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BananaNomNom
2017-02-07, 05:40 PM
EDIT: Feel free to post any kind of undead cr does not matter as I like making future plans.

Hello, I am a sort of new player to D&D and am currently in a campaign in 3.5 (Dread Necromancer lvl. 8), And through a feat that allows any undead creation via rituals I am at a standstill on what to make with this feat.

Feat Info

Feed the Dark Gods [Necromantic]
You have attracted the attention of dark gods and demon lords, and they are willing to grant dark life to your creations in exchange for pain and power.
Prerequisite: Any two Necromantic feats, Character Level 7, 10 ranks in Knowledge (Religion)
Benefit: You may create any undead creature through the art of sacrifice. For every CR of the creature you wish to create, you must sacrifice one sentient soul (Int of 5 or better) and 500 gp. For example, if you wish to create a CR 8 Slaughterwight, you must sacrifice eight sentients and 4,000 gp. You cannot create any undead with a CR greater than two less than your character level. You automatically control up to your unmodified Charisma modifier in undead created by this feat, but no undead can have a CR greater than two less than your character level.

Allowed Books

Core Rulebooks (SRD/PH/DMG)
Generic Settings (Sandstorm, Cityscape, et al)
PH2 & DMG 2
Spell Compendium
Rules Compendium
Magic Item Compendium
Completes (including the extended completes)
Expanded Psionics
Races of Books
Tome of Battle & Tome of Magic
Heroes of Battle & Heroes of Horror
Arms and Equipment, Stronghold Builder’s Guidebook
Libris Mortis
Monsters Manual 1 - 5
Miniatures Handbook
Dragon books (Dragon Compendium, Dragon Magic, Draconomicon, etc)
Unearthed Arcana


Any suggestions would be amazing.

OldTrees1
2017-02-07, 06:48 PM
Wow. That feat is nice. For a moment I was going to write it off as one of those "creation without control" but it remembered to grant control at the very end.

You are going to have a handful of these undead and they are limited by CR rather than by HD(rebuke undead) or mindless(Command Undead spell). This means you have a small number of strong utility undead. So the question is:

What roles/positions do you want these undead to fill?


Personally I would want
1 Incorporeal scouting undead: Incorporeal undead with Lifesense(Libris Mortis) feat

Avoid if this would overshadow a party member
Wraith(CR 5, SRD) would be good IF your DM will remove the create spawn ability
Shadow(CR 3, SRD) also remove the spawn, use if wraith's daylight powerlessness is too big a hassle
1 Slaymate (CR 2, Libris Mortis, helps you use metamagic on necromancy)
2 Bodyguard undead: (Large undead with Knockback(Races of Stone feat), Combat Reflexes, and Improved Trip)

Avoid if this would overshadow a party member
Boneclaw(CR 5, Monster Manual 3) look ideal

BananaNomNom
2017-02-07, 07:13 PM
Great suggestion really helped.

Mainly I'm looking for undead that provide buffs or have some niche abilities that help out in combat sometimes. as I have "Bruiser" undead covered.

frogglesmash
2017-02-07, 07:30 PM
Where's that feat from? Is it homebrew?

BananaNomNom
2017-02-07, 07:30 PM
Where's that feat from? Is it homebrew?

Yes it is. Pre-DM approved

Coidzor
2017-02-09, 12:19 AM
One thing to consider is Brain-in-a-jars (Brains-in-jars?), because IIRC, they have a Command Undead pool through Rebuking/Commanding.

Another is to look for any kind of creature that has an Animate Dead or Command Undead SLA and make them into undead that use a template the retains SLAs.

If you can get ahold of some Rakshasas or Glouras or various forms of Celestial, those can be fun when made into an undead that retains racial spellcasting.

BananaNomNom
2017-02-09, 07:19 AM
One thing to consider is Brain-in-a-jars (Brains-in-jars?), because IIRC, they have a Command Undead pool through Rebuking/Commanding.

Another is to look for any kind of creature that has an Animate Dead or Command Undead SLA and make them into undead that use a template the retains SLAs.

If you can get ahold of some Rakshasas or Glouras or various forms of Celestial, those can be fun when made into an undead that retains racial spellcasting.

Oh my it just so happens that in our current campaign we are locating a Rakshasa. That will be up on the list then.

Heliomance
2017-02-09, 07:26 AM
Slaymate. Definitely a Slaymate. Every necromancer in the world wants a Slaymate, but there's no given way of making them. Get a Slaymate.

Segev
2017-02-09, 03:05 PM
People are saying this feat is nice, but...the gp value just seems way too expensive for what you're getting. It's comparable to construct and golem values, and those don't require the "steeped in evil" sacrifices and are vulnerable to less than undead tend to be.

Zanos
2017-02-09, 03:10 PM
People are saying this feat is nice, but...the gp value just seems way too expensive for what you're getting. It's comparable to construct and golem values, and those don't require the "steeped in evil" sacrifices and are vulnerable to less than undead tend to be.
It gives you a means of creating any undead, some of which have no method of being created normally otherwise, and you can automatically control (CL-2)*Cha Mod worth of undead creatures created that way.

It's expensive, yes, but it opens up many, many creatures to an enterprising necromancer. I believe undead is the single most populated creature type across all the books.

Segev
2017-02-09, 03:18 PM
It gives you a means of creating any undead, some of which have no method of being created normally otherwise, and you can automatically control (CL-2)*Cha Mod worth of undead creatures created that way.

It's expensive, yes, but it opens up many, many creatures to an enterprising necromancer. I believe undead is the single most populated creature type across all the books.

I often lament the difficulty of actually obtaining undead of interesting types. The trouble is that this is just so expensive that you're probably going to see them die rapidly by the time you can afford them. You're generally better off with golems at these prices.

Zanos
2017-02-09, 03:32 PM
I often lament the difficulty of actually obtaining undead of interesting types. The trouble is that this is just so expensive that you're probably going to see them die rapidly by the time you can afford them. You're generally better off with golems at these prices.
Unless there's some powerful and cheap niche golem I'm not aware of, I think you've forgotten just how inflated golem prices are.

Flesh Golem: 20k/CR 7= 2857gp per CR
Clay Golem: 40k/CR 10 = 4000gp per CR
Stone Golem: 90k/CR 11 = 8181gp per CR
Iron Golem: 150k/CR 13 = 11538gp per CR

Undead also usually have the benefit of having pretty inflated HD for their CR. Not unusual for an undead creature to have a single digit CR and 20 or more HD.

OldTrees1
2017-02-09, 03:35 PM
I often lament the difficulty of actually obtaining undead of interesting types. The trouble is that this is just so expensive that you're probably going to see them die rapidly by the time you can afford them. You're generally better off with golems at these prices.

I don't agree, probably due to different usage expectations.

Slaymate (we might already agree about this one so I am not going to rely on it)
Wraith = 2500gp So for the cost of a +1 weapon you get an incorporeal scout

Boneclaws (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040905a&page=2) (also just 2500gp) are the closest analog to golems from my suggestions. Compared to the golems in the SRD they are cheaper per point of CR. Additionally they have enough hp (Unholy Toughness) that they can fall back to be used another day(as you would also do with golems).

However I was comparing to the SRD golems which is a bit unfair since, while Wraith is in the SRD, my closest analog was from MM3. What are some of the golems you would buy for 2500gp-5000gp?

Quertus
2017-02-09, 04:07 PM
What are some of the golems you would buy for 2500gp-5000gp?

Advanced HD Bogun? Probably to cheap. Really, really advanced HD Bogun?

Coidzor
2017-02-09, 04:52 PM
Finally, a chance to show off some of the knowledge I've wasted time acquiring over the month of January when I became obsessed with constructs.

Various Constructs and their GP/HD and GP/CR ratios:


Monster Manual 1:


Homunculus: 525 gp/HD ratio base, 1,050 gp/CR ratio base. 1,509 gp/HD ratio advanced to the (soft?) limit of 6 HD. Can't recall the CR of a Homunculus with 6 HD offhand, though.

Shield Guardian: ~5,667 gp/HD ratio, 7,500 gp/CR ratio.

Clay Golem: ~1,955 gp/HD ratio, 2,150 gp/CR ratio. Permanent Berserk chance risk.

Flesh Golem: ~1,167 gp/HD ratio, 1,500 gp/CR ratio. Non-permanent Berserk chance risk.

Iron Golem: ~4,445 gp/HD ratio, ~6,154 gp/CR ratio.

Stone Golem: ~3,572 gp/HD ratio, ~4,546 gp/CR ratio.


Monster Manual 2:


Bogun: 525 gp/HD ratio base, 1,050 gp/CR ratio base. 509 gp/HD ratio when advanced to the (soft?) limit of 6 HD. Similar to Homunculi, I can't recall the new CR of a 6 HD version offhand.

Bronze Serpent: ~2,907 gp/HD ratio, 4,650 gp/CR ratio.

Dread Guard: ~612 gp/HD ratio, ~1,530 gp/CR ratio.

Juggernaut: ~4,167 gp/HD ratio, ~6,819 gp/CR ratio.

Nimblewright: 1,850 gp/HD ratio, ~2,643 gp/CR ratio.

Runic Guardian: ~5736 gp/HD ratio. I seem to have mistakenly omitted the CR for a Runic Guardian, so it's 97,500/CR for that ratio.

Brass Golem: ~2,114 gp/HD ratio, 3,382 gp/CR ratio. Kinda weird pricing given it says that that the creation cost already includes a +3 Wounding Greataxe, but the cost of such a greataxe is actually greater than the creation cost of the golem.

Dragonflesh Golem: ~3,084 gp/HD ratio, ~7,116 gp/CR ratio.

Stained Glass Golem: 1,250 gp/HD ratio, 3,000 gp/CR ratio.


Monster Manual 3:


Golems:

Alchemical Golem: ~1,637 gp/HD ratio, ~3,273 gp/CR ratio.

Gloom Golem: ~3,125 gp/HD ratio, ~3,572 gp/CR ratio.

Hangman Golem: ~4,035 gp/HD ratio, ~5,587 gp/CR ratio.

Mud Golem: 2,200 gp/HD ratio, 3,000 gp/CR ratio.

Prismatic Golem: 7,500 gp/HD ratio, ~8,334 gp/CR ratio.

Shadesteel Golem: ~3,889 gp/HD ratio, ~6,364 gp/CR ratio.

Web Golem: 3,000 gp/HD ratio, ~4,715 gp/CR ratio.


Non-Golems:

Grisgol: ~5,790 gp/HD ratio, ~7,334 gp/CR ratio.

Shredstorm: ~3,572 gp/HD ratio, 6,250 gp/CR ratio.

Slaughterstone Behemoth: ~3,104 gp/HD ratio, 6,000 gp/CR ratio.

Slaughterstone Eviscerator: ~4,500 gp/HD ratio, 5,625 gp/CR ratio.

Topiary Guardian(Medium): 20,800/HD, 20,800/CR+1(or CR 3)

Topiary Guardian(Large): 62,400/HD, 62,400/CR+1(or CR 7)

Topiary Guardian(Huge): 119,600/HD, 119,600/CR+1(or CR 12)

Topiary Guardians vary based upon the base Animal chosen, like a Legendary Ape or a Dungeonbred Titanic Toad.


Monster Manual 4:


Clockroach: 1,075 gp/HD and gp/CR ratio.

Clockwork Mender: 1,250 gp/HD ratio. CR 1/2 so 2,500 gp/CR ratio(?).

Clockwork Steed: ~192 gp/HD ratio, ~384 gp/CR ratio. This goes for both Stallions and Ponies.

Fang Golem: 1,000 gp/HD ratio, ~1,334 gp/CR ratio.


Monster Manual 5:


Force Golem: ~7,813 gp/HD ratio and gp/CR ratio. Can be dropped somewhat by making the 2,000 gp molds one's self.

Magmacore Golem: ~4,913 gp/HD ratio and gp/CR ratio. Can be dropped somewhat to ~4,638 by crafting the MW full plate one's self.

Shardsoul Slayer: ~6,834 gp/HD ratio, 8,200 gp/CR ratio. (~2,278 and ~2,734 respectively, considering they're made in batches of 3)

Scouring Slinger: ~1,393 gp/HD ratio, 3,250 gp/CR ratio. Grow disposable Sligner Scorpion constructs that last for 24 hours.

Scouring Stanchion: ~1,750 gp/HD ratio, ~2,917 gp/CR ratio.




Arms and Equipment Guide:


Equine Golem: ~3,334 gp/HD ratio, 4,000 gp/CR ratio.


Cityscape


Siege Golem: ~3,500 gp/HD ratio, ~4,667 gp/CR ratio.


Draconomicon:


Drakestone Golem: ~2,715 gp/HD ratio, ~6,334 gp/CR ratio.

Dragonbone Golem: 3,000 gp/HD ratio, 5,000 gp/CR ratio.

Ironwyrm Golem: 3,125 gp/HD ratio, 7,353 gp/CR ratio.


Drow of the Underdark:


Adamantine Spider: ~1,363 gp/HD ratio, ~1,817 gp/CR ratio.


Epic Level Handbook:


Flesh Colossus: 7,600 gp/HD ratio, ~28,149 gp/CR ratio. Without a ghost or spirit in it.

Iron Colossus: ~10,417 gp/HD ratio, 30,304 gp/CR ratio.

Stone Colossus: ~11,875 gp/HD ratio, ~31,667 gp/CR ratio.

Adamantine Golem: ~9,260 gp/HD ratio, 20,000 gp/CR ratio.

Mithral Golem: ~6,945 gp/HD ratio, ~11,905 gp/CR ratio.


Expanded Psionics Handbook:


Psion-Killer: ~5,257 gp/HD ratio, ~6,584 gp/CR ratio.


Fiend Folio:


Blood Golem of Hextor: 5,000 gp/HD ratio, 6,250 gp/CR ratio. Ratios can be adjusted by making the magic armor and masterwork weapons for the golem one's self.

Brain Golem: ~4,584 gp/HD ratio, 5,500 gp/CR ratio.

Demonflesh Golem: ~5,417 gp/HD ratio, ~7,223 gp/CR ratio.

Hellfire Golem: 6,250 gp/HD ratio, ~7,353 gp/CR ratio.

Blackstone Gigant: 6,250 gp/HD ratio, ~11,112 gp/CR ratio.

Caryatid Column: ~3,334+X/6 gp/HD ratio and gp/CR ratio. X being the cost of the magic weapon used to make it. Cheapest magic weapon would increase the ratio by ~183.

Iron Cobra: 10,000 gp/HD ratio and gp/CR ratio.

Maug: 5,000 gp/HD ratio, ~3,334 gp/CR ratio. This is for the base version before class levels.

Necrophidius: 2,500 gp/HD ratio and gp/CR ratio.

Wickerman: ~5,834 gp/HD ratio, ~6,364 gp/CR ratio.


Fiendish Codex II:


Hellfire Engine: ~4,546 gp/HD ratio, ~10,527 gp/CR ratio.



Frostburn:


Ice Golem: ~2,667 gp/HD ratio, ~3,556 gp/CR ratio.


Heroes of Battle:


Brass Steed: 1,250 gp/HD ratio and gp/CR ratio.


Heroes of Horror:


Cadaver Golem: 1,575 gp/HD ratio, ~1,969 gp/CR ratio.


Libris Mortis:

Grave Dirt Golem: ~1,660 gp/HD ratio, ~2,028 gp/CR ratio. Permanent Berserk chance risk.

Tombstone Golem: 5,000 gp/HD ratio, ~5,385 gp/CR ratio. Stone Golem with a different SLA.


Lords of Madness:


Elder Eidolon: Template, cost varies based on size and number of HD. Essentially a version of Effigy Creatures with a few special abilities.


Magic of Incarnum:


Incarnum Golem: 2,500 gp/HD ratio, 2,750 gp/CR ratio.


Sandstorm:


Sand Golem: 1,500 gp/HD ratio, 2,250 gp/CR ratio.


Stormwrack:


Coral Golem: ~4,875 gp/HD ratio, ~8,667 gp/CR ratio.


Complete Arcane:

Effigy Creature: Template, cost varies based on size and number of HD. Essentially a version of Elder Eidolon without a couple of special abilities.


Complete Divine:


Bogun: 3.5 days to HD ratio, 7 days to CR ratio.


Complete Warrior:


Spark Guardian: 3,500 gp/HD ratio, ~2,334 gp/CR ratio.

Gauntlet Guardian: 2,875 gp/HD ratio and gp/CR ratio.

Blade Guardian: 2,250 gp/HD ratio, 3,000 gp/CR ratio.


Something's Cooking:

Calzone Golem: ~1,667 gp/HD ratio, ~3,334 gp/CR ratio.





Eberron Campaign Setting:


Dedicated Wright: 2,100 gp/HD ratio, 4,200 gp/CR ratio(CR is 1/2).

Expeditious Messenger: 3,300 gp/HD ratio(HD is 1/2), 4,950 gp/CR ratio(CR is 1/3).

Furtive Filcher: 1,550 gp/HD ratio, 3,100 gp/CR ratio(CR is 1/2).

Iron Defender: 625 gp/HD, 1,250 gp/CR ratio.


Five Nations:


Silvereye Marauder: ~7,223 gp/HD ratio, 8125 gp/CR ratio.


Forge of War:


Arcane Ballista: ~6,167 gp/HD ratio, 7,400 gp/CR ratio.

Umbral Spy: ~3,667 gp/HD ratio and gp/CR ratio.


Magic of Eberron:


Arbalester: 1,250 gp/HD ratio, 2,500 gp/CR ratio(CR is 1/2).

Packmate: 630 gp/HD ratio, 1,260 gp/CR ratio.

Persistent Harrier: 625 gp/HD ratio, 1,250 gp/CR ratio.


Secrets of Xen'drik:


Alchemy Beetle: 2,000 gp/HD ratio and gp/CR ratio.





City of the Spider Queen:


Spiderstone Golem: ~4,445 gp/HD ratio, I lack the CR for them, alas. Has some manner of berserk chance too, can't recall if permanent or not.

Jade Spider: ~3,334 gp/HD ratio, ~5,715 gp/CR ratio.


City of Splendors: Waterdeep:


Guardgoyle: 1,250 gp/HD ratio and gp/CR ratio.

Scaladar: ~2,143 gp/HD ratio, 1,875 gp/CR ratio. Not counting the 2,000 gp ring of Trobriand or the artifact ring version thereof that they all need to be attuned to in order to be controlled.

Walking Statue of Waterdeep: ~4,688 gp/HD ratio, ~8,334 gp/CR ratio.


Lost Empires of Faerun:


Crawling Claw: ~1,850 gp/HD ratio, 4,625 gp/CR ratio. Is a swarm.

Helmed Horror: ~3,012 gp/HD ratio, ~4,894 gp/CR ratio.

Battle Horror: ~3,833 gp/HD ratio, ~6,388 gp/CR ratio.

Tomb Tapper: Interestingly has no listed creation cost but does list a 10,000 gp material cost if anyone wants to extrapolate from their 16 HD and CR 13.


Monstrous Compendium: Monsters of Faerun:


Crawling Claw: Created individually via the 3rd level spell Create Crawling Claw, which seems to lack a control cap, IIRC.

Emerald Golem: ~5,834 gp/HD ratio and gp/CR ratio. Naturally intelligent golem.

Diamond Golem: ~5,358 gp/HD ratio, 6,250 gp/CR ratio. Naturally intelligent golem.

Ruby Golem: 6,500 gp/HD ratio, ~5,910 gp/CR ratio. Naturally intelligent golem.

Thayan Goelm: ~1,429 gp/HD ratio, 1,250 gp/CR ratio. Ratios may actually be lower due to the market price possibly being price gouging. Not actually golems, proper.


Serpent Kingdoms:


Serpentflesh Golem: ~955 gp/HD ratio, ~1,313 gp/CR ratio. Lacks the regular flesh golem's berserk chance.


Shadodale: The Scouring of the Land:

Snake Head and Shadow Simulacrum seem to be creatable, but I haven't been able to get access to confirm their details. Shadow Simulacrum seems to be a template, so it'd vary anyway.



Far Corners of the World:

Monsters of the Deep Underdark:

Sickstone Golem: 5,000 gp/HD ratio, 8,000 gp/CR ratio.


Monster Mayhem:


Coal Golem: ~5,910 gp/HD ratio, 6,500 gp/CR ratio. Has a berserk chance, but non-permanent, IIRC.

Razor Golem: 5,000 gp/HD ratio, ~6,667 gp/CR ratio.


Random Encounters:


Gold Golem: 10,000 gp/HD ratio, ~14,286 gp/CR ratio.


Psionic Bestiary: http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psb/20040123c


Sardorian Golem: ~3,167 gp/HD ratio, ~6,334 gp/CR ratio.

Psi-Guardian: ~8,334 gp/HD ratio, ~13,889 gp/CR ratio. (I believe uses 3.0 pricing)

Tether Hound: Created using the Create Tether Hound power, and is basically a very specialized advanced Astral Construct. Limited radius they can move to and act within.



Advanced HD Bogun? Probably to cheap. Really, really advanced HD Bogun?

It is only 500 gp per additional HD, if you're using the one that costs money.

Otherwise it's, like... 3.5 days per HD using the free version?

Zanos
2017-02-09, 05:11 PM
Oh geez that's thorough. Thanks for the list.

I obviously don't know how good those constructs are off the top of my head, and CR isn't the end all be all for usefulness but...every construct on that list is more than 500 gp per CR except for the clockwork steed.

Coidzor
2017-02-09, 05:36 PM
Oh geez that's thorough. Thanks for the list.

I obviously don't know how good those constructs are off the top of my head, and CR isn't the end all be all for usefulness but...every construct on that list is more than 500 gp per CR except for the clockwork steed.

Yeah, that's where a lot of my late December and Early to Mid January went. Went a lot faster after I realized that the WOTC monster list was still available in the archive.

Actually caught a few errors I'd made as a result of going through the list to make that post, too.

I was primarily concerned with the number of HD and the cost to make them intelligent if they weren't already for feat-based shenanigans, so I don't have much to offer that the Mechonomicon hasn't already about their combat capabilities.

You're more than welcome, though. I'm just glad to actually find a use for it, because I've seriously stalled out on the guide I gathered the info for.

BananaNomNom
2017-02-09, 05:40 PM
The thread is a bit off topic it seems, Maybe a bit more undead please?
I love constructs though don't get me wrong.

Coidzor
2017-02-09, 05:48 PM
The thread is a bit off topic it seems, Maybe a bit more undead please?
I love constructs though don't get me wrong.

Plague Walkers have no control cap and any spellcaster can make them that can cast *any* necromancy spells. They cost 800 gp, a few corpses, and 2 days of creation.

More expensive than skeletons and zombies by HD, but cheaper than basically anything short of Tiny Animated Objects using Pathfinder rules to make Animated Objects.

They're also intelligent(but not by much), and IIRC you can choose what disease they carry so you always have a source of that disease around for whatever purpose.

They're from Monster Manual 4, IIRC.

Plague Walker: Medium, 6 HD, Int 4 Wis 13 Cha 3. CR 3. Undead, any caster of 6th level or higher with any necromancy spells can spend 800 gp, several corpses and 2 days to make. Diseased. No apparent control cap. (134 gp/HD ratio)

I believe that means that any 6 HD+ lieutenants you have with a Necromancy spell or SLA can also spend two days and make their own Plague Walker.

I leave it as an exercise to the reader to figure out where to acquire lots of corpses.

Segev
2017-02-09, 06:04 PM
Fair; I may have been under-estimating costs of constructs.

Jack_Simth
2017-02-09, 06:11 PM
Great suggestion really helped.

Mainly I'm looking for undead that provide buffs or have some niche abilities that help out in combat sometimes. as I have "Bruiser" undead covered.Necropolitans. It's a +0 CR template, and gets you classed critters. Get yourself a cleric, Wizard, Druid, or whatever, two levels lower than you.
Ghosts. It's a +2 CR template, and gets you classed critters. Very good for sneaks. If you reach sufficiently high level, they also always respawn for you.
As noted: Slaymate. Really handy to have.

OldTrees1
2017-02-09, 06:13 PM
The thread is a bit off topic it seems, Maybe a bit more undead please?
I love constructs though don't get me wrong.

You never did answer what roles you might want these undead to fill. That might help narrow our search.

Coidzor
2017-02-09, 06:20 PM
The Collection of Necromantic Oddities (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=181.0) contains several Undead that you can technically make but wouldn't have a way to control without Rebuking and probably pumping it up, too.

This method would also provide access to some of the ones that are way too weak to be relevant at the level one can cast Create Undead or Create Greater Undead and make them.

Some of the Ghostwalk undead seem fairly interesting.

Deathsheads are a way to have a constant Dominate Person up, with the creature loyal to you constantly puppeteering the dominated creature, with the advantages and drawbacks inherent in that.

Juju Zombie retain class levels, IIRC. Bone and Corpse Creatures seem to be of interest for similar reasons. As do Necropolitans. Great way to make a former BBEG or one of their lieutenants into your minion, but competes with Animate Dread Warrior(+Spell-stitched)

Mohrgs are great for making zombies with more than 20 HD that aren't Dragon Zombies. But you can probably go ahead and just get one with Command Undead or something.

Cursts are harder to kill than Dread Warriors, so that might be a template to look into as well.

Spectral Mages and Bonesingers could be neat for Wizards/Sorcerers and Bards respectively.

BananaNomNom
2017-02-09, 06:41 PM
You never did answer what roles you might want these undead to fill. That might help narrow our search.

Mainly some niche useful abilities and maybe some that buff other undead.

Efrate
2017-02-09, 06:55 PM
Spellstiched on any undead is great, give them animate dead as a sla and you can start making armies. Slaymate has been mentioned. Id look heavily at templates. Dracolich is very nice.

Jack_Simth
2017-02-09, 07:12 PM
Ah yes, Curst. Great for adding to anything you expect to risk in melee (rogues, Fighters), but not so great for the stuff you'd want in the back (Wizards, Clerics). +1 CR, you'll seldom have to replace them.

So... Regular zombies for bruisers, Curst Rogues for melee Skillmonkey minions, Ghost Bards for scouts (nice +8 racial bonus to relevant skills, +2 CR, and incorporeality - they can cast Invisibility), Necropolitan for Caster/buffers (no CR adjustment, so highest casting - Wizard, Cleric, Requiem Bard). Also: Get a Slaymate.

Coidzor
2017-02-10, 09:01 PM
Spellstiched on any undead is great, give them animate dead as a sla and you can start making armies.

Best of all, you can add it to the undead *after* you create them and probably not have it count against the CR limit for control.

Similarly the Evolved Undead template combined with a Fast Time plane might be of interest, especially for a critter with Unholy Toughness. The Fast Healing will stack with the boot full of Black Sand they all should have, too.