Maximise Spell in 5e

[Sans.]

When you cast a spell that deals damage, you can spend 4 sorcery points to deal maximum damage with a number of the damage dice up to your Charisma modifier (minimum of one).

Thoughts?

[Specter]

Well, Empowered Spell does something a bit similar while spending only one point. If this is like the Evoker's overchannel, you could have them spend 5 points to treat every die rolled as its maximum. Very good, but very costly. And they'd have to declare the spell as maximized before casting it.

[Sans.]

I ran the numbers beforehand. Empower Spell costs 1 sorcery point and increases the damage by around 22% for the dice rerolled. Maximise Spell increases the damage by 100% for the dice rerolled, and and 100/22 is around 4.5.

5 sorcery points to maximise all the dice is overpowered: think Meteor Swarm here.

[Specter]

Maybe 1 point per level of the spell then?

[ShikomeKidoMi]

I ran the numbers beforehand. Empower Spell costs 1 sorcery point and increases the damage by around 22% for the dice rerolled. Maximise Spell increases the damage by 100% for the dice rerolled,.

Not quite 100% if you're actually rolling. Average damage on a d6 is 3.5. Six is just under double that. Similarly, 4.5 is the average on a d8, 5.5 is the average on a d10, etc.

[LordVonDerp]

When you cast a spell that deals damage, you can spend 4 sorcery points to deal maximum damage with a number of the damage dice up to your Charisma modifier (minimum of one).

Thoughts?

Seems to be stealing the storm cleric's thunder.

[MrStabby]

Seems to be stealing the storm cleric's thunder.

LOL - I see what you did there.

[Sans.]

Not quite 100% if you're actually rolling. Average damage on a d6 is 3.5. Six is just under double that. Similarly, 4.5 is the average on a d8, 5.5 is the average on a d10, etc.

Oh yes. Forgot about that. ((1.5/2.5) + (2.5/3.5) + (3.5/4.5) + (4.5/5.5)+ (5.5/6.5))/5 ~ 0.75. 0.75/0.22 ~ 3.4.

[Breashios]

When you cast a spell that deals damage, you can spend 4 sorcery points to deal maximum damage with a number of the damage dice up to your Charisma modifier (minimum of one).

Thoughts?

Ignoring everything outside of the core books, it seems about right... but unnecessary. Is there a particular feel you are going for or challenge this ability overcomes?

[Sans.]

Meh. Maximise was one of the most important metamagics in 3.5. It seemed missing from 5e.

[coredump]

Do you pick the dice before or after rolling

Ex. Cha16, cast fireball. Do I max 3 dice and roll 5. Or do I roll 8 dice and then max the lowest 3?

[Asmotherion]

When I first saw 5e, I was all for a sorcerer Maximise Spell. I was coming from 3.5e (never liked 4e), and I felt it was a must. However, quicken spell is actually much more powerfull, as it gives the sorcerer Action Economy no other caster has. It is basically the bread and butter of the Sorcerer class, and the reason I prefear Sorcerer to Wizard (slightly), despite the versality.

Also, Overchanel is not that good, at least not since they errata-ed it does not work on cantrips. It's decent, sure, but I would take Quicken over it.

[Sans.]

Do you pick the dice before or after rolling

Ex. Cha16, cast fireball. Do I max 3 dice and roll 5. Or do I roll 8 dice and then max the lowest 3?

You would choose whether to apply Maximise after the dice were rolled, similarly to Empower.

[XmonkTad]

Meh. Maximise was one of the most important metamagics in 3.5. It seemed missing from 5e.

It's around, but only as some very limited class features. It's quite powerful, especially with spells higher than 5th level. Disintegrate is the first one that comes to mind. I think it might be too much for a regular metamagic option, and probably has to carry an additional cost, like exhaustion. Or only let it apply to spells of the sorceror's associated dragon (something thematic like that).

[Sans.]

It's around, but only as some very limited class features. It's quite powerful, especially with spells higher than 5th level. Disintegrate is the first one that comes to mind. I think it might be too much for a regular metamagic option, and probably has to carry an additional cost, like exhaustion. Or only let it apply to spells of the sorceror's associated dragon (something thematic like that).

Have you actually read my version?

[coredump]

I ran the numbers beforehand. Empower Spell costs 1 sorcery point and increases the damage by around 22% for the dice rerolled. Maximise Spell increases the damage by 100% for the dice rerolled, and and 100/22 is around 4.5.
.
I am not understanding this...

You will empower your 1's and 2's (maybe 3's). You get an average of 3.5, so lets say an average change being 2 to 3.5, or a 75% increase.

Maximizing the same dice leads to 2 to 6, or a 300% increase.

Or did you mean something else?

Lets look at a 12d6 fireball Cha 18
Ave damage: 42
Emp damage: 50
Max damage: 60

8d6 fireball Cha 20
Ave damage: 28
Emp damage: 34 (only reroll 4)
Max damage: 46

Maximize also has no risk involved. You *know* it will give a better result, and you know exactly how much better.

That all said... it seems to me that maximize is pretty powerful, but 4 pts seems reasonable for that.

[Contrast]

One issue you may not have considered.

You only get 4 metamagics total and more realistically 2-3 in most games. At lower levels you aren't likely to want maximise as its too costly. Given how limited metamagics are you really shouldn't be taking both empower AND maximise. So everyone either takes maximise at level 10 or not at all seems likely and empower gets taken much less often. Something to consider.