th attack and delay the 3rd from Fighter and lose Lifedrinker and Foresight from Warlock. In return, you gain more sources of advantage combined than either class alone. Use that to your advantage, some pun intended.

In particular, prioritize Trip Attack or Precision (usually on targets you can't trip) from Battlemaster and an Owl/Chain familiar or Darkness+Eldritch Sight from Warlock. When you Trip, use Hex or Armor of Agathys. When you use Darkness, use Precision or just save the Superiority Dice. Any time you get that advantage, use GWM.

You'd get more mileage out of Battlemaster 3/Bladelock 17. It's kind of bog standard, but better spellcasting with more optimal DPR, same playstyle. The middle split (plus or minus) you're considering still hits the necessary highlights to work and contribute to the party fine. The drawback will be dealing with fewer spell slots available, only 2 slots, relying on Superiority Dice to pick up the slack.

I'd follow a path something like:
Fighter 1 (Con Save, Weapon, Armor)
Warlock 3 (Tome/Chain, Invocations, Booming/Greenflame)
Fighter 5 (Feat, Extra Attack)
Warlock 9 (Feat, 5th level slots)
Fighter 11 (Capstone is 3rd attack)
That is also another good way to go at it.

It all depends on how you envision your character.
A melee wielder that just uses magic to enchance his attacks? Then your first build is great: use Tome and Rituals for utility, keeping your 2 short-rest slots for buffs (Armor of Agathys > Mirror Image > Greater Invisibility). Get 4 attacks per turn with 3 Attack + Polearm/GWM bonus action.

A Warlock with some martial background that makes him especially good at hitting?
Then Battlemaster 3 will be enough, because you will mainly want to use Precision/Trip on your cantrips. You have no obligation to take Blade either and go Polearm. Instead, pick just Warcaster and GWM to get more mileage from Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade. You will spread out your manoeuvers on more turns, but you get much more spellcasting. If you really want the Extra Attack, better go Battlemaster 5 imo. You lose 9th level spell in the end, but you can keep Tome Pact with many rituals. Matter of taste though.

Both are equally viable and fun anyways. ;)

[Saggo]

Then Battlemaster 3 will be enough, because you will mainly want to use Precision/Trip on your cantrips. You have no obligation to take Blade either and go Polearm. Instead, pick just Warcaster and GWM to get more mileage from Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade. You will spread out your manoeuvers on more turns, but you get much more spellcasting. If you really want the Extra Attack, better go Battlemaster 5 imo. You lose 9th level spell in the end, but you can keep Tome Pact with many rituals. Matter of taste though.

Both are equally viable and fun anyways. ;)

Going on a sidebar here (ignoring character image somewhat), Trip is better used with PAM, GWM, and Extra Attack (either Fighter 5 or Blade). You could Trip with BB/GFB, but the target will likely stand up before your next attack. You personally won't really benefit from the advantage. With a cantrip, you'll get the most mileage out of Precision.

But with PAM+GWM+Extra Attack, 1 attack to Trip and 2 attacks with advantage during the same turn. +20 with advantage will easily outstrip a BB/GFB unless you guarantee some rider damage. We can fiddle with napkin math if you'd like, but it's about when your cantrip adds average 4d8 (for example, 2d8 on main attack and a 66% assumed chance a 3d8 rider triggers) with Precision that you're matching the Trip+PAM+GWM combo.

But Trip is a team player, benefits a party composition that's heavy melee, light ranged, so you should Trip if you can. Which means, if considering optimal damage, you should use the PAM, GWM, Extra Attack combo.

The real answer is to have Trip, Precision, PAM, GWM, Extra Attack, BB, and GFB and use whatever is best at the time.

The real real answer is that a Trip+BB/GFB, a Precision+BB/GFB, a Trip+PAM+GWM, and a Precision+GWM all work in practice.