Tiefling vow of nonviolence paladin

[Jack_McSnatch]

I was challenged to play a paladin who hates violence. Set in Eberron, if that makes any difference. I'm looking more for fluff suggestions than crunch, but I would be open to builds.

So far what I have is she's a diabolic tiefling, horns, hooves, the whole shebang. Ashamed of her heritage, she sought refuge in a temple. She hated the cruelty and violence inflicted on her because of what she was. Blah blah blah, I think this is literally the story of every tiefling ever.

I don't know Eberron... Like at all. I'd like to spin something more linked to the world. I've been thinking about making a redeemed villain thing, but I don't know the major players. She has vows of nonviolence and poverty, the flaws noncombatant and shaky (to represent her dislike of violence), which doesn't apply to undead, which she hates, and seeks to eradicate. Later fiends will be added to that list.

Build wise she's a ranger/paladin with the aformentioned vows. I think I can handle both, and I was considering taking vow of peace and go Apostle of peace, buuut... The restrictions of peace seem to weigh less on me, and more on my party. I like the 9th level spells, but I don't like being relagated to healbot. Is there a better fitting prestige class?

Paladin 2/Ranger 2 no acfs
1st: sacred vow
Flaw: vow of poverty
Flaw: subduing strike
1st exalted: nemisis
2nd exalted: animal friend
3rd: devoted tracker
3rd exalted: holy subdual
Ranger style: twf
Dm bonus: haft strike

[Pugwampy]

I dont think a paladin can be non violent . This is not a passive class . These folk are the sword and shield of the church . If they preach to an evil monster instead of hacking it to pieces they risk becoming fallen . They have spidersense to home in on the cancer to cut it out .

Why would a non violent paladin know all martial weapons and armour types. A tower shield fighter is less violent than a paladin .

Clerics are ambassadors of their gods and monks just want to attain bodily perfection . I could accept clerics and monks being non violent.

[weckar]

A vow of nonviolence paladin would likely turn to such a vow as a form of attonement. Maybe their aggressive ways have led to greater than required losses?

[Sayt]

It'd probably be worth loking into the 'A-Game' Paladin, picking up the spirits from dungeonscape and/or the From Smite To Song feat.

[CozJa]

I was challenged to play a paladin who hates violence. Set in Eberron, if that makes any difference. I'm looking more for fluff suggestions than crunch, but I would be open to builds.

So far what I have is she's a diabolic tiefling, horns, hooves, the whole shebang. Ashamed of her heritage, she sought refuge in a temple. She hated the cruelty and violence inflicted on her because of what she was. Blah blah blah, I think this is literally the story of every tiefling ever.

I don't know Eberron... Like at all. I'd like to spin something more linked to the world. I've been thinking about making a redeemed villain thing, but I don't know the major players. She has vows of nonviolence and poverty, the flaws noncombatant and shaky (to represent her dislike of violence), which doesn't apply to undead, which she hates, and seeks to eradicate. Later fiends will be added to that list.

Well... as for fluff, basically tieflings have not that much support in Eberron. They may be easily found in Drooam (the monster nation) and the Demon Wastes (I suppose the name suggests something) but it's quite improbable that they would be persecuted or attacked, just because they are not well known. (for example, Eberron great cities are used to have Minotaurs and Medusas and all other monsters going around as mercenaries). That clearly doesn't mean you cannot just make YOUR tiefling a persecuted and redeemed villain!

If you are not dead set on tiefling as a base race, I'd suggest you take a look at Daelkyr Half-Blood (basically they are human babies corrupted by the power of the plane of madness while still in the womb and born as half-monsters; notice that their type is aberration). They are definitely persecuted and feared in Eberron and, most of all, they have access to a personal symbiont, which I'm pretty sure does not count against vow of Poverty. That means that, for example at level ten you could grow a tentacle whip and twf with it and another weapon of your choice; ok, it injects venom, but here's the catch: if you have enough Ranger levels (or druid levels) you can use the evergreen (pun intended) Venomfire spell modified with the Nonlethal Substitution Feat to have it attack on its own, while doing 1d6/caster level nonlethal damage.



Build wise she's a ranger/paladin with the aformentioned vows. I think I can handle both, and I was considering taking vow of peace and go Apostle of peace, buuut... The restrictions of peace seem to weigh less on me, and more on my party. I like the 9th level spells, but I don't like being relagated to healbot. Is there a better fitting prestige class?

Paladin 2/Ranger 2 no acfs
1st: sacred vow
Flaw: vow of poverty
Flaw: subduing strike
1st exalted: nemisis
2nd exalted: animal friend
3rd: devoted tracker
3rd exalted: holy subdual
Ranger style: twf
Dm bonus: haft strike

Eh, in fact vow of peace is quite an hassle for your friends...
Well... it depends on what you have access to and what you'd like to do. Seeing that you are going with animal friend, Eberron gives a interesting list of feats and prestige classess for druids and rangers. Basically there are some sects of druids that are costantly studying to prepare themselves against an extraplanar attack from aberrations, they work somewhat like churches but I don't know if they can appeal to you. Alternatively there's the Church of the Silver Flame that is the resident Holy church complete with zealot fanatics and resident good guys, your character may have both enemies and friends in it. (And the fluff says that the Silver Flame, which is an holy collective entity of the past heroes gives power to everyone, but was created to bound a demon within itself, therefore your charcter may be tied to it in some way). If you are not interested in spells the Justiciar prestige class let you do subual damage and add some roguish sneak attack on it (but I'm sure there's a feat that does exactly the same).

no more ideas for now :smallconfused: at least until I don't know what material you can access and what level of madness can your group/DM bear? Because I may have an interesting build in mind...

P.S. if she hates undeads you should definitely look into Karrnath nation fluff and the Blood of Vol religion. They both revolve around a heavy use of undeads.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I dont think a paladin can be non violent . This is not a passive class . These folk are the sword and shield of the church . If they preach to an evil monster instead of hacking it to pieces they risk becoming fallen . They have spidersense to home in on the cancer to cut it out .

Why would a non violent paladin know all martial weapons and armour types. A tower shield fighter is less violent than a paladin .

Clerics are ambassadors of their gods and monks just want to attain bodily perfection . I could accept clerics and monks being non violent.

VoNV only restricts you from killing humanoids and monstrous humanoids. You can still murder the face off of abberations, animals, constructs, dragons, elementals, fey, giants (oversight?), magical beasts, oozes, outsiders, plants, undead, and vermin. Even vow of peace characters can still stand firm against undead and constructs with full, lethal damage.

[Jack_McSnatch]

I dont think a paladin can be non violent . This is not a passive class . These folk are the sword and shield of the church . If they preach to an evil monster instead of hacking it to pieces they risk becoming fallen . They have spidersense to home in on the cancer to cut it out .

Why would a non violent paladin know all martial weapons and armour types. A tower shield fighter is less violent than a paladin .

Clerics are ambassadors of their gods and monks just want to attain bodily perfection . I could accept clerics and monks being non violent. I answered this question in game. "Violence Is abhorent, but it is sometimes the only recourse. When that time comes, I will steel myself, and do what I must."


A vow of nonviolence paladin would likely turn to such a vow as a form of attonement. Maybe their aggressive ways have led to greater than required losses? I think I'm gonna use this, thank you.


Well... as for fluff, basically tieflings have not that much support in Eberron. They may be easily found in Drooam (the monster nation) and the Demon Wastes (I suppose the name suggests something) but it's quite improbable that they would be persecuted or attacked, just because they are not well known. (for example, Eberron great cities are used to have Minotaurs and Medusas and all other monsters going around as mercenaries). That clearly doesn't mean you cannot just make YOUR tiefling a persecuted and redeemed villain!

If you are not dead set on tiefling as a base race, I'd suggest you take a look at Daelkyr Half-Blood (basically they are human babies corrupted by the power of the plane of madness while still in the womb and born as half-monsters; notice that their type is aberration). They are definitely persecuted and feared in Eberron and, most of all, they have access to a personal symbiont, which I'm pretty sure does not count against vow of Poverty. That means that, for example at level ten you could grow a tentacle whip and twf with it and another weapon of your choice; ok, it injects venom, but here's the catch: if you have enough Ranger levels (or druid levels) you can use the evergreen (pun intended) Venomfire spell modified with the Nonlethal Substitution Feat to have it attack on its own, while doing 1d6/caster level nonlethal damage.



Eh, in fact vow of peace is quite an hassle for your friends...
Well... it depends on what you have access to and what you'd like to do. Seeing that you are going with animal friend, Eberron gives a interesting list of feats and prestige classess for druids and rangers. Basically there are some sects of druids that are costantly studying to prepare themselves against an extraplanar attack from aberrations, they work somewhat like churches but I don't know if they can appeal to you. Alternatively there's the Church of the Silver Flame that is the resident Holy church complete with zealot fanatics and resident good guys, your character may have both enemies and friends in it. (And the fluff says that the Silver Flame, which is an holy collective entity of the past heroes gives power to everyone, but was created to bound a demon within itself, therefore your charcter may be tied to it in some way). If you are not interested in spells the Justiciar prestige class let you do subual damage and add some roguish sneak attack on it (but I'm sure there's a feat that does exactly the same).

no more ideas for now :smallconfused: at least until I don't know what material you can access and what level of madness can your group/DM bear? Because I may have an interesting build in mind...

P.S. if she hates undeads you should definitely look into Karrnath nation fluff and the Blood of Vol religion. They both revolve around a heavy use of undeads.
Well, we already started. First session on the same day we made them. The DM is absolutely fine with just about everything. He's even allowing some homebrew stuff from d&d wiki, and let me use lesser tiefling from players guide to faerun. I'd like to stick to published material though. Where can I find half-Daelkyr and more fluff on the silver flame? They seem a bit zealous for a pacifist paladin, but that in itself could make a good story.

[Zanos]

VoNV only restricts you from killing humanoids and monstrous humanoids. You can still murder the face off of abberations, animals, constructs, dragons, elementals, fey, giants (oversight?), magical beasts, oozes, outsiders, plants, undead, and vermin. Even vow of peace characters can still stand firm against undead and constructs with full, lethal damage.
Isn't there a feat somewhere that just removes the penalty for hitting for nonlethal damage anyway? You'll still have to contend will enemy healing being more effective unless everyone is doing nonlethal though.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Isn't there a feat somewhere that just removes the penalty for hitting for nonlethal damage anyway?

Same book, actually.


You'll still have to contend will enemy healing being more effective unless everyone is doing nonlethal though.

That -is- a potential issue but it's fairly minor compared to having to deal with live enemies after combat is over.

Your non-lethal damage greatly increases the window for rendering the enemy unconcious without killing them outright and your vow prevents you and your allies from delivering the coup-de-grace to them. You find yourself in the position of either binding them (often impractical) or waiting for them to awaken and extracting a vow of non-interference that they can break (bright-side, your buddies can kill away now). In either case, the odds of having to fight the same foes mutiple times on the same outing become non-zero where they were zero before the vow.

Compared to that, cure X being doubly effective on those enemies isn't really a huge problem (not that it was to begin with, in-combat healling being what it is.)

[daremetoidareyo]

This may be helpful: Lasso (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?507609-Optimize-this-weapon-1-Lasso-from-BOED-p34)

[Zanos]

That -is- a potential issue but it's fairly minor compared to having to deal with live enemies after combat is over.

Your non-lethal damage greatly increases the window for rendering the enemy unconcious without killing them outright and your vow prevents you and your allies from delivering the coup-de-grace to them. You find yourself in the position of either binding them (often impractical) or waiting for them to awaken and extracting a vow of non-interference that they can break (bright-side, your buddies can kill away now). In either case, the odds of having to fight the same foes mutiple times on the same outing become non-zero where they were zero before the vow.

Compared to that, cure X being doubly effective on those enemies isn't really a huge problem (not that it was to begin with, in-combat healling being what it is.)
"Healing in combat isn't good" isn't the same thing as "healing in combat doesn't happen", and most groups in my experience don't spend much of their time taking tactical advice from forums such as this. Doubling healing efficiency can be a serious concern in some groups.

But yeah, dealing with a chain of prisoners as long as your adventure is pretty painful.

[Afgncaap5]

I was about to recommend an Aberrant Dragonmark since Aberrant marks are certainly feared and persecuted... but then I remembered you have to be a race that can typically take a dragonmark.

[CozJa]

Well, we already started. First session on the same day we made them. The DM is absolutely fine with just about everything. He's even allowing some homebrew stuff from d&d wiki, and let me use lesser tiefling from players guide to faerun. I'd like to stick to published material though. Where can I find half-Daelkyr and more fluff on the silver flame? They seem a bit zealous for a pacifist paladin, but that in itself could make a good story.

Ok, then Daelkyr half-bloods are definitely out of question. They are in Magic of Eberron!

as for the Church of the Silver Flame, there you are (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20041115a)!

But since you are a Paladin Ranger, you are more interested in being Paladin or Ranger?

[Jack_McSnatch]

Ok, then Daelkyr half-bloods are definitely out of question. They are in Magic of Eberron!

as for the Church of the Silver Flame, there you are (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20041115a)!

But since you are a Paladin Ranger, you are more interested in being Paladin or Ranger?

I was thinking more paladin, with a bit of ranger thrown in for wilderness stuff and possibly evasion. 5 levels ranger for sure.