Build Your Own Ranger from Wood Elf + Fighter + Rogue

[rooneg]

I want to play a ranger, but I hate that it's a caster class. It's for AL, so I can't use any of the various UA options that would let me build a non-caster ranger. The plan is for a Wood Elf Battlemaster Fighter/Assassin Rogue, lots of archery based battlefield control from the battlemaster maneuvers combined with rogue expertise and sneak attack damage.

Wood Elf plus Outlander background (with some background modification skill swaps) gets me some rangerish skills and abilities, so I can start off nice and sneaky.

I'm planning on starting as a Fighter, so I can get Battlemaster Maneuvers and Extra Attack ASAP. The ability scores start out at STR 8, DEX 17, CON 15, INT 10, WIS 14, CHA 10. Level 4 gets me Sharpshooter then at 5 I've got my Extra Attack. I'm pretty sure I want at least one more level of Fighter to get an ASI, bringing DEX to 18 and CON to 16.

From there on is pretty up in the air. I can either grab two more Fighter levels for another ASI, bringing DEX to 20, or I can start on Rogue levels. If I start Rogue here I probably want to take them up to at least Rogue 4 so I can get another ASI. This gets me Expertise (Perception and Stealth, probably), Sneak Attack, the initial Assassin stuff and then that ASI for a 20 DEX. I like the Rogue abilities, but I'm not sure they're worth delaying the road to that third attack at Fighter 11. On the other hand, if I wait till Fighter 11 before I start taking Rogue levels the actual Rogue abilities will seem pretty sub-par when I get them. Does anyone care about a 1d6 sneak attack at level 12? If I do start taking Rogue after my first 6 Fighter levels where should I stop and head back into Fighter? I eventually want at least 11 levels of Fighter for Extra Attack, but I'm not sure precisely where to stop the Rogue dip. The 9th level Rogue ability seems pretty lackluster for this character concept, but I also probably don't want a full 8 levels of Rogue right away. Do I stop at 4? Grab 5 for Uncanny Dodge? Rogue has lots of neat stuff in its first 8 levels, but how do they compare to the stuff from 6-11 of Fighter?

Also, once I've maxed out DEX and taken Sharpshooter what should I be doing with my ASIs? I don't want Crossbow Expert (I'd be taking it just for the melee ranged attacks, since the whole machine-gun crossbow thing just breaks verisimilitude for me), so beyond that what's good? So far my short list is Alert (for Assassin insanity), Lucky, Resilient WIS and maybe Observant (to finish off that next point of WIS after Resilient WIS brings it to 15) or Medium Armor Master (a little extra AC from Half Plate + Stealth still works).

Any thoughts?

[Specter]

I would delay extra attack to grab one level of Rogue. Expertise is what brings you closer to a ranger, and the 1d6 extra damage can really help. After you get extra attack, go rogue 3 for assassinate, and then fighter again. I say Rogue 12/Fighter 8 is as good as it gets so you can grab 7 ASI's and go crazy.

[JellyPooga]

Question: Do you want to be a Ranger or an Archer?

If you're looking at the latter, then go down the route you are; Fighter first, pick up a Rogue dip here and there.

If you really want to be a Ranger, though, I would recommend focusing more on Rogue. Expertise, Cunning Action and Sneak Attack, not to mention the Skill proficiencies available, make for a much more "Ranger-y" feel, IMO, than Fighter.

Rogue 4 (for the ASI), followed by Fighter 6 (for Extra Attack and the extra ASI) would make for a solid first 10 levels as a non-Ranger ranger build.

[rooneg]

I would delay extra attack to grab one level of Rogue. Expertise is what brings you closer to a ranger, and the 1d6 extra damage can really help. After you get extra attack, go rogue 3 for assassinate, and then fighter again. I say Rogue 12/Fighter 8 is as good as it gets so you can grab 7 ASI's and go crazy.

Hmm. If I'm taking an early level of Rogue to grab expertise would you recommend starting as a Rogue or a Fighter? I'm used to the answer always being Fighter, but that's usually for caster classes who care about concentration saves. Rogue first would get me more skills and DEX saves instead of CON saves.


Question: Do you want to be a Ranger or an Archer?

If you're looking at the latter, then go down the route you are; Fighter first, pick up a Rogue dip here and there.

If you really want to be a Ranger, though, I would recommend focusing more on Rogue. Expertise, Cunning Action and Sneak Attack, not to mention the Skill proficiencies available, make for a much more "Ranger-y" feel, IMO, than Fighter.

Rogue 4 (for the ASI), followed by Fighter 6 (for Extra Attack and the extra ASI) would make for a solid first 10 levels as a non-Ranger ranger build.

I'd envisioned playing the character mostly as an Archer, with enough skills and background abilities to provide some Ranger fluff. Then eventually taking levels of Rogue to increase the "sneaking around" aspect and improve damage with Sneak Attack (and since without Crossbow Expert + Hand Crossbow bonus action nonsense she'd have absolutely nothing to do with a bonus action). With that in mind, maybe I want 5 or 6 levels of Fighter early, maybe with a single level of Rogue thrown in to pick up expertise early on, then jump back to Rogue until 10.

Whatever I do will require 4 levels of one class in the first 5 levels, since that'll get me Sharpshooter by level 5, which is the first level that will actually get played (the rest is getting handled by DM rewards XP). I feel like Sharpshooter is just ridiculously important for damage potential, even more so than Sneak Attack.

[JellyPooga]

I feel like Sharpshooter is just ridiculously important for damage potential, even more so than Sneak Attack.

Be wary of this attitude. Sneak Attack is a straight damage buff, while the penalty Sharpshooter inflicts is a big one. Sharpshooter is worth nothing if that -5 makes you miss!

Given your preference for "Archer" over "Ranger" and the starting level 5, I'd go Rogue at 1st for the extra skill and Dex Save prof instead of Con (you'll have high Dex so I assume you're not going for Heavy Armour). Most of the Con save stuff is unlikely to be aimed at the archer at the back (those tend to target spellcasters and front-liners), whilst anyone might be caught by something that needs a Dex save. Then the other 4 levels, take Fighter, grabbing Sharpshooter (it is definitely worth it, if only to ignore cover). It gives you Extra Attack to look forward to next level and you're already dealing 1d8+1d6+10+Dex damage on a hit; that's a pretty solid output.

If there's a spellslinger in the party, encourage them to pick up Haste and use it liberally on you to get multiple Sneak Attacks in a round.

[rooneg]

Be wary of this attitude. Sneak Attack is a straight damage buff, while the penalty Sharpshooter inflicts is a big one. Sharpshooter is worth nothing if that -5 makes you miss!

Yeah, the existence of sneak attack damage really pushes the math around on Sharpshooter. With just a single d6 of sneak attack the "how low does the AC have to be to pay off" for this character goes from 20 to 18.


Given your preference for "Archer" over "Ranger" and the starting level 5, I'd go Rogue at 1st for the extra skill and Dex Save prof instead of Con (you'll have high Dex so I assume you're not going for Heavy Armour). Most of the Con save stuff is unlikely to be aimed at the archer at the back (those tend to target spellcasters and front-liners), whilst anyone might be caught by something that needs a Dex save. Then the other 4 levels, take Fighter, grabbing Sharpshooter (it is definitely worth it, if only to ignore cover). It gives you Extra Attack to look forward to next level and you're already dealing 1d8+1d6+10+Dex damage on a hit; that's a pretty solid output.

If there's a spellslinger in the party, encourage them to pick up Haste and use it liberally on you to get multiple Sneak Attacks in a round.

Yeah, that sounds like a reasonable plan. Fortunately, I'll likely only be playing her at level 5 once, after the one game she's scheduled for I'll pick up enough other DM rewards to jump right to level 6.

[Dalebert]

Yeah, the existence of sneak attack damage really pushes the math around on Sharpshooter. With just a single d6 of sneak attack the "how low does the AC have to be to pay off" for this character goes from 20 to 18.

Sounds like you did a lot of math. Did you make a chart or something?

[rooneg]

Sounds like you did a lot of math. Did you make a chart or something?

I'm just using the ever so helpful Great Weapon Mastery: How to -5/+10 Like a Pro (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?472938-Great-Weapon-Mastery-How-to-5-10-Like-a-Pro) thread's formula. Having other people do lots of math is even better than me doing lots of math!

MaxACToUseMinusFive = ToHitBonus - AverageDamage/2 + 16

Note that ToHitBonus and AverageDamage do not include the -5 or +10.

In my case at level 5 that means without Sneak Attack it's 8 - 7.5/2 + 16 = 20.25. With 1d6 Sneak Attack it's 8 - 11/2 + 16 = 18.5.

[rooneg]

I say Rogue 12/Fighter 8 is as good as it gets so you can grab 7 ASI's and go crazy.

Not that it's ever going to come up, since the vast majority of my games are tier 2, but what makes you value those extra 4 levels of Rogue more than the extra 4 levels of Fighter? Let's compare what we get:

Rogue: 2d6 more sneak attack dice, 2 ASIs, Infiltration Expertise (kind of useless for this character concept), Reliable Talent.

Fighter: Indominable, Improved Combat Superiority, 3rd attack, 1 ASI

I sort of feel like the fighter wins unless you're going to be triggering your Assassinate on like every combat, but maybe I'm underselling Reliable Talent?

[JellyPooga]

Not that it's ever going to come up, since the vast majority of my games are tier 2, but what makes you value those extra 4 levels of Rogue more than the extra 4 levels of Fighter? Let's compare what we get:

Rogue: 2d6 more sneak attack dice, 2 ASIs, Infiltration Expertise (kind of useless for this character concept), Reliable Talent.

Fighter: Indominable, Improved Combat Superiority, 3rd attack, 1 ASI

I sort of feel like the fighter wins unless you're going to be triggering your Assassinate on like every combat, but maybe I'm underselling Reliable Talent?

You're absolutely underselling Reliable Talent. Between that and Expertise, you can guarantee results from your skill checks. That extra ASI is precious precious too.

[djreynolds]

I think if you can reliably hide and gain advantage... that is going to be your shtick in battle.
Cunning action will play big, as will expertise in stealth.
Assassination and surprise rounds will be game/DM dependent.

But really it comes down to how much are you leaning on sharpshooter.

You will have to master hiding in order to gain advantage for reliable use of sharpshooter and those 3 attacks.

Where as reliable talent coupled with stealth may be a bigger boon to assure success.

It's a toss up, between 3 attacks and reliable talent.

It's why some ranger's spam pass without a trace instead oh hunter's mark, as it makes hiding and gain advantage easier to land sharpshooter.

A more heavy rogue build just needs a pal in melee to land his sneak attack.

[tieren]

But really it comes down to how much are you leaning on sharpshooter.

You will have to master hiding in order to gain advantage for reliable use of sharpshooter and those 3 attacks.



Not so, I played an archer in a party with other PC's. Some of them were front line fighters, and I always had the requisite for sneak attack by shooting anything that was within 5 feet of them. Sharpshooter was critical to every shot because it negated the partial cover of being in combat with my allies.

[djreynolds]

Not so, I played an archer in a party with other PC's. Some of them were front line fighters, and I always had the requisite for sneak attack by shooting anything that was within 5 feet of them. Sharpshooter was critical to every shot because it negated the partial cover of being in combat with my allies.

It's see that, but if you can shoot with advantage it's easier to mitigate the -5 of sharpshooter.

It's tough for a ranged attacker to gain advantage other than shooting from hiding.

My question is that 3rd attack worth it over more SA damage

It's real tough to hit with the -5 for sharpshooter every turn with 3 attacks without something like advantage, bless, in addition to archery style. It just is.

If you think about SA damage, the 6 levels from 5th to 11th level is worth 3d6 for 1 extra attack that could do +10 extra. They are about even or so.

I know the 3 attacks looks awesome and the potential for +45 damage from hitting every attack is there.

But SA damage only needs 1 shot.

I think 12-15 rogue/ 5-8 fighter is better for your concept.

Good luck to you

[Specter]

Not that it's ever going to come up, since the vast majority of my games are tier 2, but what makes you value those extra 4 levels of Rogue more than the extra 4 levels of Fighter? Let's compare what we get:

Rogue: 2d6 more sneak attack dice, 2 ASIs, Infiltration Expertise (kind of useless for this character concept), Reliable Talent.

Fighter: Indominable, Improved Combat Superiority, 3rd attack, 1 ASI

I sort of feel like the fighter wins unless you're going to be triggering your Assassinate on like every combat, but maybe I'm underselling Reliable Talent?

First of all, there's an extra ASI involved. That speaks volume for upping your CON mod, or if you've already gotten all feats you need, taking something like Alert or Skilled that any ranger can appreciate.

Then there's Reliable Talent; rangers are skillguys at heart, and never taking less than 10 on a survival or stealth check is amazing, and totally at (what could have been) the heart of the class!

An extra attack can be compensated by extra sneak attack. The level 10 fighter features aren't very impressive.

[Deleted]

Do note that partial cover is +2 AC and 3/4th cover is +5 AC. Also, allies and enemies give creatures partial cover to whoever is on the other side.

Not sure if your DM uses these rules but they are core rules.

This is why Archery style gives you the +2 Attack, to negate partial cover.

[djreynolds]

Just have fun, and see how good you are with cunning action and hiding.

That -5 to hit can really suck, but advantage will help. And since as an archer you really have no use for a bonus action... I literally shoot and then hide every turn.... so wild elf is great for mask of the wild.

It's a solid build any way you stack it.

I think you might actually toss in 3 levels of ranger hunter in there. Horde breaker is sweet.

[retaliation08]

I think you might actually toss in 3 levels of ranger hunter in there. Horde breaker is sweet.

3 levels of Ranger also gets you access to Hunters Mark. I would personally go for Colossus slayer to increase the damage of your subsequent non-sneak attacks.

[Albonor]

I think you might actually toss in 3 levels of ranger hunter in there. Horde breaker is sweet.

Wasn't the point NOT to use ranger levels?

[rooneg]

Do note that partial cover is +2 AC and 3/4th cover is +5 AC. Also, allies and enemies give creatures partial cover to whoever is on the other side.

Not sure if your DM uses these rules but they are core rules.

This is why Archery style gives you the +2 Attack, to negate partial cover.

Sure, but that's why I have the Sharpshooter feat, so I can ignore partial and 3/4 cover.


Wasn't the point NOT to use ranger levels?

Indeed. I have literally zero interest in playing a spellcaster ranger. If I want that I know where it is, the point of this build is to build an Archery themed pseudo-ranger with no spellcasting. I'm well aware that this isn't the optimal build (hell, if I wanted to be mechanically optimal I'd be planning on crossbow expert + sharpshooter + a hand crossbow and taking ranger levels for hunter's mark) and I don't care. I'm interested in the optimal choices for a Longbow based Archer within Battle Master Fighter and Rogue (most likely Assassin).

[Sicarius Victis]

If there's a spellslinger in the party, encourage them to pick up Haste and use it liberally on you to get multiple Sneak Attacks in a round.

...What? You can only get one SA per turn, which amounts to two per round, with your reaction. Haste has literally no effect on that.

[Albonor]

If short rests are easy to come by (depends on the DM and the party of course), I'm pretty sure this is fairly solid. At level 8 you'll be able to land an average of 3 sharpshooter hits (on four shots with action surge) for 6d8+4d6+42 on the surprise round. More if you have a magic bow. Pretty sure that 83 damage on round 1 makes you MVP!

[Naanomi]

Not the direction you are going but... For an AL ranger-but-not myself I'd go with

Wood Elf/Outlander;
Rogue 1/Fighter 1/Rogue +18
8/16/14/12/16/8
Perception, Stealth, Acrobatics, Nature, Survival, Athletics, Investigation
Assassin Subclass, Archery Combat Style
Expertise: Stealth, Survival; Perception, (Investigation/Nature/Acrobatics your choice)
Common, Elven
Sharpshooter, +2 Dex, +2 Dex, Skulker, Lucky, Alert (or Martial Adept)

I played a very similar character (but a drow and more social) and it worked well. Scout ahead unseen without peer, almost always take out someone in one hit from stealth, and skirmish and stealth in combat. Easily hits your tracking/ranger needs as well

[Specter]

...What? You can only get one SA per turn, which amounts to two per round, with your reaction. Haste has literally no effect on that.

You can use that extra Haste action to prepare an attack, thus getting a sneak attack later. "When the orc attacks someone, I attack him".

[Naanomi]

You can use that extra Haste action to prepare an attack, thus getting a sneak attack later. "When the orc attacks someone, I attack him".
Well, you can't prepare an attack with the haste action (it isn't on the list of things you can do), but you can hold your main action and attack with the Haste action to similar effect

[Sicarius Victis]

You can use that extra Haste action to prepare an attack, thus getting a sneak attack later. "When the orc attacks someone, I attack him".

Though, since that still requires your reaction, that's still maybe two SAs per round.

Oh, and BTW, even if you Ready your regular Action, it still only lets you make one attack. Extra Attack only functions on your turn.

So, if you hit with both attacks, then yes. It does let you get two Sneak Attacks.

[Naanomi]

Though, since that still requires your reaction, that's still maybe two SAs per round.

Oh, and BTW, even if you Ready your regular Action, it still only lets you make one attack. Extra Attack only functions on your turn.

So, if you hit with both attacks, then yes. It does let you get two Sneak Attacks.
Definitely works better as a trick for people without Extra Attack, to be sure, but still potent with enough Sneak Attack. The loss of the reaction isn't terrible as a ranged fighter, who wouldn't likely to be using their reaction offensively any other way. Archery Style, sharpshooter cover ignoring, frequently being stealthed... potentially Precise Shot, Lucky Feat, Bless... I'd feel more confident than not about landing those attacks.

[rooneg]

Not the direction you are going but... For an AL ranger-but-not myself I'd go with

Wood Elf/Outlander;
Rogue 1/Fighter 1/Rogue +18
8/16/14/12/16/8
Perception, Stealth, Acrobatics, Nature, Survival, Athletics, Investigation
Assassin Subclass, Archery Combat Style
Expertise: Stealth, Survival; Perception, (Investigation/Nature/Acrobatics your choice)
Common, Elven
Sharpshooter, +2 Dex, +2 Dex, Skulker, Lucky, Alert (or Martial Adept)

I played a very similar character (but a drow and more social) and it worked well. Scout ahead unseen without peer, almost always take out someone in one hit from stealth, and skirmish and stealth in combat. Easily hits your tracking/ranger needs as well

That's certainly an awesome way to go, I just want someone who's got a little more battlefield control going on, a bit less of a glass cannon.

[Naanomi]

That's certainly an awesome way to go, I just want someone who's got a little more battlefield control going on, a bit less of a glass cannon.
I get that. In a way, you are making a choice whether to deal damage through sneak attack (in which case only one level of fighter is helping); or to deal damage through sharpshooter + lots of attacks + superiority dice effects, in which case you may be served with just a tiny dip in Rogue (1-2 levels to make the best use of superiority dice? Other cutoffs would be Fighter 11 and 15)

I still do feel the first level should be in Rogue either way, Ranger is a skill-class and you can always use another proficient skill.

[rooneg]

I get that. In a way, you are making a choice whether to deal damage through sneak attack (in which case only one level of fighter is helping); or to deal damage through sharpshooter + lots of attacks + superiority dice effects, in which case you may be served with just a tiny dip in Rogue (1-2 levels to make the best use of superiority dice? Other cutoffs would be Fighter 11 and 15)

I still do feel the first level should be in Rogue either way, Ranger is a skill-class and you can always use another proficient skill.

I'm certainly starting with just a small dip. 1 rogue, then 5 or 6 fighter, then a second rogue. At that point I either go to 5 rogue or just keep taking fighter. Which way I go will be informed by which elements of the character I'm enjoying. I'm pretty sure I want more than just 2 levels of Rogue, but the question becomes one of priority.

[djreynolds]

Not the direction you are going but... For an AL ranger-but-not myself I'd go with

Wood Elf/Outlander;
Rogue 1/Fighter 1/Rogue +18
8/16/14/12/16/8
Perception, Stealth, Acrobatics, Nature, Survival, Athletics, Investigation
Assassin Subclass, Archery Combat Style
Expertise: Stealth, Survival; Perception, (Investigation/Nature/Acrobatics your choice)
Common, Elven
Sharpshooter, +2 Dex, +2 Dex, Skulker, Lucky, Alert (or Martial Adept)

I played a very similar character (but a drow and more social) and it worked well. Scout ahead unseen without peer, almost always take out someone in one hit from stealth, and skirmish and stealth in combat. Easily hits your tracking/ranger needs as well

I like this build, plenty of damage out put, I might go for 3 battlemaster if just for precision

Also, ranger isn't terrible... pass without a trace is awesome. No one can track you without magical means and +10 to stealth.

The great thing about the above build, is even though you have sharp shooter you can easily go melee as your sneak attack damage works for any weapon.

Its a great build, Naanomi

I have played a 4 battlemaster/8 hunter/ 8 rogue... awesome. There are so many ways to skin this cat.

Anyhow Rooneg would love to you post your build and see how it goes.

[rooneg]

Anyhow Rooneg would love to you post your build and see how it goes.

Right now it's Rogue 1/Fighter 4, since I'm starting at 5th level when I first play this character at TotalCon. The level 4 ASI goes to Sharpshooter.

The plan is to get a 5th level of Fighter for Extra Attack, then a 2nd level of Rogue for Cunning Action. At this point the build is basically online, everything works as expected. Next a 6th level of Fighter to boost DEX to 18 and CON to 16. From there I'll take another two levels of Rogue, picking Assassin as my archetype and bumping DEX to 20 at level 10.

From there things are a little handwavy (which is fine, since it's kind of crazy far away, none of my characters get played regularly), but I'm planning on another level of Rogue for Uncanny Dodge, then taking Fighter until I grab my 3rd attack at Fighter 11 (character level 16). The ASI at Fighter 8 goes for Alert, to maximize Assassin damage. The last 4 levels are a mix of 3 more Rogue and 1 more Fighter, ending up with Fighter 12 and Rogue 8. The last two ASIs are Lucky and +2 to CON because who doesn't like hit points.

Alternatively, if I decide I prefer Sneak Attack damage and super skills to Extra Attack and bigger superiority dice I'll end up with 12 Rogue and 8 Fighter, which means an extra ASI, probably another +2 to CON.

Everything past level 10 is probably pretty theoretical, what with the amount I actually play, but we'll see what happens. At some point one of my characters will break out into Tier 3, maybe it'll be this one ;-)

[2D8HP]

I want to play a ranger, but I hate that it's a caster class....

.......Any thoughts?



Not the direction you are going but... For an AL ranger-but-not myself I'd go with

Wood Elf/Outlander;
Rogue 1/Fighter 1/Rogue +18
8/16/14/12/16/8
Perception, Stealth...

.......Scout ahead unseen without peer, almost always take out someone in one hit from stealth, and skirmish and stealth in combat. Easily hits your tracking/rangerds as well


I very much second starting wisdom at 16, and I also recommend Expertise in Perception and Stealth, to be the party "Scout". Fighting Style: Archery combined with a high DEX is AWESOME!, but Sneak Attack is situational. If you have a high AC and/or HP teammate, who will stand within five feet of the antagonists for you, than Sneak Attack is BADASS!, and I really like having both a level in Fighter and Rogue by second level. I think I like the Rogues "Cunning Action" better than the Fighters "Action Surge", but "Extra Attack" earlier sure is tempting.

Like you I like all the Ranger "fluff" except spell-casting, but unlike you I dislike the complexity of the Battlemaster's" "Superiority Dice", even though that's supposed to mesh well with Rogue.

I had similar questions with the:

Wishlist optimal Fighter/Ranger/Rogue (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?496796-Wishlist-optimal-Fighter-Ranger-Rogue)

thread, which may be a useful read for you.

Your PC sounds like one I'd like to play.

Keep the arrows flying!

[rooneg]

I very much second starting wisdom at 16, and I also recommend Expertise in Perception and Stealth, to be the party "Scout". Fighting Style: Archery combined with a high DEX is AWESOME!, but Sneak Attack is situational. If you have a high AC and/or HP teammate, who will stand within five feet of the antagonists for you, than Sneak Attack is BADASS!, and I really like having both a level in Fighter and Rogue by second level. I think I like the Rogues "Cunning Action" better than the Fighters "Action Surge", but "Extra Attack" earlier sure is tempting.

Yeah, I definitely agree on expertise going into Perception and Stealth. That seems like a no-brainer to me for this archetype. I don't disagree that a 16 in WIS is nice, but the decision comes down to either 16 WIS and 13 CON or 14 WIS and 15 CON. Since the most commonly used WIS skills will already have expertise I'm ok with the 14, and the extra CON means I have a few more hit points, which should help offset the fact that this build has terrible AC, especially before it increases DEX at level 8 and 10.

As far as Sneak Attack vs Extra Attacks, I agree that Sneak Attack is somewhat situational, especially for an AL character where you'll be playing in random parties. If you can assume you've got a tank who'll go stand next to the bad guy that Sneak Attack looks gold. If not, less so, because you're relying on a situation where you can attack while hidden, which tends to rely on a helpful DM. Since I expect variation, I'm more inclined to shoot for Extra Attack ASAP, just because it is more consistently helpful. Also, Extra Attack does give you more attempts at Sneak Attack in the "The Tank Stands Next To The Target" situation, and it makes Action Surge even better.

[djreynolds]

Take resilient wisdom over lucky, with a 16 in wis (+3) its up to +9 saves at 17th. Better chance of making these saves than with just indomitable or lucky...

But that said, you really just have to play it. Especially since you are going from 1st.

We did storm king, and I began as a fighter human variant (SS at 1st) and then went to rogue, should have gone wood elf for the extra skill and blessed darkvision.... anyhow I miss a lot with sharpshooter... even with the paladin spamming bless

But what I realized is that a rogue archer can put out some damage, SA is the way to go.

I like the damage from SS, but the dice do not always go my way.

"Im using SS, roll 8s and 9s." "Im not using SS, roll 15s and 16s" seriously

But the damage from multiple rogue levels SAs 1d6 quickly equals multiple attacks from SS.

So the key to using sharpshooter is hiding and gaining advantage from it, and using cunning action to hide again. Rolling twice will help makes those 8s above into 13s.

A buddy with 5ft only qualifies you for sneak attack, but hiding gives you advantage, thus qualifying you for sneak attack and rolling twice.

Oh and did you guys get slammed with snow, we gotta like a foot

[rooneg]

Take resilient wisdom over lucky, with a 16 in wis (+3) its up to +9 saves at 17th. Better chance of making these saves than with just indomitable or lucky...

Yeah, that's also on my short list, we'll see. It's a LONG way away.


Oh and did you guys get slammed with snow, we gotta like a foot

Yeah, we had between 12 and 18 inches, depending on where the wind blew it. Yet another time I'm very happy to have a snowblower ;-)