True Seeing and Werewolves

[McBish]

So True Seeing allows you to see somethings true form. What sort of affect would this have on someone looking at a werewolf. Since they have multiple forms would you see them as they appear to be or in one of its different forms?

[Mike_Lemmer]

I'd say it shows you one of its other forms:

Hybrid form if it's in human or animal form.
Human form if it's in hybrid form.

[Inyssius Tor]

That's what I'd rule, but then again I think that true seeing should let you Sneak Attack the undead.

[Angel in Black]

That's what I'd rule, but then again I think that true seeing should let you Sneak Attack the undead.

Just curious, what's your reasoning behind that?
(sorry about the de-railing)

[Inyssius Tor]

With true seeing, a rogue can see the flows of negative energy that animate the creature, and can strike at the points where they congregate (in an attempt to disrupt them).

EDIT: Actually, arcane sight would be the more proper spell, but I'm the DM, dang it! Whatever I say goes!

[Angel in Black]

With true seeing, a rogue can see the flows of negative energy that animate the creature, and can strike at the points where they congregate (in an attempt to disrupt them).

EDIT: Actually, arcane sight would be the more proper spell, but I'm the DM, dang it! Whatever I say goes!

Oooooh, I like. I may just have to instate that house-rule.

[Quietus]

So True Seeing allows you to see somethings true form. What sort of affect would this have on someone looking at a werewolf. Since they have multiple forms would you see them as they appear to be or in one of its different forms?

The form they're in is perfectly natural (for them), so I'd have True Seeing reveal nothing but what they see. If they're inflicted and attempting to fight it, I might give a ghost image of their natural form if they're in werewolf or wolf form instead.

[Justyn]

With true seeing, a rogue can see the flows of negative energy that animate the creature, and can strike at the points where they congregate (in an attempt to disrupt them).

EDIT: Actually, arcane sight would be the more proper spell, but I'm the DM, dang it! Whatever I say goes!

There's actualy a spell for just that perpose: it's called "Grave Strike"; it's in Complete Adventurer, page 150. Only works for one round, though. And I think that it's in the Spell Compendium as well.

[Inyssius Tor]

Oh, I know, I just think that a number of other detection spells should be able to do that as well. I don't really like grave strike's fluff, either.

[NullAshton]

As a werewolves' hybrid and animal form is because of an Alternate Form supernatural ability, you would see their human form if they're in the hybrid/animal form, and nothing if they're already in their human form. By the rules, at least.

[Leicontis]

Because a lycanthrope actually changes its physical form, a True Seeing spell would show nothing but its current form. All True Seeing really does is see past illusions. If you want to check for lycanthropy, perhaps the spell "Discern Shapechanger" would be more appropriate (and cheaper - True Seeing has an expensive material component).

[TheOOB]

Even with true seeing you still see the creature in it's current form, you can also just "see" (most likely in the metaphysical sense) the other forms of the shape shifted creature.

I personally don't think True Seeing should see past a lycanthropes shape shifting, unlike a spell or illusion, no magic is concealing the creatures form, they simple change.

Then again I require an opposed caster level check to see past illusions with true seeing, I'm odd like that.

[Anxe]

Would it work differently with Born lycanthropes than afflicted ones?

[TheOOB]

Would it work differently with Born lycanthropes than afflicted ones?

Nope, their shapechanging is the same, the only real difference is that naturals can control it better and have better DR.

[Collin152]

Nope, their shapechanging is the same, the only real difference is that naturals can control it better and have better DR.

And as I recall, only natural Lycanthropes pass on the curse.

[Dervag]

True Seeing can't penetrate a nonmagical disguise such as a wig. It cannot see through a mask or a wall. In general it cannot penetrate any nonmagical form of concealment.

So the crux of the question is whether or not shapeshifting is a magical form of concealment. A human polymorphed into a wolf (or vice versa) would be revealed as a human (or wolf) by True Seeing. But a werewolf shapeshifted into a human really does have the human form; that is their true form insofar as they have one. They have multiple 'true' forms, just as a person might have multiple addresses.

So I would argue that a werewolf cannot be revealed as such by True Seeing, any more than a person cursed with unnatural hair growth would be revealed as having a 'true' form with less hair than the one they currently possess.

[Fawsto]

If you get the Werewolf RPG, youd probably get a Wolf in some kind of spiritual form. Probably not a hybrid.

Well, at least this is my opinion on this.

[Zeful]

The Monster Manual doesn't say much except their Alternate Form ability is (su).

But you have two choices on what to do:
A) True Seeing sees nothing.
B) Deal with it like the Eladrin's Alternate form in which True Seeing shows both forms.

[Renx]

I'd rule that you see the current form, with a ghost shape of a wolf's head over his face.

[Amphimir Míriel]

I would rule that a true seeing spell would show all of the werewolves forms at the same time, as superimposed images.

Make a horror check, btw :smallbiggrin:

[hewhosaysfish]

A true seeing spell or ability reveals the creature’s natural form. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#alternateForm)

So in the case of lycanthropes, you would see the base creature, not the base animal or the hybrid form. This would let you recgnise a werewolf from a normal wolf but not from a normal human.
Oddly, there is no mention that the True Seer (sounds like a PrC...) recieves any indication that the form they see, the true form, is not the form the creature is currently in. So if you saw a werewolf running around in wolf form, you wouldn't be able to tell he was in wolf form just by looking at it... DMs may want to either rule-zero some sort of super-imposed image. That or mess with the players head enormously.