How to knock my player unconscious for a doppelganger swap?

[KittenEV]

So I need a fair way (within the rules basically) of knocking one of my players unconscious while he is away from the party so that I can swap him out with a doppelganger. The player is aware he'll be playing a doppelganger, acting as part of the group, until such time as the party finds his player's kidnapped body in its lair wherein he'll act the party.

But I don't know how to make it where the other players don't suspect he's switched out. They already know there is a doppelganger lurking in the city (they're smart little buggers lol) so they are kind of jumpy. If I suddenly ask the party member I want to switch out to make a saving throw (for like a sleep dart) and then say he falls unconcious, they'll know something is up. Also, what if he makes his save? The only DC I could find on it is 11 and that's real low. Any ideas?

I'm not really a fan of the DM says you fall unconscious so you fall unconscious without any sort of reaction. It's kind of unfair. :/

[Baldin]

Just ask all players to roll 4 d20's and give the result to you. Write the result down for each player. When one of them is seperated from the party for any reason (and you Doppelganger knows this) have the Doppelganger strike. Do the following all in secred. Use the first d20 (including his bonuses) score to determine the players perception vs the Doppelgangers stealth roll. If the doppelganger wins this roll, he can aproach unseen. Now choose how to take him out. Depending on level this could be by an attack, spell or other effect. If the PC is faily low level just throw a sleep spell in, if you are unable to have you Doppelganger use Sleep, look if his damage output from a suprise attack could knock the player out (if so do that) or use a poison.
If poison is used (Drow poison(injury), Essence of Ether(inhaled), Oil of Taggit(contact) all couse the target to go unconscious) use the second d20 result.

This way you can play out the encounter without needing to give anything away. If for any reason the player isn't knocked unconscious/asleep before seeing the Doppelganger (by making his perception or saving throws) use his third roll to determine his initiative. If the Doppelganger wins again the Doppelganger is able to use one more round of actions before the player can react. If by this point the player is still up and fighting narrate what happened and tell the players what happened. Let them react to the foiled attempt.

If your Doppelganger succeeds, just don't say anything to the party until you session has come to an end and inform the player who has been swapped what happened and tell him how you played out the encounter. Good thing about this way of going at it is that you use the score the player rolled, no fake rolls or forced play. Explain him to be himself and not let anything know to the party.

Cheers
Baldin

[MrFahrenheit]

^This. And have the player play his own doppelgänger for added fun!

[hymer]

So I need a fair way (within the rules basically) of knocking one of my players unconscious

In movies and other media, you often see the tap on the head (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TapOnTheHead), but it's important to point out that in reality, whacking someone on the head to the point that they lose consciousness is actually causing brain damage. So this is to be avoided, particularly in a friendly game, even if the recipient of the tap is in on it.
In your place, I'd definitely call in an anaesthesiologist for a consult. There are some highly effective gas-based solutions, which work incredibly quickly, and have very low risks of imparting problems. Still, the exact mixture is not something I'd try to eyeball on the spot if I could avoid it, as it depends on so many factors. So call in the specialist. You also want to be sure that the anaesthesia is light enough that the player can recover to play the doppelganger. In fact, maybe you should just knock out the PC rather than the player. Practically, financially and legally, this is just a lot less complicated.

[Contrast]

The player is aware he'll be playing a doppelganger, acting as part of the group, until such time as the party finds his player's kidnapped body in its lair wherein he'll act the party.

So the player is aware and on board? In that case I'm not sure you need any justification. The player goes off to do something on his own and returns dopplerified. Let your player come up with the explanation for how it happened, it doesn't really matter if both you and the player are happy to play it out that way for the story.

If you want to leave it up to chance and don't want to simply invent higher DC knockout drops or whatever, just have the doppler (or additional dopplers/allies if neccessary) ambush the PC in a darkened alleyway and choose to knock him unconscious rather than kill him if they win.

[MrFahrenheit]

In movies and other media, you often see the tap on the head (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TapOnTheHead), but it's important to point out that in reality, whacking someone on the head to the point that they lose consciousness is actually causing brain damage. So this is to be avoided, particularly in a friendly game, even if the recipient of the tap is in on it.
In your place, I'd definitely call in an anaesthesiologist for a consult. There are some highly effective gas-based solutions, which work incredibly quickly, and have very low risks of imparting problems. Still, the exact mixture is not something I'd try to eyeball on the spot if I could avoid it, as it depends on so many factors. So call in the specialist. You also want to be sure that the anaesthesia is light enough that the player can recover to play the doppelganger. In fact, maybe you should just knock out the PC rather than the player. Practically, financially and legally, this is just a lot less complicated.

Most MMA or boxing KOs, on the other hand, are usually from strikes to the jaw.

[MrStabby]

So the player is aware and on board? In that case I'm not sure you need any justification. The player goes off to do something on his own and returns dopplerified. Let your player come up with the explanation for how it happened, it doesn't really matter if both you and the player are happy to play it out that way for the story.

If you want to leave it up to chance and don't want to simply invent higher DC knockout drops or whatever, just have the doppler (or additional dopplers/allies if neccessary) ambush the PC in a darkened alleyway and choose to knock him unconscious rather than kill him if they win.

Pretty much this.

The need for a save/allowing player interactions and decisions is about not railroading players. Here the player has had a chance to determine their PCs destiny (albeit with discussions with the DM rather than in game). Being "fair" is no longer really so important to this aspect of the game.


If you do need a no save unconsciousness effect then the sleep spell might work.

[hymer]

Most MMA or boxing KOs, on the other hand, are usually from strikes to the jaw.

And you think that's not bad for the brain? :smallyuk:

[SaintRidley]

Stick the lucky feat on the doppelgänger, set one d20 to a natural 1 (you're the DM, totally within your purview to do that), and boom. There's your saving throw for the knockout.

No muss, no fuss.

[Contrast]

Stick the lucky feat on the doppelgänger, set one d20 to a natural 1 (you're the DM, totally within your purview to do that), and boom. There's your saving throw for the knockout.

No muss, no fuss.

You can't do that with the lucky feat. A diviner wizard however...

[hymer]

Stick the lucky feat on the doppelgänger, set one d20 to a natural 1 (you're the DM, totally within your purview to do that), and boom. There's your saving throw for the knockout.

Instead of going to all the trouble of assigning a feat to a monster, and then changing the mechanics of the feat to something like a class feature of a diviner, and then fiddling with the result of a virtual d20 roll for a saving throw on a character, whose player is in on it anyway... :smallbiggrin: How about just agreeing with the player that when you pull your ear, their PC has been taken over?

Edit: Too elaborate, got shadowmonk'ed

[SaintRidley]

You can't do that with the lucky feat. A diviner wizard however...

Egg on my face. I never use Lucky so I forgot that was a different thing entirely.

[Temperjoke]

If the rest of the party is aware of a doppelganger, they're going to be suspicious if anybody wanders off alone. But if something happens to the entire group, then they'll be suspicious of each other, as opposed to the individual member. That, or it needs to be a situation where it's normal that they'd be alone, like everyone had their own inn room. As for the means, you could try a red herring: a separate individual, not apparently connected to the doppelganger, drugs the entire party, allowing the doppelganger to switch in. The group is focused on this other individual, perhaps thinking that he's the doppelganger, ignoring the chance that the doppelganger is among them. This works easier if there are two doppelgangers working together.