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View Full Version : 3.5 incarnum: Unique Chaotic and lawful soulmelds: brainstorming session



daremetoidareyo
2017-02-06, 05:21 PM
There are no unique soulmelds to help out the anarchic and axiomatic folks out there. Smite lawful/chaotic stinks, so anything based around those concepts is no fun. What do you think would be cool new incarnum chaotic and lawful abilities?

My shortlist of ideas is this

Lawful: base ability: basically the knight of tyrs holy judgment feat. Essencia? Chakra binds?

Chaotic: something that emulates a tiny sphere of annihilation?

Anything else?

Morphic tide
2017-02-06, 06:34 PM
For Lawful, stiffness and cooperation are the two core themes. Disables on enemies and buffs on allies are the two main "themes" of ability to go with. Semi-complex, regimented progressions based on tangential things like how much Essentia you can invest and which level of Soulmeld(the Least, Lesser, Greater and class-specific ones) are another thing to do. Like, find effects appropriate for various levels you get new Chakras at and levels you get a new point of Essentia investment maximum, then make Soulmelds that give such effects under those conditions.

For example, you can have Soulmelds with abilities based on things from well-liked and balanced at-wills of those levels, or base them on Maneuvers unlocked at those levels. To give a blatantly obvious example, you can have White Raven maneuvers and stances converted to Soulmelds as sets. When you invest 2 Essentia, you can use an effect based on some specific 3rd level White Raven maneuver. Stances can be replicated as passives unlocked when bound to Chakras unlocked at the appropriate level. Warlock and Dragonfire Adept Invocations can be replicated by a similar process. Generally, you have the Soulmeld replicate a progression of specific, directly related abilities that either disable or buff keyed to the level it is enabled at.

For Chaotic, you have jumbles of seeming-nonsense with highly varied barely-linked effects. Binding one to the Feet chakra might increase your move speed, but then binding the same one gives you extra to-hit and the investment bonus provides an AC bonus. The theme is confusion, having stuff that twists tendencies like crazy and making strategy on both ends hard. You have randomness and disparate effects on the user's side and betrayal and screwing with the battlefield itself for the DM to deal with.

For example, a single soulmeld might give one added point of maximum Essentia invested on other Soulmelds shaped to the same chakra, but not ones bound there. Then, binding it to the hands gives a strength bonus based on invested Essentia. Next, binding it to the Throat chakra lets you use an ability that deals Sonic damage and give a minor Charm effect at the same time. The heck is the link here? That of overclocking. Or, going into the "DM will hate you" field, one that gives access to raising the ground as a full-round-action on a scale determined by the invested Essentia, gives you DR X/- when bound to a Lesser Chakra and lets you rip flying enemies out of the sky and straight to the ground when bound to a Greater Chakra. The link is that it's earth themed.

Or you can look to the Planers who represent Law and Chaos for abilities to steal, or the various spells with the descriptors of Law and Chaos.

daremetoidareyo
2017-02-06, 09:14 PM
For Lawful, stiffness and cooperation are the two core themes. Disables on enemies and buffs on allies are the two main "themes" of ability to go with. Semi-complex, regimented progressions based on tangential things like how much Essentia you can invest and which level of Soulmeld(the Least, Lesser, Greater and class-specific ones) are another thing to do. Like, find effects appropriate for various levels you get new Chakras at and levels you get a new point of Essentia investment maximum, then make Soulmelds that give such effects under those conditions.

For example, you can have Soulmelds with abilities based on things from well-liked and balanced at-wills of those levels, or base them on Maneuvers unlocked at those levels. To give a blatantly obvious example, you can have White Raven maneuvers and stances converted to Soulmelds as sets. When you invest 2 Essentia, you can use an effect based on some specific 3rd level White Raven maneuver. Stances can be replicated as passives unlocked when bound to Chakras unlocked at the appropriate level. Warlock and Dragonfire Adept Invocations can be replicated by a similar process. Generally, you have the Soulmeld replicate a progression of specific, directly related abilities that either disable or buff keyed to the level it is enabled at.

For Chaotic, you have jumbles of seeming-nonsense with highly varied barely-linked effects. Binding one to the Feet chakra might increase your move speed, but then binding the same one gives you extra to-hit and the investment bonus provides an AC bonus. The theme is confusion, having stuff that twists tendencies like crazy and making strategy on both ends hard. You have randomness and disparate effects on the user's side and betrayal and screwing with the battlefield itself for the DM to deal with.

For example, a single soulmeld might give one added point of maximum Essentia invested on other Soulmelds shaped to the same chakra, but not ones bound there. Then, binding it to the hands gives a strength bonus based on invested Essentia. Next, binding it to the Throat chakra lets you use an ability that deals Sonic damage and give a minor Charm effect at the same time. The heck is the link here? That of overclocking. Or, going into the "DM will hate you" field, one that gives access to raising the ground as a full-round-action on a scale determined by the invested Essentia, gives you DR X/- when bound to a Lesser Chakra and lets you rip flying enemies out of the sky and straight to the ground when bound to a Greater Chakra. The link is that it's earth themed.

Or you can look to the Planers who represent Law and Chaos for abilities to steal, or the various spells with the descriptors of Law and Chaos.

A slaad based soulmeld sounds great.

I don't rather like the white raven tactics idea that much. But since you mentioned orderliness, the ability to command or rebuke constructs would be a cool flavorful soulmeld.

EisenKreutzer
2017-02-08, 12:11 AM
A lawful soulmeld could be inevitable-based. Gauntlets of the Kolyarut could confer a scaled-down version of Vampiric Touch, for example, while binding it could grant a ranged version while giving a natural AC bonus or damage reduction based on health stolen. Or something.

aimlessPolymath
2017-02-08, 12:51 AM
A thematically appropriate soulmeld for Law would be some kind of law-based abilities (define a Rule), which gives you a bonus against lawbreakers, but is turned off when you break the law. When applied to the crown chakra, it allows you to command prohibitively; allies gain the bonuses too as long as they don't break the laws you set out.

A thematically appropriate soulmeld for Chaos could be something which affects emotions- some kind of Taunt ability, maybe, where the target gets a bonus against you and a penalty to not attacking you. If tweaked, it could also double as a neat commander-type ability when bound to the crown chakra, allowing you to get your allies riled up.


Something which might make sense for either one would be manipulation of variance- Law soulmelds afflict with Inevitability, applying a penalty to attack rolls which roll above 10 and a bonus to rolls which roll below 10, while Chaos does the opposite. Law would as a result increase relative matchups, presenting a sort of "natural order" in which the strong always beat the weak (need a 14 to hit? now it's a 16!), while chaos does the opposite- anything can happen; a giant can fall to a halfling, and a peasant can outwit a king. I stole this from a Luck-based class, which by varying the bonus with the roll, put Lawful characters on a roll-scale of 15-5 (-1 per two points of roll above 10), and Chaotic characters on a roll-scale of 25-(-5) (+1 bonus per two points of roll above 10). If you do this, you should probably have the roll be projected as an Aura to maintain parity, since people don't roll for AC.

Law also values decisiveness and honesty- if you say what you plan to do next turn, you gain a bonus for following through. If you make a promise, you gain a small bonus to checks made to keep it. (small because applying it to everything could get silly)
Chaos values freedom and self-determination- Not only can they slippery mind free of most effects, they screw the rules and ignore penalties imposed on them by others!
(these might be separate soulmelds, or chakra binds for the same meld)

Ursus Spelaeus
2017-02-08, 06:06 AM
I love everything related to modrons.
Some Mechanus-themed soulmelds would be great!

How about a soulmeld that takes the form of a modron's crossbow for a projectile attack? Reloads as a free action, and has infinite ammunition that counts as magic and lawfully aligned for purposes of damage resistance. For each essentia invested, you can make one additional attack per round with the weapon. You take a -2 to all attacks for every additional attack made in this way. If you bind the soulmeld to your hand chakra, you get the benefits of Point Blank Shot. If you bind the soulmeld to your arm chakra, you can increase the attack's range.

We could also base a soulmeld around the formian hive mind. Grants protection from being flanked (as the Threefold Mask of the Chimera). It also grants an aura of at-will telepathy (with lawful creatures). The aura extends 10' from you for every point of essentia invested. If formian hive mind soulmeld is bound to your crown chakra, lawfully aligned allies within your aura are also protected from being flanked.

aimlessPolymath
2017-02-08, 10:42 AM
What kind of law- or chaos-themed skill-boosting soulmelds could we do?

Law: Small bonuses to carrying out a promise, as I mentioned before.
Binds:
???: At the end of your turn, you may declare your actions for the next round. While you do not need to describe them in exacting detail, you must provide enough information that another player could reasonably play out your turn for you (e.g. you declare that you will charge and attack a particular creature, that you will cast fireball on the largest clump of enemies, etc.) At the start of your turn, you gain a +2 insight bonus to AC and attack rolls. You lose that bonus when you deviate from your declared actions.

Chaos: Improvisor's Toolkit:Once per minute, when you make a skill check, ability check, or attack roll, you can substitute a different ability bonus for the one which would normally be used.
Binds:
??? bind: You gain the slippery mind ability.
Waist bind: Once per minute, you may produce from the toolkit a nonmagical tool which weighs no more than 1 lb and can be no more than one cubic foot in size. It disappears after 1 minute/level, when broken or when you produce another one.

Law again:
Judge's Gavel:
You gain a bonus to Sense Motive checks. Whenever you catch someone in a lie, you gain a bonus to Intimidate and Diplomacy checks to force them to spill the truth.
Binds:
Probably something involving Zone of Truth.
Probably something involving being a lawyer.

Chaos:
I'd rather not have a straight Bluff based thing, playing into the stereotype of Chaos-as-lawbreakers.

One thing I'd like to play off is something I read a while back, about the distinction between tribalism and civilization. It was in one of the Science of Discworld books, but I'm not sure which.
Paraphrased and missing much:
Civilization is restrictive. Credit is not given to individuals, but to the system of law which they live in. People can only lose value for breaking rules, but don't gain any for following them. This is pretty much stereotypical Law, and provides a lot of great inspiration for abilities.
Tribes are the opposite- individuals can earn glory for doing great things for the tribe. I don't remember the rest of it, sadly, but I think we can mine the idea of personal glory and accomplishment over the good of the group for Chaos-focused abilities.

Ursus Spelaeus
2017-02-08, 11:14 AM
Dwarves are usually lawful, right?

Dwarven Helm
+2 bonus to all Appraise checks, Craft checks, and Search checks related to stone or metal items and constructions.
Increase the bonus by +2 for each point of essentia invested.
Bind to the crown chakra to gain a +2 bonus on saving throws against spells and spell-like effects for each essentia invested.

Skarn are usually lawful, too! Let's give the skarn some love (because they can sure use it.)

Skarn Crest
+2 bonus to Climb and Intimidate skill checks for each point of essentia invested.
Skarn Racial Effect: If you are a skarn, increase this soulmeld's essentia capacity by +1.

aimlessPolymath
2017-02-08, 12:17 PM
For reference:
Good aligned soulmelds:
Armguards of Disruption: Anti-undead weapon. Bound gives it AC and saves vs. undead. Incarnate, soulborn
Lammasu Mantle: Protection from good, almost. Bind: Share with allies, magic circle vs. evil summons, breath weapon. Incarnate, totemist.
Shedu Crown. Immune to bull rush + save bonus vs. Mind Affecting effects. Bound: ethereal jaunt or trample. Totemist only.
Strangely, neither the unicorn nor pegasus binds are good aligned.

Evil aligned soulmelds:
Bloodwar Gauntlets: Attack bonus. Bound: Unshape to unleash a blast, or bonus to confirm crits. Incarnate only.
Gloves of the Poisoned Soul: Wisdom damage touch attack- only a little bit of damage. Bound: Strength damage, too. Soulborn only.
Lamia Belt: Bluff/Hide meld. Bind: Speed + Spring attack, or claw attacks. Totemist only.
The necrocarnum chain. Incarnate, soulborn.

All:
Incarnate avatar, Incarnate weapon
Soulspark Familiar.

It looks like we're only really missing one general meld for chaos, one for law, and a couple of creature-related ones.
Beyond that, we could work on equivalents to necrocarnum for different classes, but we should also try to come up with some more good and evil aligned ones.

Ursus Spelaeus
2017-02-14, 06:56 AM
Actually, we could use an extra ranged option for chaotic Incarnates. I mean something that gives them a ranged attack.
Incarnate Weapon should have given chaotic characters a longbow, but we got an axe instead. Not even a throwing axe! The only other ranged option for chaotic incarnates is Dissolving Spittle.
How about a soulmeld associated with the winds of Pandemonium that grants a ranged attack? Make it a normal attack instead of a ranged touch attack, but increase the range and increase the damage.