What is a variable number?

[SangoProduction]

Let's say you have a spell that does XdY + Z in damage. Then, you empower it. "All variable numeric effects are increased by 1/2."

So, [XdY + Z] is a variable that ranges from from Z to X*Y. But, I've heard arguments saying that the static component of the variable is not variable, so therefore, only XdY would be multiplied by 1.5. But wouldn't that same argument go for X not being variable, and thus wouldn't apply there either? Nor is Y for that matter.

So, are there rules laid out that actually clarifies this, or is this just a circular argument, with no RAW answer?

[Hurnn]

Let's say you have a spell that does XdY + Z in damage. Then, you empower it. "All variable numeric effects are increased by 1/2."

So, [XdY + Z] is a variable that ranges from from Z to X*Y. But, I've heard arguments saying that the static component of the variable is not variable, so therefore, only XdY would be multiplied by 1.5. But wouldn't that same argument go for X not being variable, and thus wouldn't apply there either? Nor is Y for that matter.

So, are there rules laid out that actually clarifies this, or is this just a circular argument, with no RAW answer?


A variable number is just that. Empowered spell would be (XdY*1.5)+Z

[weckar]

The argument is that the TOTAL of the sum is a variable number, which it is. In game terms, however, it references strictly to the VARIABLES that need to be inserted into this stum, rather than the constants. So: Dice Rolls, caster levels...

[CasualViking]

In PF, the "variable number" absolutely, unambiguously and officially includes the added static bonus. That is, empowered is (xd6+x)*1.5. That is, the result of the damage roll is the variable number. A flat +4 bonus with no added die roll is not variable.

[ryu]

A variable number is just that. Empowered spell would be (XdY*1.5)+Z

In other words Z isn't a variable. It's a definite number based upon your current stats with a letter label and clear direction on what it's to be replaced with. More akin to linguistic shorthand than anything else.

Contrast this with dice related numbers which are actually variant numbers you don't know before actually casting the spell.

[Deophaun]

Here's the PHB's entry for Empower Spell:

For example, an empowered magic missile deals 1-1/2 times its normal damage (roll 1d4+1 and multiply the result by 1-1/2 for each missile).
This is because you get an extra missile every two additional caster levels, making magic missile essentially deal xd4+x, and here the feat is saying it's (xd4+x)*1.5, not (xd4)*1.5+x.

In other words Z isn't a variable.
And algebra teachers everywhere cried.

Edit:
Let's look at the text of the feat in the SRD:

All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by one-half.

Saving throws and opposed rolls are not affected, nor are spells without random variables. An empowered spell uses up a spell slot two levels higher than the spell’s actual level.
Note the bolded portions. If a spell has a random variable, then all variable, numeric effects are increased by one-half, not just the random ones.

[Krazzman]

Let's say you have a spell that does XdY + Z in damage. Then, you empower it. "All variable numeric effects are increased by 1/2."

So, [XdY + Z] is a variable that ranges from from Z to X*Y. But, I've heard arguments saying that the static component of the variable is not variable, so therefore, only XdY would be multiplied by 1.5. But wouldn't that same argument go for X not being variable, and thus wouldn't apply there either? Nor is Y for that matter.

So, are there rules laid out that actually clarifies this, or is this just a circular argument, with no RAW answer?

Not quite. The range of XdY+Z is Z+X to Z+X×Y.

From what I remember our groups always did it like the cost calculation of a business where the production costs 8x but the fix cost of this production costs 20000 then empowered it would be 12x+20000.
Magic missile is a corner case in this since those fixed damage are variable in nature too.

Quick and dirty you would be right just to adjust the XdY. But I believe PF made it easier and just said roll damage then multiply by 1.5.

[lord_khaine]

This is because you get an extra missile every two additional caster levels, making magic missile essentially deal xd4+x, and here the feat is saying it's (xd4+x)*1.5, not (xd4)*1.5+x.

And that covers the question. Kinda smart of wizards to pick MM as their example. It ensures that the question about static bonuses are already answered.

[SangoProduction]

And that covers the question. Kinda smart of wizards to pick MM as their example. It ensures that the question about static bonuses are already answered.

Yup. I used the incomplete online reference lol. Yeah. Well, at least now we know for certain and have a solid, unambiguous RAW answer to this question. Isn't that's odd?

Not quite. The range of XdY+Z is Z+X to Z+X×Y.

oops, yeah. minor mistake. was rushing. lol. Not sure whY.

[Necroticplague]

Let's say you have a spell that does XdY + Z in damage. Then, you empower it. "All variable numeric effects are increased by 1/2."

So, [XdY + Z] is a variable that ranges from from Z to X*Y. But, I've heard arguments saying that the static component of the variable is not variable, so therefore, only XdY would be multiplied by 1.5. But wouldn't that same argument go for X not being variable, and thus wouldn't apply there either? Nor is Y for that matter.

So, are there rules laid out that actually clarifies this, or is this just a circular argument, with no RAW answer?

Neither X, nor Y, nor Z are, themselves, random variables. However, the result of using them, is. All of them are merely components. Z is every bit as much of a component as X or Y. So they're all included as part of the random variable.

Side note, though I'll probably be ninjad, the range is actually Z+X to Z+X*Y (since the minimum you can roll on XdY is X, added to Z, and Z is added to the the max still. )

[Zombimode]

Yup. I used the incomplete online reference lol. Yeah. Well, at least now we know for certain and have a solid, unambiguous RAW answer to this question. Isn't that's odd?

Eh, this is GitP Forum. Just wait for some RAW-Warrior guy chiming in and claiming that the example is not rules and thus can (and should!) be ignored.

[weckar]

And that covers the question. Kinda smart of wizards to pick MM as their example. It ensures that the question about static bonuses are already answered. Except the +1 in this case is not a 'static' number. It varies by caster level, after all.

[lord_khaine]

Except the +1 in this case is not a 'static' number. It varies by caster level, after all.

No.. its not.. a level 1 apprentice and a level 30 archmage both gets 1d4+1 damage from a magic missile. I dont know what spell you are refering to. But its not the one from the SRD.