The best close combat spells?

[imaginary]

I'm looking to play a close-combat caster. Not a Gish, but a full caster built to survive in melee. But the build is a separate question.

One of the advantages of being in close-combat is the ability to make better use of some spells. Let's assume I figure out a way to keep a full caster standing in close-combat. What would be some of the coolest spells he could take advantage of while being in close range?

For example here are just a few that come to mind:

Poison Spray
Thunderwave
Armor of Agathys
Fire Shield
Vampiric Touch
Cure Wounds

What other spells would be good in close? And which would be the best path, divine or arcane?

~imaginary

[Drackolus]

Shocking grasp, Thunderwave, and Bladeburst are all melee also. Lightning Lure is a close range option that puts them in melee. Shillelagh+gfb/bb also is a "cast a spell" action and using nothing but your spellcasting modifier, so arguably is more "melee caster" than a gish. The line is blurry, but eh. Your staff can also be your arcane focus, so it's still wizard-y. Gandalf hit people with a stick.
Warcaster and con save proficiency are both mandatory, I feel. If you wanna be in melee range, you're gonna get smacked around. Having booming blade with warcaster gives you a weaker sentinel (they can still move, but at least you get extra damage out of it.)
The stone sorcerer (today's UA) can do this the best. Nobody is making you use those martial weapons, and teleporting next to a friend in danger is still cool when you don't do a bunch of damage. The weaker feature is more than made up for in being able to not increase your str or dex.
If you want to have a Charisma attack, you can take a 3 level warlock dip too.

[Foxhound438]

Thunderwave




Ah, this one. I really like the idea of making a storm sorc with storm sphere and thunderwave to force things back into the area of the sphere with bonus damage.

Aside from that,

-shield could see a lot of value where you're getting attacked by a multitude of enemies

-Conjure Bonfire, or any other 5' area spell (cloud of daggers comes to mind) is really strong with grappling. even when you don't want to do that, you can arrange yourself with another ally as shown around an enemy:

_ _ A
_ E _
Y _ _

with "_" being empty or filled by other things, "A" being an ally, "E" being your enemy, and "Y" being you. They either have to stay in the spot and take the spell damage or move out and take an OA from one or the other. It's a bit of "map metagaming", but in a version where you're precisely measuring from one center to another without a grid you can still do this by standing exactly opposite of each other with only the very edge of your reach on them.

-Spirit guardians is a favorite of cleric players, for good reason

-really high level, but earthquake could be fun to just toss things into a random d10*10' hole that wasn't there a moment ago

-any polymorph equivalent can be fun to turn into the biggest bad you've ever seen to fight the next enemy

-Web maybe? the easy restrain on any number of targets could be neat, allows you to close in easily against ranged foes, and gives advantage

-any number of "wall" spells to trap in enemies with you

[bid]

Don't forget crossbow expert + repelling blast. Or blade ward + quickened. Not the same approach, though.

[Arkhios]

I'm surprised no-one mentioned Burning Hands yet (or maybe I'm just blind).

Fire is a commonly resisted damage type, but there are quite a bit of vulnerable creatures as well.

Cone of Cold is brutal with its size.

Lightning Bolt shouldn't be underestimated either, nor Chain Lightning.

Anyway, I'd say any self-centered area spells are great for close combat, because a) casting a spell doesn't cause opportunity attack and b) area spells don't suffer like ranged (spell) attacks from hostile proximity.

[JellyPooga]

Destructive Wave is great; auto-targeting, AoE, dual-type damage. In fact, the Paladin list has some great contenders here and Bard is the fastest way to pick those up. For this kind of build, I think Lore Bard is actually a remarkably good way to go. There's few enough spells of this type and they're spread across a number of different lists, making Magical Secrets the easiest, most efficient method of picking them all up while maintaining your full-caster status.

[Joe the Rat]

Destructive Wave is great; auto-targeting, AoE, dual-type damage.
Good lord yes. I had a lovely party vs. evil cult fight (like, literally an entire cult), and the paladin managed to cut a swath through the lines by dropping this. Be careful with over-level spell scrolls, folks.

(The cult leader responded by wading into the party with Spirit Guardians. Also effective).

Anything save based is effectively a 0-listed range effect - sacred flame and frostbite essentially can do double-duty.
Thorn Whip is another fun one - melee attack (so no penalty for using with adjacent opponents), with range, and lets you pull folks in.

Misty Step/Expeditious Retreat/Dimension Door: Get out of jail spells should not be overlooked. Sometimes you need to extract yourself. Sometimes you need to insert yourself.

If you are eyeing partial Warlock, Arms of Hadar falls in the "Area Effect / Get Out of Jail" category. Earth Tremor plays a similar role.

General defense spells (blur, mirror image) work well here, as they make you a harder target. This runs counter to the porcupine spells/effects (AoA, rebukes, fire shield), however. Depending on your build, you may need to focus on one or the other.

[Sir cryosin]

I'm surprised nobody said this yet but one of my favorite melee attack spells is a _inflict wounds_, and _Thorn whip_ it has a range of 30 feet but it's actually a melee spell attack. _ alter self_ could give you cool Natural weapons or unarmed Strike weapons.

For class arcane cleric or the new favored Soul sorcerer. Pick up tough feat and race MT dwarf. Or a lore bard. To another extent Valor bard. You might want to start fighter just for heavy armor and con save. I got a fighter 2, adoration wizard 18 that hard to kill. You can also go bladesinger to.

[BW022]

I am going to make a shout out for dissonant whispers.

While it has range, it really shines in melee.

* V only, so no casting issues with weapons and shields. No need for the warcaster tax.
* It does a reasonable (3d6) amount of damage, and the damage is psychic so few immunities or resistances.
* A failed save can easily generate multiple opportunity attacks -- you and any party members also in melee or which it must move past.
* At higher-levels, even if cast at 1st-level, the opportunity attack damage tends to scale well.
* It has range if you need it -- say to help another party member out who isn't near you.
* It can disrupt enemy tactics such as sneak attacks, pact tactics, grapples, auras, etc.
* It can be used as an escape spell -- i.e. cast, allow it to flee, and then use your movement to get away.
* It can be used to break out grapples.
* Against slower opponents it can be used as a keep away from me spell.
* If cast as a readied action, it can often nerf entire melee attack sequences, while still doing damage and often still provoking opportunity attacks.

It is pretty flexible. I was once in a party with a bard and a warlock who both had the spell. Even at 8th+ level, they were yo-yo'ing fairly large monsters through repeated opportunity attacks from a barbarian, fighter, and themselves while often preventing them from attacking entirely.

[Fishyninja]

Would Shatter fall into this category?

[Ruslan]

Poison Spray is horrible. Poison damage is the most often resisted/immune among monsters, and Con save is the best save for monsters, on average.

[Oramac]

crossbow expert

This. Definitely grab this feat. Per Dev Tweets, it affects ALL ranged attacks within 5 feet, not just crossbow attacks.

As for spells, Hellish Rebuke and Hold Person/Monster.

Hellish Rebuke because it fits the theme and...

Hold Person/Monster because you can get advantage on spell attacks and automatic crits with said spell attacks. It's a very powerful combination. Technically, you don't even need Xbow Expert to make it happen, but it's still a good feat to have.

[Zene]

-Conjure Bonfire, or any other 5' area spell (cloud of daggers comes to mind) is really strong with grappling. even when you don't want to do that, you can arrange yourself with another ally as shown around an enemy:

_ _ A
_ E _
Y _ _

with "_" being empty or filled by other things, "A" being an ally, "E" being your enemy, and "Y" being you. They either have to stay in the spot and take the spell damage or move out and take an OA from one or the other. It's a bit of "map metagaming", but in a version where you're precisely measuring from one center to another without a grid you can still do this by standing exactly opposite of each other with only the very edge of your reach on them.



Oh, neat trick! Thanks for sharing!

[Paeleus]

Be a War Cleric. Inflict Wounds, Spiritual Weapon, and Shield of Faith/Bless/Divine Favor. Heavy Armor, Martial Weapons, and a shield. Domain features are great.

Conversely, look into Forge Cleric or Stone Sorcerer if you want a sword swinging spell caster.

[Deleted]

Be a War Cleric. Inflict Wounds, Spiritual Weapon, and Shield of Faith/Bless/Divine Favor. Heavy Armor, Martial Weapons, and a shield. Domain features are great.

Conversely, look into Forge Cleric or Stone Sorcerer if you want a sword swinging spell caster.

Inflict wounds is just so much fun, especially on a crit.

Sacred Flame is a great close combat spell, being able to run around and not worry about disadvantage on an attack roll is nice. You can use it up close or at range. Good damage type too.

Conjure Rave aka Hypnotic Pattern. Yeah it has a long range, but when you are up front and center you can turn the battlefield into a rave. Just be sure to shut your eyes before you cast it. Just start dancing with your glowsticks and have some fun!

[imaginary]

Thanks all for the build ideas and spell suggestions, there are a bunch I never considered. I've actually been very tempted by the Forge Cleric, mainly for the high AC and Shield spell. But I don't know if my GM will allow the UA content.

If I did go Lore Bard, what might some of the best spells be to take with Magical Secrets? Sounds like Destructive Wave is one good choice.

[ShikomeKidoMi]

Melee Caster? Cleric is good but have you considered Abjuration Wizard? It's got good survivability, which you'll need, and access to the Wizard spell list.

[Finback]

I've always wanted to make a wizard who was more melee based. Now, you might think this sounds nuts - I roughly built one up in 4e. All his spells were touch- or short-range based, and he took feats in armour and grappling type areas. The basic gist is a wizard who augments himself with AC-raising or speed-increasing buffs, and uses things like touch-based fire and lightning spells. I dubbed him Quinn, the Fightin' Mage. I'm hoping to give a similar idea a whirl in 5e.

[Arkhios]

I've always wanted to make a wizard who was more melee based. Now, you might think this sounds nuts - I roughly built one up in 4e. All his spells were touch- or short-range based, and he took feats in armour and grappling type areas. The basic gist is a wizard who augments himself with AC-raising or speed-increasing buffs, and uses things like touch-based fire and lightning spells. I dubbed him Quinn, the Fightin' Mage. I'm hoping to give a similar idea a whirl in 5e.

Both the Abjurer and Transmuter would work really well for that concept, imho. Abjurer might be slightly better with the "shield" that absorbs damage taken.

I made (for fun) a mountain dwarf abjurer, wearing medium armor and a warhammer while also ideally casting spells useful for close range. (I think I may have left his Dexterity around 10, and planned on taking heavy armor proficiency as well).

[Sir cryosin]

Melee Caster? Cleric is good but have you considered Abjuration Wizard? It's got good survivability, which you'll need, and access to the Wizard spell list.

I got to throw my hat in on adj wizard to I play a fighter 2 adj wizard 18 in last night and I was out tanking the barbarian. And I had 179 HP and 45 ward HP. AC 28 +3 plate and shield and a staff of power.

[imaginary]

As I understand it, there are generally 3 approaches to increasing survivability of a full caster in melee combat.

1) Porcupine approach with Armor of Agathys, Rebukes, and/or Fire shield
2) Damage reduction and/or temp HP with spells like False Life or the Abjuration Wizard's shield
3) Turtle with a high AC using heavy armor and shield, Shield of Faith, Shield spell, and/or other AC boosters

What do you guys think of the different approaches and what would you pick?

[Vaz]

Armour of Agathys, Hellish Rebuke, Blade Ward

Blade Ward gives weapon resistance, AoA spikes back, Hellish rebuke for bulk damage. No concentration required.

[Foxhound438]

Oh, neat trick! Thanks for sharing!

You're welcome!

Strangely, I still haven't had a character that could do this despite the EEPC coming out a long time ago. Slow character turnover, I guess.

[Deleted]

I've always wanted to make a wizard who was more melee based. Now, you might think this sounds nuts - I roughly built one up in 4e. All his spells were touch- or short-range based, and he took feats in armour and grappling type areas. The basic gist is a wizard who augments himself with AC-raising or speed-increasing buffs, and uses things like touch-based fire and lightning spells. I dubbed him Quinn, the Fightin' Mage. I'm hoping to give a similar idea a whirl in 5e.

Stone Sorcerer (cough4eSwordmagecough), Blade tradition Wizard, or Eldritch Knight.

Eldritch Knight/Stone Sorcerer would be a great level 20 build. Str, Con, Cha based with Resilient Wis... The Ek get some nice features just not enough spells..

EK 14/Stone Sorcerer 6

Mixing your Aegis attack with Eldritch Strike is very deadly. You could potentially have 5 creatures at disadvantage to your next spell (Attack, Dual Wield/PAM Attack, Extra Attack 2, Extra Attack 3, Aegis Reaction).

Hypnotic Pattern at disadvantage would be nice... Or you could just fireball them.

[gfishfunk]

Vamperic Touch is a pretty good spell in specific situations, specifically when you have a bunch of cannon-fodder that you can just wade through. The damage is not a lot, but the hp regeneration on your end makes up for it over the long term. Thus, if you can reliably kill one thing each turn, you can get to the other side of the combat in good shape.

Bestow Curse is pretty amazing too. Also touch level, but its a save or suck without any good affect on a save, like no half damage.

[BW022]

As I understand it, there are generally 3 approaches to increasing survivability of a full caster in melee combat.

1) Porcupine approach with Armor of Agathys, Rebukes, and/or Fire shield
2) Damage reduction and/or temp HP with spells like False Life or the Abjuration Wizard's shield
3) Turtle with a high AC using heavy armor and shield, Shield of Faith, Shield spell, and/or other AC boosters

What do you guys think of the different approaches and what would you pick?

(1) isn't that effective as most creatures soon have 2x, 3x, or more hit points than you. CR 5 monsters often have 100hp+, you might have 40hp. Most often dish out more damage per hit than these spells do. Most of the time, they can just choose to take the damage knowing you'll die before them. Combined with hit AC, yes... you expect the creature to miss half the time and then these tend to work.

I'll add...

4) Reach. Reach weapons combined with flying, spider climb, or just staying behind tanks.

5) Heavy debuffs. Blindness, darkness, vicious mockery, curses, hold person, etc. You hope your opponent is so disabled that they can't attack or are at major disadvantage when they do so.

6) High movement. You simply don't end your turn next to them, even if you provoke. Mounted combat, high fly speed, teleporting, high normal speed, etc. Even if they get an opportunity attack, at least they can't use multi-attack. You move, attack, and move away. With enough movement, flying, moving behind others, other already in melee... they can't reach you or won't want to draw all the opportunity attacks themselves. So, they only get the opportunity attack, vs. your big spell attack. This can also be used in tactics such as luring opponents a good distance away and then double-moving (or disengaging) away to aid archers or ranged parties.

7) Serious defensive spells. Mirror image, blur, blink, greater invisibility, etc.

8) Polymorph and similar spells. You bet on out damaging them or simply wasting hit points.

9) Forcing them to move. Spells such as fear, dissonant whispers, etc. simply to force them to move away.

10) Fight weak targets. Dimension door into the rear ranks and attack the enemy wizard, for example.

11) Go defensive. Works well at low levels or if you somehow have a damage over time or a bonus action attack of some sort. Say spiritual weapon.

12) Disguise or trickery. Make yourself look like the enemy, maybe a trickery domain duplicate or disguise self. They might not be able to target you for a round or two.

13) It isn't worth attacking you. You have a barbarian or rogue ally doing a lot more damage than you and you are out of spells. Chances are someone else might be a bigger threat.

etc.

Lots of ways to prevent or limit being hit.

[gfishfunk]

1) Porcupine approach with Armor of Agathys, Rebukes, and/or Fire shield


(1) isn't that effective as most creatures soon have 2x, 3x, or more hit points than you. CR 5 monsters often have 100hp+, you might have 40hp. Most often dish out more damage per hit than these spells do. Most of the time, they can just choose to take the damage knowing you'll die before them. Combined with hit AC, yes... you expect the creature to miss half the time and then these tend to work.

. . . .

13) It isn't worth attacking you. You have a barbarian or rogue ally doing a lot more damage than you and you are out of spells. Chances are someone else might be a bigger threat.

The porcupine approach is basically (or near) approach 13: its not so much about damage as it is about deterrence.

[Specter]

Contingency, don't forget Contingency. "When a hostile creature gets within 5 feet of me, I cast Blight in it". Works like a charm.

[Deleted]

Contingency, don't forget Contingency. "When a hostile creature gets within 5 feet of me, I cast Blight in it". Works like a charm.

Contingency
6th-level evocation

Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: Self
Components: V, S, M (a statuette of yourself carved from ivory and decorated with gems worth at least 1,500 gp)
Duration: 10 days

Choose a spell of 5th level or lower that you can cast, that has a casting time of 1 action, and that can target you. You cast that spell—called the contingent spell—as part of casting contingency, expending spell slots for both, but the contingent spell doesn’t come into effect. Instead, it takes effect when a certain circumstance occurs. You describe that circumstance when you cast the two spells. For example, a contingency cast with water breathing might stipulate that water breathing comes into effect when you are engulfed in water or a similar liquid.

The contingent spell takes effect immediately after the circumstance is met for the first time, whether or not you want it to, and then contingency ends.

The contingent spell takes effect only on you, even if it can normally target others. You can use only one contingency spell at a time. If you cast this spell again, the effect of another contingency spell on you ends.

Also, contingency ends on you if its material component is ever not on your person.

====
Blight
4th-level necromancy

Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 30 feet
Components: V, S
Duration: Instantaneous

Necromantic energy washes over a creature of your choice that you can see within range, draining moisture and vitality from it. The target must make a Constitution saving throw. The target takes 8d8 necrotic damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. This spell has no effect on undead or constructs.

If you target a plant creature or a magical plant, it makes the saving throw with disadvantage, and the spell deals maximum damage to it.

If you target a nonmagical plant that isn’t a creature, such as a tree or shrub, it doesn’t make a saving throw; it simply withers and dies.

====


Uhhh... I might be missing something here (just took some meds) but Blight is going to hit yourself.

Also, losing the material component makes you lose the spell...

[Specter]

Contingency
6th-level evocation

Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: Self
Components: V, S, M (a statuette of yourself carved from ivory and decorated with gems worth at least 1,500 gp)
Duration: 10 days

Choose a spell of 5th level or lower that you can cast, that has a casting time of 1 action, and that can target you. You cast that spell—called the contingent spell—as part of casting contingency, expending spell slots for both, but the contingent spell doesn’t come into effect. Instead, it takes effect when a certain circumstance occurs. You describe that circumstance when you cast the two spells. For example, a contingency cast with water breathing might stipulate that water breathing comes into effect when you are engulfed in water or a similar liquid.

The contingent spell takes effect immediately after the circumstance is met for the first time, whether or not you want it to, and then contingency ends.

The contingent spell takes effect only on you, even if it can normally target others. You can use only one contingency spell at a time. If you cast this spell again, the effect of another contingency spell on you ends.

Also, contingency ends on you if its material component is ever not on your person.

====
Blight
4th-level necromancy

Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 30 feet
Components: V, S
Duration: Instantaneous

Necromantic energy washes over a creature of your choice that you can see within range, draining moisture and vitality from it. The target must make a Constitution saving throw. The target takes 8d8 necrotic damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. This spell has no effect on undead or constructs.

If you target a plant creature or a magical plant, it makes the saving throw with disadvantage, and the spell deals maximum damage to it.

If you target a nonmagical plant that isn’t a creature, such as a tree or shrub, it doesn’t make a saving throw; it simply withers and dies.

====


Uhhh... I might be missing something here (just took some meds) but Blight is going to hit yourself.

Also, losing the material component makes you lose the spell...

Ok. This changes strategy, but not the efficacy. Some other good stuff:
- Fire Shield: if they move in to attack you, they're getting hurt as well.
- Mislead: vanish in thin air as they attack you, and laugh invisibly.
-Otiluke's Sphere: they waste their turn trying to damage you, and then you cancel concentration on your turn.
- Polymorph: take a hit as a t-rex, then revert to your original form and ignore that damage.

Anyway, many strategies that would be weak become very good when you don't spend your action on them.

[Deleted]

Ok. This changes strategy, but not the efficacy. Some other good stuff:
- Fire Shield: if they move in to attack you, they're getting hurt as well.
- Mislead: vanish in thin air as they attack you, and laugh invisibly.
-Otiluke's Sphere: they waste their turn trying to damage you, and then you cancel concentration on your turn.
- Polymorph: take a hit as a t-rex, then revert to your original form and ignore that damage.

Anyway, many strategies that would be weak become very good when you don't spend your action on them.

See... You are being waaaay to vague.

It takes 10 minites to cast, you don't want a goblin to trigger it.

Contingency isn't all that great of a spell for close combat ... You don't want to waste spells on mooks.

[RickAllison]

Contingency
6th-level evocation

Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: Self
Components: V, S, M (a statuette of yourself carved from ivory and decorated with gems worth at least 1,500 gp)
Duration: 10 days

Choose a spell of 5th level or lower that you can cast, that has a casting time of 1 action, and that can target you. You cast that spell—called the contingent spell—as part of casting contingency, expending spell slots for both, but the contingent spell doesn’t come into effect. Instead, it takes effect when a certain circumstance occurs. You describe that circumstance when you cast the two spells. For example, a contingency cast with water breathing might stipulate that water breathing comes into effect when you are engulfed in water or a similar liquid.

The contingent spell takes effect immediately after the circumstance is met for the first time, whether or not you want it to, and then contingency ends.

The contingent spell takes effect only on you, even if it can normally target others. You can use only one contingency spell at a time. If you cast this spell again, the effect of another contingency spell on you ends.

Also, contingency ends on you if its material component is ever not on your person.

====
Blight
4th-level necromancy

Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 30 feet
Components: V, S
Duration: Instantaneous

Necromantic energy washes over a creature of your choice that you can see within range, draining moisture and vitality from it. The target must make a Constitution saving throw. The target takes 8d8 necrotic damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. This spell has no effect on undead or constructs.

If you target a plant creature or a magical plant, it makes the saving throw with disadvantage, and the spell deals maximum damage to it.

If you target a nonmagical plant that isn’t a creature, such as a tree or shrub, it doesn’t make a saving throw; it simply withers and dies.

====


Uhhh... I might be missing something here (just took some meds) but Blight is going to hit yourself.

Also, losing the material component makes you lose the spell...

It makes perfect sense! If the wizard uses Blight on himself, he will be dead before the enemy/DM can take him out!

[fbelanger]

Sculpt spell + Fireball.

[Deleted]

It makes perfect sense! If the wizard uses Blight on himself, he will be dead before the enemy/DM can take him out!

You seem to be a student of the "My face to Your Foot" school of kung fu... Your mastery is astounding!

[Specter]

See... You are being waaaay to vague.

It takes 10 minites to cast, you don't want a goblin to trigger it.

Contingency isn't all that great of a spell for close combat ... You don't want to waste spells on mooks.

Then detail it. Any condition is possible, even a specific creature and a specific amount of damage you take. Don't limit yourself.

[Deleted]

Then detail it. Any condition is possible, even a specific creature and a specific amount of damage you take. Don't limit yourself.

The issue is that if you are using this as a combat spell it will either be too specific it never goes off or way to vague and it always goes off.

You don't want it going off on a mook.

Contingency works best when you are staying the hell away from other creatures so that the spell only goes off when it's an emergency.

This is not a spell to use in close combat.

[RulesJD]

The issue is that if you are using this as a combat spell it will either be too specific it never goes off or way to vague and it always goes off.

You don't want it going off on a mook.

Contingency works best when you are staying the hell away from other creatures so that the spell only goes off when it's an emergency.

This is not a spell to use in close combat.

1. When I shout out "OH NO" as you can speak off turn

2. When I am about to be Counterspelled -> Greater Invisibility

Tada

[Deleted]

1. When I shout out "OH NO" as you can speak off turn

2. When I am about to be Counterspelled -> Greater Invisibility

Tada

Nope.

"The contingent spell takes effect immediately after the circumstance is met for the first time, whether or not you want it to, and then contingency ends."

The contingency spell would go off after the counterspell. So, whatever spell you was casting might still fizzle (depending on a roll).

Since you are reacting to another creature's actions, your "OH NO" would go after the creature got their counter spell off... Unless you say OH NO before the DM announces that the creature is counter-spelling you...

So while you are under the effects of greater invisibility, the spell you was casting before could be interrupted by counter spell.


====

Contingency is a good spell, just not as powerful as people think.

Especially because how reactions/reacting to things work.

My personal rulings go counter RAW a lot, so don't think I'm a stickler for this kind of thing. I'm just explaining how the book works.


I would probably have a bunch of troll women hitting on your character, pyramid scheme mummies trying to sell you something, or have a bar wench if you hated the food... just to mess with you and get you to say "oh, no thank you..." or something like that. lol

[RulesJD]

Nope.

"The contingent spell takes effect immediately after the circumstance is met for the first time, whether or not you want it to, and then contingency ends."

The contingency spell would go off after the counterspell. So, whatever spell you was casting might still fizzle (depending on a roll).

Since you are reacting to another creature's actions, your "OH NO" would go after the creature got their counter spell off... Unless you say OH NO before the DM announces that the creature is counter-spelling you...

So while you are under the effects of greater invisibility, the spell you was casting before could be interrupted by counter spell.


====

Contingency is a good spell, just not as powerful as people think.

Especially because how reactions/reacting to things work.

My personal rulings go counter RAW a lot, so don't think I'm a stickler for this kind of thing. I'm just explaining how the book works.


I would probably have a bunch of troll women hitting on your character, pyramid scheme mummies trying to sell you something, or have a bar wench if you hated the food... just to mess with you and get you to say "oh, no thank you..." or something like that. lol

*sigh*

They were two different conditions.

Also, no. Just no. Contingency can be for almost any condition, up to an including "If I am about to be Counterspelled" in that it is literally the same effect as the Shield spell just for Counterspelling. So I am about to be Counterspelled, my Contingency triggers, which makes me Invisible, which makes me (largely) immune to Counterspell. You could even say "If I am about to be Counterspelled and I am choosing not to use my own Counterspell" or some other specific phrasing.

Using words as a trigger is great because you get to choose, which can help cover everything from incoming Attacks to Dragon's Breath etc. Not as useful for the Counterspell -> Great Invis strategy, but no strategy is perfect (besides Infinite Simulacrum obvi).

[Deleted]

*sigh*

They were two different conditions.

Also, no. Just no. Contingency can be for almost any condition, up to an including "If I am about to be Counterspelled" in that it is literally the same effect as the Shield spell just for Counterspelling. So I am about to be Counterspelled, my Contingency triggers, which makes me Invisible, which makes me (largely) immune to Counterspell. You could even say "If I am about to be Counterspelled and I am choosing not to use my own Counterspell" or some other specific phrasing.

Using words as a trigger is great because you get to choose, which can help cover everything from incoming Attacks to Dragon's Breath etc. Not as useful for the Counterspell -> Great Invis strategy, but no strategy is perfect (besides Infinite Simulacrum obvi).

No, actually the shield spell has a specific rule for it.

"An invisible barrier of magical force appears and protects you. Until the start of your next turn, you have a +5 bonus to AC, including against the triggering attack, and you take no damage from magic missile."



The general rule for reactions is that they take place AFTER the trigger. Contingency even says so too...

Mage Slayer v Shocking Grasp has already been over this. Shocking Grasp stops Mage Slayer from getting their Reaction Attack because the reaction happens AFTER the trigger.

When you say "I'm about to be counterspelled", that means absolutely nothing. Whenever you are around mages, you are always "about to be" counterspelled, they just may not have decided yet.

You are trying to make the spell way more powerful than what it is.

"For example, a contingency cast with water breathing might stipulate that water breathing comes into effect when you are engulfed in water or a similar liquid."

Hypotheticals don't work, something has to actually happen for your contingency to go off.

You or your DM may love to let contingency be as powerful as a 10th level spell but I know way too many DMs that won't let that fly. Work with what the spell gives you, not what you want the spell to give you.

[Vaz]

Why are you discussing Contingency when Glyph of Warding is infinitely better?

[Deleted]

Why are you discussing Contingency when Glyph of Warding is infinitely better?

Because some people think that Contingency is waaaaaaay better than what it is?

Though glyph of warding's effectiveness has been greatly reduced since 3e... Still great for setting traps but not really a close combat spell...


Glyph of Warding
3rd-level abjuration

Casting Time: 1 hour
Range: Touch
Components: V, S, M (incense and powdered diamond worth at least 200 gp, which the spell consumes)
Duration: Until dispelled or triggered

When you cast this spell, you inscribe a glyph that harms other creatures, either upon a surface (such as a table or a section of floor or wall) or within an object that can be closed (such as a book, a scroll, or a treasure chest) to conceal the glyph. If you choose a surface, the glyph can cover an area of the surface no larger than 10 feet in diameter. If you choose an object, that object must remain in its place; if the object is moved more than 10 feet from where you cast this spell, the glyph is broken, and the spell ends without being triggered.
The glyph is nearly invisible and requires a successful Intelligence (Investigation) check against your spell save DC to be found.
You decide what triggers the glyph when you cast the spell. For glyphs inscribed on a surface, the most typical triggers include touching or standing on the glyph, removing another object covering the glyph, approaching within a certain distance of the glyph, or manipulating the object on which the glyph is inscribed. For glyphs inscribed within an object, the most common triggers include opening that object, approaching within a certain distance of the object, or seeing or reading the glyph. Once a glyph is triggered, this spell ends.
You can further refine the trigger so the spell activates only under certain circumstances or according to physical characteristics (such as height or weight), creature kind (for example, the ward could be set to affect aberrations or drow), or alignment. You can also set conditions for creatures that don't trigger the glyph, such as those who say a certain password.
When you inscribe the glyph, choose explosive runes or a spell glyph.

Explosive Runes. When triggered, the glyph erupts with magical energy in a 20-foot-radius sphere centered on the glyph. The sphere spreads around corners. Each creature in the area must make a Dexterity saving throw. A creature takes 5d8 acid, cold, fire, lightning, or thunder damage on a failed saving throw (your choice when you create the glyph), or half as much damage on a successful one.

Spell Glyph. You can store a prepared spell of 3rd level or lower in the glyph by casting it as part of creating the glyph. The spell must target a single creature or an area. The spell being stored has no immediate effect when cast in this way. When the glyph is triggered, the stored spell is cast. If the spell has a target, it targets the creature that triggered the glyph. If the spell affects an area, the area is centered on that creature. If the spell summons hostile creatures or creates harmful objects or traps, they appear as close as possible to the intruder and attack it. If the spell requires concentration, it lasts until the end of its full duration.

At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 4th level or higher, the damage of an explosive runes glyph increases by 1d8 for each slot level above 3rd. If you create a spell glyph, you can store any spell of up to the same level as the slot you use for the glyph of warding.

[Vaz]

Dunno about that. Throw it on some surfaces like some bracers, and arm bands, and have them trigger as 'when you touch the glyph with your opposite hand/specific finger', and boom, you have concentration spells maintain their Concentration, and can maintain multiple.

If you want ones to trigger on other reflexive actions, you could have things like Glyph Blade Ward trigger whenever you cast Shield.

[Deleted]

Dunno about that. Throw it on some surfaces like some bracers, and arm bands, and have them trigger as 'when you touch the glyph with your opposite hand/specific finger', and boom, you have concentration spells maintain their Concentration, and can maintain multiple.

If you want ones to trigger on other reflexive actions, you could have things like Glyph Blade Ward trigger whenever you cast Shield.

The issue is...

Casting Time: 1 Hour

When you cast this spell, you inscribe a glyph that harms other creatures, either upon a surface (such as a table or a section of floor or wall) or within an object that can be closed (such as a book, a scroll, or a treasure chest) to conceal the glyph. If you choose a surface, the glyph can cover an area of the surface no larger than 10 feet in diameter. If you choose an object, that object must remain in its place; if the object is moved more than 10 feet from where you cast this spell, the glyph is broken, and the spell ends without being triggered.


It is not a good close combat spell.

[Vaz]

You can cast it on

An object which closes
Or
A surface

It only breaks if you move the object, not the surface.

Sure, it takes an hour to cast. So cast it in your downtime.

What's so difficult to understand?

[Deleted]

You can cast it on

An object which closes
Or
A surface

It only breaks if you move the object, not the surface.

Sure, it takes an hour to cast. So cast it in your downtime.

What's so difficult to understand?

A table is an object.

If you take a piece of floor away from the floor... It's an object (mostly a chunk of rock). Tables are already objects, it just happens to have a surface.

Once you make the surface an object, it has to be an object that can close (and then has the 10' limitation).

You can try to weasel put of this one but no, Glyph of Warding is not a close combat spell and it is not moveable.

I played an explosive rune mage in 3e, had a feat that allowed my spells to only hurt evil and netrual aligned creatures and used most of my down time making explosive runes of those (I was good... As was most of my party). Thank you BoED! So I k ow why and how you want this spell to work but it just doesn't work that way without a cheesy exploration and a very passive/new DM.

[RickAllison]

The Glyph of Warding discussion is moot with the errata/6th printing:


Glyph of Warding (p. 245). The first
sentence clarifies that the magical effect
needn’t be harmful. The final two sentences
of the first paragraph now read as
follows: “The glyph can cover an area no
larger than 10 feet in diameter. If the surface
or object is moved more than 10 feet
from where you cast this spell, the glyph is
broken, and the spell ends without being
triggered” (6th printing).

So the errata both explicitly allows for non-harmful/beneficial uses (so using GoW to store buffing spells) and also disallows bypassing the movement restriction.

[Vaz]

A table is an object.

If you take a piece of floor away from the floor... It's an object (mostly a chunk of rock). Tables are already objects, it just happens to have a surface.

Once you make the surface an object, it has to be an object that can close (and then has the 10' limitation).

You can try to weasel put of this one but no, Glyph of Warding is not a close combat spell and it is not moveable.

I played an explosive rune mage in 3e, had a feat that allowed my spells to only hurt evil and netrual aligned creatures and used most of my down time making explosive runes of those (I was good... As was most of my party). Thank you BoED! So I k ow why and how you want this spell to work but it just doesn't work that way without a cheesy exploration and a very passive/new DM.
As above, discussion is moot.

That said, going by what the rules stated in the copy of the book, there is a difference between 'The object which can open' and 'surface'. It doesn't (didn't) matter that it's 'an' object, but does matter if it's 'the object which can open'.

That they had to specifically write in 'surface' in the Errata shows it is/was something different entirely.

The adult in me says I should walk out at that, but I feel like being a child; 'so nur'.

[Deleted]

As above, discussion is moot.

That said, going by what the rules stated in the copy of the book, there is a difference between 'The object which can open' and 'surface'. It doesn't (didn't) matter that it's 'an' object, but does matter if it's 'the object which can open'.

That they had to specifically write in 'surface' in the Errata shows it is/was something different entirely.

The adult in me says I should walk out at that, but I feel like being a child; 'so nur'.

You are changing the table from a surface to an object.

Once you decide the target is an object, by removing it from the floor or by picking up the table, you have yo use the object rules of the spell.

You are purposely trying to weasel a bonus into the spell by claiming that a target can be both "a surface" and "an object". You get one or the other, not both.


http://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/08/11/glyph-of-warding-on-a-shield/

https://mobile.twitter.com/mikemearls/status/750393751214764032?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw


Edit====

Didn't see Rick's post, thought you was replying to another post... Multiquote is our friend :p

[Talderas]

Shocking grasp, Thunderwave

Good spells for a non-close range caster as well as these both allow the caster to more safely extricate himself from a sticky situation.

[RickAllison]

Edit====

Didn't see Rick's post, thought you was replying to another post... Multiquote is our friend :p

And this is why I read all the posts, not just the ones replying to me! :smalltongue:

[Deleted]

And this is why I read all the posts, not just the ones replying to me! :smalltongue:

I scrolled over yours, I just didn't see it.:smallfrown:

[RulesJD]

No, actually the shield spell has a specific rule for it.

"An invisible barrier of magical force appears and protects you. Until the start of your next turn, you have a +5 bonus to AC, including against the triggering attack, and you take no damage from magic missile."



The general rule for reactions is that they take place AFTER the trigger. Contingency even says so too...

*snip*

This will go a lot easier for you when you just admit that you're wrong.

The ACTUAL way Contingency works is as follows:
"You describe that circumstance when you cast the two spells. For example, a contingency cast with water breathing might stipulate that water breathing comes into effect when you are engulfed in water or a similar liquid. The contingent spell takes effect immediately after the circumstance is met for the first time..."

Circumstance = I am ABOUT to be Counterspelled, literally just lifting the wording from the Shield spell as Contingency has NO language describing limitations on circumstances. The Contingency does NOT go off as a Reaction, so stop trying to say that it is. You're wrong, so move on

Next, it takes effective immediately after the circumstance is met. Circumstance is I am ABOUT to be Counterspelled, not that I AM being Counterspelled. A bit of reading comprehension goes a long ways.

[RickAllison]

This will go a lot easier for you when you just admit that you're wrong.

The ACTUAL way Contingency works is as follows:
"You describe that circumstance when you cast the two spells. For example, a contingency cast with water breathing might stipulate that water breathing comes into effect when you are engulfed in water or a similar liquid. The contingent spell takes effect immediately after the circumstance is met for the first time..."

Circumstance = I am ABOUT to be Counterspelled, literally just lifting the wording from the Shield spell as Contingency has NO language describing limitations on circumstances. The Contingency does NOT go off as a Reaction, so stop trying to say that it is. You're wrong, so move on

Next, it takes effective immediately after the circumstance is met. Circumstance is I am ABOUT to be Counterspelled, not that I AM being Counterspelled. A bit of reading comprehension goes a long ways.

Source: Oxford Dictionaries


1 (usually circumstances) A fact or condition connected with or relevant to an event or action:
‘we wanted to marry but circumstances didn't permit’

1.1 An event or fact that causes or helps to cause something to happen, typically something undesirable

Contention 1: The event "about to be Counterspelled" in terms of an immediate reaction cannot function because it creates a it creates an impossible situation.

The circumstance "about to be Counterspelled" is directly tied to the event "being counterspelled" since it can't be the cause of the same. If you become invisible, the other caster would not cast Counterspell because they can't. And if they can't cast Counterspell, the event that is directly responsible for the Contingency coming into play didn't occur and so Contingency could not have because the circumstance never arose. The only way for "about to be Counterspelled" to actually work is for the Counterspell to have gone through which would render the intended effect meaningless. Alternatively...

Contention 2: The event "about to be Counterspelled" is vague and would activate long before the intended timing.

With the analysis of Contention 1, it becomes apparent that directly responding to the Counterspell spell creates an impossible loop where the Contingent spell coming into play directly prevents the necessary circumstance from occurring. Thus, it cannot be contingent on the time-proximity of the event to function, so it would have to be tied to intent. As in you couldn't successfully make it contingent upon a non-event as it creates a paradox, so it must be tied to the initiating circumstances leading up to the proposed event.

So whenever someone thinks they will Counterspell you will be the effective trigger, as that is the earliest defined point of being "about to be Counterspelled". This should actually have a similar effect to that which you desired, so long as you don't mind the enemy's spell slot not being used.

Also, it is contingent (pun intended) on the DM being okay with thoughts being the triggering mechanism. This opens up odd Contingency combinations. "About to be Counterspelled" should be just as valid for triggering as "I am lied to", or "I am evaluated as more dangerous than the Barbarian". All of those require triggers that exist solely in the minds of others, and so your suggested circumstance opens up a variety of interesting triggers.

[N810]

Clearly using contingency to cast delayed fireball is the best close combat spell. :elan:

[Deleted]

Clearly using contingency to cast delayed fireball is the best close combat spell. :elan:

Race/class with fire resistance.

"When I restrain a creature by grappling them, cast delayed fireball."


Hold the monster on the ground , you are both restrained and have disadvantage on dex saves, and just wait for the spell to reach maximum potential.

Boom.

22d6 is a lot of d6.

Don't do this around hordes but if you expertise athletics you can probabaly pull this off on a boss.

[Vaz]

You are changing the table from a surface to an object.

Once you decide the target is an object, by removing it from the floor or by picking up the table, you have yo use the object rules of the spell.

You are purposely trying to weasel a bonus into the spell by claiming that a target can be both "a surface" and "an object". You get one or the other, not both.



No, i'm not. Look at manual man.

I'm on a phone so it's hard to quote and tyoe, but seriously RTFM;

[cast the spell], either upon a surface... Or within an object that can be closed... To conceal the glyph. If you choose a surface...if you choose an object, that object must remain in place.

Surfaces may be objects, but it is specifying an object that can closed is the object in question which cannot be moved.

It is why they had to release the Errata, because they added it in after playtest closed, and didn't knkw what they are writing.

Also, please don't quote Sage Advice to me. I don't care or agree with their 'answers' on many things and will wait until the Errata (as above) corrects their mistakes. It at least is more official than some guy sat in his office reading twitter. Which seems like a huge waste of resources if it is Jeremy Crawford, and if it's not, makes me wonder on the validity of this.

[RickAllison]

No, i'm not. Look at manual man.

I'm on a phone so it's hard to quote and tyoe, but seriously RTFM;

[cast the spell], either upon a surface... Or within an object that can be closed... To conceal the glyph. If you choose a surface...if you choose an object, that object must remain in place.

Surfaces may be objects, but it is specifying an object that can closed is the object in question which cannot be moved.

It is why they had to release the Errata, because they added it in after playtest closed, and didn't knkw what they are writing.

Also, please don't quote Sage Advice to me. I don't care or agree with their 'answers' on many things and will wait until the Errata (as above) corrects their mistakes. It at least is more official than some guy sat in his office reading twitter. Which seems like a huge waste of resources if it is Jeremy Crawford, and if it's not, makes me wonder on the validity of this.

Before the errata came out, I had been planning a gadgeteer style wizard. He was going to inscribe Glyphs onto projectiles that would be flung across the battlefield and detonate when they land. Wouldn´t have been practical, but it would have been fun!

[Deleted]

No, i'm not. Look at manual man.

I'm on a phone so it's hard to quote and tyoe, but seriously RTFM;

[cast the spell], either upon a surface... Or within an object that can be closed... To conceal the glyph. If you choose a surface...if you choose an object, that object must remain in place.

Surfaces may be objects, but it is specifying an object that can closed is the object in question which cannot be moved.

It is why they had to release the Errata, because they added it in after playtest closed, and didn't knkw what they are writing.

Also, please don't quote Sage Advice to me. I don't care or agree with their 'answers' on many things and will wait until the Errata (as above) corrects their mistakes. It at least is more official than some guy sat in his office reading twitter. Which seems like a huge waste of resources if it is Jeremy Crawford, and if it's not, makes me wonder on the validity of this.

There has been an errata that confirms that you can't move a surface or an object.

It didn't work originally and it doesn't work now.

[Vaz]

You'd struggle to pour water out of a boot with instructions on the heel, mate.

[Arkhios]

You'd struggle to pour water out of a boot with instructions on the heel, mate.

No need to get up close and personal there. If there's an errata off of it, that's as official as it can get. Whether or not that errata is in line with Sage Advice or Tweet or something else. If you're refusing to acknowledge an errata, it's basically saying that you don't want to play by the rules.

[Vaz]

There has been an errata that confirms that you can't move a surface or an object.

It didn't work originally and it doesn't work now.
An errata confirms nothing. An errata changes things. It's the literal definition of the word. It can't literally be both correct in print and errata'd.

That is why my friend struggles with pouring water. I try to follow errata, but also more likely to follow the wording in my books unless it's unclear, as that is what the grouos play with and read for rules queries.

Going by the book, it is literally clear as day, and required errata to remove that use of it. How something cannot be done before errata, and also cannot be done post errata when they've literally changed it to prevent the action everyone wad using before just comoletely boggles the mind.

Insuppose I shouldn't be too harsh though, maybe they don't speak english natively, in ehich case, my bad.

[bid]

You'd struggle to pour water out of a boot with instructions on the heel, mate.
You've lost the RAW argument a long time ago. Being an ass won't change that.

[imaginary]

No offense, but you guys have hijacked this thread with a debate about contingency. It is not very helpful to other folks or me in figuring out good close combat spells. You've each made your point, but ultimately how contingency is played is up to the DM. I would love to hear about other, perhaps less obviously close combat spell, and how they might help in close.

[Arkhios]

I would love to hear about other, perhaps less obviously close combat spell, and how they might help in close.

Plant Growth. Massive difficult terrain for everyone!

[Vaz]

You've lost the RAW argument a long time ago. Being an ass won't change that.

I've lost no such argument. Literally, they made a Errata to correct the RAW.

[Arkhios]

I've lost no such argument. Literally, they made a Errata to correct the RAW.

Do you even know why they make erratas?
Because what's written in the book was unintended, and that those unintended bits will be fixed in the next printing of the book.
But because they can't and won't force people who already have bought the books to buy a new copy, errata remains an official extension of the old prints.

[Vaz]

Ergo, RAW, I was correct.

And yes. I do know why they issue the erratas. That was the reason between me saying Deleted was deficient in ability to pour water.

[Deleted]

Ergo, RAW, I was correct.

And yes. I do know why they issue the erratas. That was the reason between me saying Deleted was deficient in ability to pour water.

No.

You are starting to make me sad with how desperate you are clinging to this idea.

Even under the original wording you couldn't use it that way. What was unintended was for people to weasel their DMs and say a table wasn't an object when you moved it.

But, I guess that's their fault for using plain english. /s

[Vaz]

No.

You are starting to make me sad with how desperate you are clinging to this idea.

Even under the original wording you couldn't use it that way. What was unintended was for people to weasel their DMs and say a table wasn't an object when you moved it.

But, I guess that's their fault for using plain english. /s
Apart from that's not what it says, in plain english.

[Arkhios]

Ergo, RAW, I was correct.

And yes. I do know why they issue the erratas. That was the reason between me saying Deleted was deficient in ability to pour water.

You are, of course, free to rule however you wish in your table, but don't assume that others would see eye to eye with you, if they had the more recent print of the book (or were willing to follow what's written in an errata).

[RickAllison]

You are, of course, free to rule however you wish in your table, but don't assume that others would see eye to eye with you, if they had the more recent print of the book (or were willing to follow what's written in an errata).

I think the entire point of Vaz's rebuttal was that s/he was correct by RAW before the errata, but apparently that was not the RAI. Now the idea would not work, and Vaz has conceded this point, because the errata has changed the RAW.

The contention by Deleted that Vaz opposed was "It didn't work originally and it doesn't work now." The fact that it doesn't work now is true, but a/he contests that the necessity of the errata to close the loophole is circumstantial proof that even WotC realized the previous RAW was saying something that was not intended.

Yaz: RAW, it used to work; now it does not. They changed RAW to bring it in line with RAI.

Deleted: It never worked by RAW. (Which would make the errata entirely pointless.)

[Deleted]

Apart from that's not what it says, in plain english.

Only when you ignore all the other rules in the game and don't use plain english... Sure? Plain english isn't perfect, you know that right? But anyways...

Object from the game's rules are... "For the purpose of these rules, an object is a discrete, inanimate item like a window, door, sword, book, table, chair, or stone, not a building or a vehicle that is composed of many other objects."

The spell always worked like the the errata says, just because a table has a surface doesn't mean it isn't an object.

The table was never not an object, the piece of stone floor (once separated from the building) is an object, and so on and so on.

If the target of the spell is an object it can't move 10'.

They just had to change their wording because some people, like you, like to use alternative facts and weasel their way around DMs to try and break the game.

[RulesJD]

Race/class with fire resistance.

"When I restrain a creature by grappling them, cast delayed fireball."


Hold the monster on the ground , you are both restrained and have disadvantage on dex saves, and just wait for the spell to reach maximum potential.

Boom.

22d6 is a lot of d6.

Don't do this around hordes but if you expertise athletics you can probabaly pull this off on a boss.

*sigh, again*

The fact that you think this works is proof enough that you have no idea how the Contingency spell works.

[RulesJD]

Source: *snip*

Thus, it cannot be contingent on the time-proximity of the event to function, so it would have to be tied to intent. As in you couldn't successfully make it contingent upon a non-event as it creates a paradox, so it must be tied to the initiating circumstances leading up to the proposed event.

*snip*

*SIGH EVEN HARDER*

You do understand how the basic properties of time work right?

1. I cast a spell
2. Enemy is about to Counterspell me.
3. Contingency triggers, I am Invisible, and thus (generally) cannot be Counterspelled.
4. Enemy can no longer see me, so Counterspell attempt fails. DM discretion on whether the enemy's attempt at Counterspell burns the slot


Want to know why I know this works? Because that's LITERALLY what the Shield spell does.

But lets keep going and refine the text further:

"When I am targeted by the Counterspell spell -> cast Greater Invis"

The key word "targeted" clearly works, as that is the description in the Shield spell. It also occurs before the result of the Magic Missile spell is resolved and takes a Reaction which Contingency doesn't even require.


Just admit you're wrong, and move along. It will be easier for all of us. You don't even realize how Contingency works (as shown above).

[LVOD]

This thread took very little time to get off topic...

Anyway, I find it odd that there's little suggestion for Warlock. Yes, Clerics and certain sorcerers have more AC, but the warlocks whole schtick is that he circumvents traditional rules.

Per example, darkness + devils sight will give your enemies disadvantage (roughly the equivalent of +3.5AC) and with the fiend patron you are very porcupine-y (fire shield, armor of agathys, hellish rebuke). Plus you get your choice of a weapon, familiar, or sweet book (in this case probably the tome). Lastly, eldrich blast is arguably the best cantrip, and works best with warlocks. Repelling blast can also push enemies away when you need to recoup, you have temp hp out the wazoo, and goodies like polymorph.

I hear the next UA is all warlocky, so you may get even more options.

[Oramac]

3) Turtle with a high AC using heavy armor and shield, Shield of Faith, Shield spell, and/or other AC boosters


6) High movement. You simply don't end your turn next to them, even if you provoke. Mounted combat, high fly speed, teleporting, high normal speed, etc. Even if they get an opportunity attack, at least they can't use multi-attack. You move, attack, and move away. With enough movement, flying, moving behind others, other already in melee... they can't reach you or won't want to draw all the opportunity attacks themselves. So, they only get the opportunity attack, vs. your big spell attack. This can also be used in tactics such as luring opponents a good distance away and then double-moving (or disengaging) away to aid archers or ranged parties.

7) Serious defensive spells. Mirror image, blur, blink, greater invisibility, etc.

All of this has been my approach with the Tempest Sorcerer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?493427-Tempest-Sorcerer-Tank&p=20954743#post20954743), and I have to say it's been quite effective, not to mention fun.

At 9th level, I have 20AC (+2 breastplate and shield with 14 dex) without the Shield spell and no other magic items.

I have excellent mobility via Tempestuous Magic.

I (will have) a Cloak of Displacement to become even harder to hit. (DM reward after I run Dish Best Served Cold this weekend)

I have full-caster slots, though admittedly I'm a smidge behind in spell levels known from the multiclass.

I have Cleric spells. Twinned Healing Word/Cure Wounds is truly awesome. This part of the Favored Soul UA is underrated.

Overall, it's a very fun character with a lot of control/blasting potential that can survive in melee pretty well.

[8wGremlin]

Back on topic;
I'm very happy with my human cleric (arcane) with magic initiate: druid, and War Caster.
I have Booming Blade, Shillelagh, Thornwhip, Chill touch all keyed of Wis.
I have dex 14 with medium armour and a shield.

Have used Thornwhip to pull combatants in front of me, where our dragon sorcerer has a 'create bonfire'.
using BB if he leaves my threat zone.
At 8th level I get to add my Wisdom bonus to damage to cleric cantrips! which booming blade and chill touch are!

[RickAllison]

This thread took very little time to get off topic...

Anyway, I find it odd that there's little suggestion for Warlock. Yes, Clerics and certain sorcerers have more AC, but the warlocks whole schtick is that he circumvents traditional rules.

Per example, darkness + devils sight will give your enemies disadvantage (roughly the equivalent of +3.5AC) and with the fiend patron you are very porcupine-y (fire shield, armor of agathys, hellish rebuke). Plus you get your choice of a weapon, familiar, or sweet book (in this case probably the tome). Lastly, eldrich blast is arguably the best cantrip, and works best with warlocks. Repelling blast can also push enemies away when you need to recoup, you have temp hp out the wazoo, and goodies like polymorph.

I hear the next UA is all warlocky, so you may get even more options.

As soon as caustic people like RuleJD get into the mix, threads go out the window. In such cases, one of the useful things you can do is just not respond or respond once to point out the flaws in their argument, then Ignore. Then at least there can be productive discussion.

For Warlocks, I could see that. I would like to point out their catalogue of "Oh, crap," buttons. As a semi-squishy caster, a Warlock in close combat really needs to have the ability to get out when things get too messy. Feylocks get Misty Escape (Misty Step+Invisibility), Blink (can't be effectively grappled), and a variety of ways to get enemies off of you. Misty Visions can be good for throwing enemies off your scent with an illusion, while One With Shadows lets you go invisible if you can get away. Repelling Blast is quite effective for getting any grapplers off without resources, Expeditious Retreat helps you get out of the action but there are probably better spells, and Gaseous Form performs a similar function. Add onto that the movement-enhancing options like Fly or the Levitate invocation and you have a Warlock that can effectively extricate from combat when necessary.

Then we have Fiendlock who is extremely effective in close combat, Vampiric Touch for some pain and health gain, and everything you mentioned. The Devil's Sight combo would be amazing with Vampiric Touch, you just need someone else to hold the Darkness concentration for you!

Incidentally, I now really want to play as a Feylock. They have so many fun-looking options...