how do you protect someone from harm at epic levels?

[dehro]

It's an epic campaign, we're all at 22nd-21th level and our opponents probably a good deal tougher than that.
I'm going to be playing a Dracolyte whom shall be charged with the care for a dragon wyrmling.
knowing my DM, I have a feeling that if something should happen to said wyrmling, my character would land in multiple worlds of trouble. Since this is very likely to happen and I cannot just drop the baby dragon off at daycare when I'm on some remote plane trying to save the universe from collapsing, I need to figure out a way to keep him as safe as possible during combat.
I'm a cleric of bahamut/dracolyte.
are there spells, contraptions, items or whatever else that come to mind that can protect the wyrmling? I'm thinking of the equivalent of a prismatic sphere or somesuch?
ideally he'd be safe but I'd still be able to cast and/or slap people

[Deophaun]

Flesh to stone+shrink object+hardening.

Hey, it'll be safe.

[Necroticplague]

Just keep him in whatever extradimensional storage space you have. As long as it's not open during combat, he's safe in a bubble of seperated space. I'd recommend Enveloping Pits for sheer volume, so you can make a pretty decent room in there for it.

[Uncle Pine]

How big are you and your companions? If there's a big guy around, you can buy your Sorcerer/Wizard/Spellthief a spellblade of Hoard Gullet and have him cast it on the party member with the biggest throat. Explain to the wyrmling that it's for its safety and swallow a couple of gems or marbles for it to play.

[Thaneus]

Well another, maybe more fun way, is to use psionic fusion.
Then the little one sees how the big guys fight.

But beware the Hitpoint distribution when splitting, best is to have maximum HP when the power ends.
As long as you are save it will be too.

[dehro]

uhm.. so, portable hole is probably the easiest way to handle this.. of course, the wyrmling has only so much air to breathe, so..

[Uncle Pine]

uhm.. so, portable hole is probably the easiest way to handle this.. of course, the wyrmling has only so much air to breathe, so..

You can throw a Necklace of Adaptation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#necklaceofAdaptation) into the mix.

[Celestia]

Cast Genesis and create a demiplane with a 10,000 to 1 time dilation. Then stick the dragon in there for a couple weeks, and it'll come out as a big, strong bastard that is more than capable of defending itself.

[Flickerdart]

Might just be cheaper to set up a contingent true resurrection.

[Deophaun]

Might just be cheaper to set up a contingent true resurrection.
This might not be RAI, but RAW, even if the dragon wyrmling is restored to life with nothing lost, the dracolyte still requires an atonement to progress further; the loss is contingent on the event of dying, not being dead.

[Quertus]

It's an epic campaign, we're all at 22nd-21th level and our opponents probably a good deal tougher than that.
I'm going to be playing a Dracolyte whom shall be charged with the care for a dragon wyrmling.
knowing my DM, I have a feeling that if something should happen to said wyrmling, my character would land in multiple worlds of trouble. Since this is very likely to happen and I cannot just drop the baby dragon off at daycare when I'm on some remote plane trying to save the universe from collapsing, I need to figure out a way to keep him as safe as possible during combat.
I'm a cleric of bahamut/dracolyte.
are there spells, contraptions, items or whatever else that come to mind that can protect the wyrmling? I'm thinking of the equivalent of a prismatic sphere or somesuch?
ideally he'd be safe but I'd still be able to cast and/or slap people


uhm.. so, portable hole is probably the easiest way to handle this.. of course, the wyrmling has only so much air to breathe, so..


This might not be RAI, but RAW, even if the dragon wyrmling is restored to life with nothing lost, the dracolyte still requires an atonement to progress further; the loss is contingent on the event of dying, not being dead.

Hmmm...


At 5th level, a dracolyte is entrusted with the care of a wyrmling dragon. The kind of dragon is up to the DM, but the dragon's alignment should match the dracolyte's. The wyrmling dragon follows the dracolyte loyally, and will even accompany him on adventures (though it receives no XP and can't attain new levels). If the wyrmling dies, the dracolyte cannot gain any additional dracolyte levels until he receives an atonement spell from another dracolyte or a cleric who worships a draconic deity.

So, Ring of Spell Storing + Atonement sounds like your friend. Oh, wait, you're probably a cleric who worships a draconic deity, right, and you don't lose spellcasting ability, so just keeping Atonement memorized sounds adequate as a fallback plan.

And, unless you've taken Eschew Materials --> Ignore Materials, True Resurrection is expensive, so you may want to have a cheaper fallback plan. but, honestly, you probably should just take Ignore Materials.

But how to protect it in the first place?

Portable Hole (or better) + potted plants (for air) + toys / books / "pets" (to play with or torture, depending on its alignment) is one of the most effective + least cheesy answers. But probably goes against the spirit of you raising the dragon.

Ring of 9 Lives would be an expensive answer.

Amulet of Emergency Healing / Close Wounds might help, but, at epic, probably not.

Otiluke's Telekinetic Sphere (+ potted plant for air + etc) might not be terrible. Heck, having a contingent Otiluke's Sphere has saved my signature wizard countless times. :smallcool:

Simulacrum of a wizard/sorcerer with Improved Familiar who can take the wyrmling as its familiar? Would that even work? On a related note, are there any tricks one can use to give the Dracolyte a familiar, and make said Wyrmling into the Dracolyte's familiar, to bypass the middleman?

Ring of Spell Storing + all the buffs might be handy, and, honestly, is a really good idea for buffing the party anyway. Using this technique to give the wyrmling a Contingency isn't a bad idea, either.

Ask your DM what you can get away with via Miracle. Then figure out what the best protection it would be in-character for your character to attempt to Miracle a solution for.

Polymorph Any Object shenanigans.

That's it off the top of my head. Although...


Cast Genesis and create a demiplane with a 10,000 to 1 time dilation. Then stick the dragon in there for a couple weeks, and it'll come out as a big, strong bastard that is more than capable of defending itself.

That's what my party did. :smallamused:

[Deophaun]

That's what my party did. :smallamused:
How'd it get the experience to earn the levels of dragon needed to gain the benefits of a higher age category? Especially when the ability says the wyrmling cannot gain new levels?

[dehro]

yes.. the whole idea is that I am charged with the wellbeing and safety (maybe even education?) of the creature.. resurrecting it seems like cheating.. also, it's not as readily available.. we tend to be on the move and low on resources. 10k in diamonds aren't really an everyday occurrence. Dying is much more frequent in fact, so I'll keep the diamonds for one of my party members, who might get a little miffed at me if I spend them on the dragon pet instead of on them... and atonement should be cast by another Dracolyte... which are hard to come by..
I can't just cast it upon myself.
I have precious few talents to be devoting 2 to resurrecting for free.. which is intriguing, I'll admit.. however I also have a shortage of skill points to dedicate to getting the necessary 25 ranks in spellcraft

[Quertus]

How'd it get the experience to earn the levels of dragon needed to gain the benefits of a higher age category? Especially when the ability says the wyrmling cannot gain new levels?

If only I could simply go into a coma, not gain any experience, and therefore not age. Sadly, time tends to age beings, regardless of whether they get any experience out of it. But, true, ask your DM whether the "can't gain any XP" clause overrides the concept of aging via... aging.


yes.. the whole idea is that I am charged with the wellbeing and safety (maybe even education?) of the creature.. resurrecting it seems like cheating.. also, it's not as readily available.. we tend to be on the move and low on resources. 10k in diamonds aren't really an everyday occurrence. Dying is much more frequent in fact, so I'll keep the diamonds for one of my party members, who might get a little miffed at me if I spend them on the dragon pet instead of on them... and atonement should be cast by another Dracolyte... which are hard to come by..
I can't just cast it upon myself.
I have precious few talents to be devoting 2 to resurrecting for free.. which is intriguing, I'll admit.. however I also have a shortage of skill points to dedicate to getting the necessary 25 ranks in spellcraft

Oh, ****. I forgot the prereq. Sorry about that. :smallredface:

One can get the requisite skill points through high levels of cheese, but, normally, one cannot take the feat with their level 21 bonus feat.

But, if True Resurrection is going to be commonly needed, I'll strongly recommend the feats - one now, one later. What are you using your feats on? Ahem - what are you using your feats on that could possibly be more important than saving 5k a pop for resurrection?

[MisterKaws]

Find a Prismatic Dragon and ask for help. They're probably the nicest dragons around, and relatively easy to find: just look for any small village that is oddly safe even though it's in the middle of a monster-infested region. Those guys really like peaceful villages, and they would most likely be glad to help any sort of good dragon.

You could also ask for any metallic dragon for the same thing, and they'd at least give you some tips, since it's something Bahamut himself asked of you.

[dehro]

Find a Prismatic Dragon and ask for help. They're probably the nicest dragons around, and relatively easy to find: just look for any small village that is oddly safe even though it's in the middle of a monster-infested region. Those guys really like peaceful villages, and they would most likely be glad to help any sort of good dragon.

You could also ask for any metallic dragon for the same thing, and they'd at least give you some tips, since it's something Bahamut himself asked of you.

heh... in our campaign, the prime material plane is pretty much completely devastated safe for a small number of places where they hate us because they think we are the cause of what happened (they're kinda right...).. half the other planes are enemies or severely pissed off with us for us failing a few related crucial missions and sort of accidentally slaughtering a few villages..
Celestia is about one of the few places where they don't hate us outright... mostly because we have yet to be accused of accidentally killing 2 leonals...
in fact, my new character pretty much comes from there.. a dwarven dragonborn cleric of bahamut/dracolyte.. but I'm not really in the position of asking for favours, this fresh out of the gate.
The path of the adventurer is not an easy one.

at level 21 I have 8 feats to pick..
2 are wasted to get the prerequisites for Dracolyte (dragonfriend and toughness)
then there's Spontaneous domains (because I get 3 domains so that seems sound)
Quicken spell
DMM: quicken spell

the last 3 talents are debatable..
I am trying to understand if I have to take rapid metamagic because healing and domain spells are spontaneous so if I want to quicken them I have to have it..
which would leave 2 talents.
I was thinking of getting extra turning (I have only 7 of those) and maybe steady concentration.

now, if rapid metamagic is not necessary, I could take eschew and ignore materials instead of that and of steady concentration... but I do think it is.

[Deophaun]

If only I could simply go into a coma, not gain any experience, and therefore not age. Sadly, time tends to age beings, regardless of whether they get any experience out of it. But, true, ask your DM whether the "can't gain any XP" clause overrides the concept of aging via... aging.
Dragons do not get magically more powerful just through aging. Draconomicon has rules for that: they need to actually gain levels, which means earning experience. That's what "advance through age categories" means.

Sure, they'll be a great wyrm when they emerge, with the vulnerabilities of a great wyrm (as there are effects that are more devastating against dragons based on their age categories), but they'll still only have the abilities of a wyrmling. Yay?

[Celestia]

Dragons do not get magically more powerful just through aging.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what happens. If the dragon is gaining levels through experience, then it's advancing by level. That's literally how leveling works. Advancing by age categories means gaining aging effects by growing older. A dragon could sit on a pile of treasure for 100 years and become stronger just for existing. That's what being a dragon is all about. Unless you're suggesting that burning random villages full of level 1 commoners gives enough XP for the dragon to hit level 30. Or that dragons could power level and become Great Wyrms at age four.

[Deophaun]

Actually, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what happens.
I don't care what you are pretty sure of: Draconomicon says you are wrong. Dragons need to gain levels in Dragon before they gain the benefits of their new age categories. Done. End of story.

[Uncle Pine]

Dragons do not get magically more powerful just through aging. Draconomicon has rules for that: they need to actually gain levels, which means earning experience. That's what "advance through age categories" means.

Sure, they'll be a great wyrm when they emerge, with the vulnerabilities of a great wyrm (as there are effects that are more devastating against dragons based on their age categories), but they'll still only have the abilities of a wyrmling. Yay?
The rules listed in Draconomicon 142-143 explicitly affect Dragon PCs only.

[Deophaun]

The rules listed in Draconomicon 142-143 explicitly affect Dragon PCs only.
I'm missing the word "only."

Also, you might want to bother reading the section: A dracolyte would qualify as a "dragon kindred," which puts his wyrmling companion right in the explicit wheelhouse of that section. This would be the same for dragon familiars and pretty much any other time when players are concerned with a dragon gaining levels.

[Uncle Pine]

I'm missing the word "only."
The fact that the rules concern Dragon PCs is basically reiterated in every paragraph, not to mention that the whole section is aptly named Dragons as player characters.


A very different campaign model features dragons most prominently in the game by allowing players to run dragon characters, either as a single character in a party primarily made up of standard races, or in an entire party of dragons.

In one effective campaign model, each player has two active characters in the campaign: a dragon and a member of a standard race who is bonded to the dragon as a kindred.

A dragon PC begins at a specified age [...] and gains character levels as the player wishes over the course of its adventures.

As it ages, as shown on Table 3-21: Aging for Dragon PCs, the dragon is required to devote a level every few years to its dragon "class"

Once in a while, a dragon character must advance a level without gaining a Hit Die
Etcetera.

OP isn't playing a dragon as his 2nd character, he's been saddled with one. Think of it as a housecat, except story-relevant.

[dehro]

My character is also a dragonborn, just to add to the fun debate :smallbiggrin:

[Uncle Pine]

My character is also a dragonborn, just to add to the fun debate :smallbiggrin:

You're fine (as are dragonwrought kobolds) because the tables at the end of the section details how to apply them to MM dragons, true dragons from other manuals (i.e. gem dragons), lesser dragons from other manual and guidelines for any sort of dragon not listed, which leave unscathed dragonborns and kobolds among many others. :smallwink: