OOC: Town Elections

[Draken]

Good day my good townies! It's me, Draken, the first and only twelve-headed wizard of the Town.

Cuting the giberish. As you (most of you) know, three council members (Fenric, Vael and Deadly) have declined their positions, so that means there are three open seats that must be filled. Also, two other council members (Necropaladin and Sophistemon) are missing, our mayor (wxdruid) is still active, and council member Exachix, even if he isn't posting that much here, showed up a few times last week.

This thread is meant to choose (more) candidates for these 3 (maybe 5) seats, it works in a simple way described in the #9 post of this thread:

Welcome to the Town (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28740)
Also:
1- It seens to have been aproved. Everyone can nominate up to two candidates.
2- Once you have made your nominations you have up to 48 hours to change them. This means, those who made the nominations at the Town Hall thread some weeks ago can NOT change then now.

There are four apointed candidates so far, and a few ones with some nominations, as listed bellow:


Candidates: Draken, LordVader, Rex Idiotarum, Artemis97, blackout, Bookboy, J_Muller
----------------------
Two nominations: - Raistlin
----------------------
One nomination: Sneak, thehothead, Khaldan
----------------------
Not to be nominated due to political recess: Atreyu, The Masked Llama
----------------------
NOT to be nominated at all: Nightwing


Also, a list of who nominated who:


Raistlin1040 - Sneak /
Bookboy - Rex / Raistlin
Nightwing - Bookboy /
thehothead - Draken /
Dartonus - thehothead /
Draken - J_Muller /
blackout - Draken / Khaldan
Cathrindir - LordVader /
J_Muller -
Vespe Ratavo - blackout /
Destro yersul - J_Muller /
The Randomizer - LordVader /
Meynolds - LordVader /
LordVader - Draken / Bookboy
Rex Idiotarum - Artemis97 /
Artemis97 - Rex idiotarum / J_Muller
Khaldan - blackout / Rex Idiotarum
Metakirb - Artemis97 /
Admiral_Kelly - Artemis97 /
dndnerd - blackout / Bookboy
PirateMonk - Raistlin /


Also, some of the candidates are deciding to turn the Council IC as well as OCC, so vote people, or the ghosts of K.N.A.V.E.S. will rise by the comand of... Well, of someone.

-------------------------

Indications are now closed. Candidates are bolded.

[blackout]

I personally think Sneak needs more nominations. He's perfect for the job.

[Draken]

But he disapeared again =/

[Rex Idiotarum]

Whatever, I nominate Artemis97.

[Artemis97]

Like I said in the other thread, I'm throwing my hat into the ring. I'd be happy to have the votes needed to get a nomination. Thanks. :smallsmile:

[Khaldan]

*shamelessly nominates blackout*

And ill toss my hat in, not that ill get the 3 nominations thoguh.

[blackout]

Ok, whoa, rewind, wha? Someone voted for me? :smallconfused:

[Rex Idiotarum]

Tosses hat in, and seconds Blackout's

[blackout]

:smallannoyed: Ok, I can tell that's a mind trick, right there, Rex. But thanks, I guess. Same to Khaldan.

[Khaldan]

Oh some on, isnt it possbile that i wanted to nominate someone and pick the person with two nominations? or is that beyond my feeble brain?

[Draken]

Each player can nominate somebody else once, they cannot nominate themselves

Rex, you must choose between Artemis and blackout.

Also, I can't nominate Artemis because i already nominated J_Muller, I could drop his nominaiton but that wouldn't sound right.

[blackout]

Well, I'm nominated, I guess. I'm in the race, now. :smallamused:

[Artemis97]

err...Rex, Blackout has his three nominations. on the other hand you and I still need three. Trade?

[blackout]

Hey, Draken, I kind of forgot who I nominated awhile back. Who'd I nominate? :smallconfused:

[Rex Idiotarum]

There are three seat available. My Ideal situation would be Artemis, who is a good, and holds many of my beliefs in restoring the town, Me, who will work to make sure the Town is upheld, and Blackout to keep me in check. How complicated is that?

If I can only nominate one for these three seats, Artemis is the one I'll have to go with.

[blackout]

Keep you in check? Is that honestly neccessary? I mean, your doing just fine. Everyone in town likes ya, and IC, you seem too good with words to even think of opposing. Why do you need ME to keep you in check? :smallconfused:

[Draken]

Because he is chaotic evil.

[Rex Idiotarum]

Well, yes, you never heard of a Triumvirate?

[blackout]

Seemed pretty lawful to me. :smallannoyed:

[Artemis97]

Thanks Rex, and in return I nominate you as well. We agree that the town needs to get back to where it once was. There has to be some sort of structure, basically I want to get the police back up and running, so that when someone walks up and attacks you, or kills an NPC there will be consequences. I want to reinstate the rules as they were written. We've gotten away from those, and I want to steer us back onto the right path. So those are my issues, Vote for me, and I've nominated Rex.

[blackout]

Still wondering who I voted for awhile back. :smallconfused:

Edit: Ah, well, whoever I voted for, sorry, but I'm withdrawing that vote. Artemis ftw. :smallsmile:

[Artemis97]

Found it: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17640&page=37

[blackout]

:smallconfused: Oh. So, how many votes does draken have, now that he's minus my nomination?

[Draken]

Yes, I was looking back a bit and found out something...

Many people gave two nominations, so I sugest that we change it so that everyone has the right to make two nominations.

[blackout]

Ok, I like that idea.

[Khaldan]

*nominates artemis IF we allow a 2nd nomination.*
*wants nomination badly*

that better?

[blackout]

Whoa, Khaldan, slow down. We haven't actually decided to give everyone a second chance to nominate someone. If you nominate Artemis right now, you pull me out of the race.

Edit in response to Khaldan's edit: Perfect. :smallsmile:

[metakirb]

I think i'll nominate.... Artemis

[Nightwing]

I vote Artemis! She upholds all that was good about what the town was and is!

[Admiral_Kelly]

I vote Artemis as well since I agree with her on the police issue; you shouldn't have players doing stupid things all the time such as *walks into Trog's* *kills random NPC* but here's a question I pose to the candidates:

Will privatized police forces such as DELTA become illegal? Technically, there are no laws against it.

EDIT: Also, will rules be made against metagameing? I'm sick of people making their charachters say things like "Never mind him, he's just an NPC." or "Hey, we should go back to the days when we had plots and charachter development." Unless you are doing something for humorous effect, do not metagame, period.

[Draken]

Ok... Now Artemis got... Damn hell, 5 indications...

Rex, blackout, Khaldan, Metakirb, Admiral_Kelly.

If any two of you want to change the nomination, fell free.

----------------------------------

AK: Speaking about "PC" and "NPC" is not metagaming, it's roughtly the same thing that is done in The Order of the Stick. The characters know they live under the rules of some kind of "game". Metagaming is when you use OOC information IC with no good explanation. The "PC" and "NPC" thing come up a lot in Trog's because there is a place for fun, but be sure, in more serious threads (plots, events, etc) it probably doesn't come up a lot because there is no real time to speak about it.

Also, AK. I didn't want to come up with this point but please, read this:


The Forum Rules
Major Infractions
Vigilante Modding
If you’re not a Moderator, don’t act like one. Rich has selected a few people he trusts to keep an eye on conversations here. Please refrain from chastising other posters over breaking the rules, especially concerning minor things. The proper response when you see someone breaking these rules is to report the post as discussed above or to a PM to the local Moderator. At most, you may courteously link to this thread. But whatever you do, do not tell other posters what to do, what rules they have broken, that they are "spamming", etc. Posters who do so excessively will be issued an Infraction for their actions.


Yes, I know you didn't do it in this thread, but you did sometimes.

[Artemis97]

Wow... I really appreciate the support everyone, but I only need three indications. If two of yould like to change your vote, I'd suggest supporting Rex, yes he is the leader of AMEN, but he and I are on the same page when it comes to the rules. Thanks. :smallsmile:

[Admiral_Kelly]

I disagree with you, Draken, for how is there anyway of a charachter discerning between a PC and an NPC? Metagameing is also having your charachter have knowledge that he is in a roleplaying game.

Not trying to steer off-topic, but I never try to act like a mod. I do try to remind people of the rules often but is not the same thing. I've always hated that rule since it prevents one forum member from helping another; either it should be laxed or abolished in my opinion.

[Khaldan]

well, we can always start a magtok award for the town..
*drops artemis's nominate to nominate rex in hope for a nomination*

[Lord Magtok]

well, we can always start a magtok award for the town..

Speaking of that lovable cyborg, why hasn't anyone voted for him? He's always played fair, brought political turmoil and excitement back to the Town, and has gotten absolutely nothing in return.


I'd suggest supporting Rex, yes he is the leader of AMEN, but he and I are on the same page when it comes to the rules. Thanks.

Not for long, if things go according to plan. Mehehehehehe...

[Artemis97]

Magtok, You've been nominated already. We aren't into the actually voting just yet. We need to appoint people to run the voting and send PMs and all that. One step at a time, my cybernetic friend.

[LordVader]

Not for long, if things go according to plan. Mehehehehehe...
I guess you really couldn't expect an organization called AMEN to follow someone without question.:smalltongue:

[Lord Magtok]

...Oh. Whoops. :smallredface:

Well people kept talking about voting, so I kinda assumed...


I guess you really couldn't expect an organization called AMEN to follow someone without question.

He only became leader because he called dibs on the position before I could, shortly after our founder left. I've been stuck with the position of ****ing second-in-command since ****ing winter! I deserved that job, Rex! Me, not you! :smallfurious:

[blackout]

:smalleek: Uh....whoa.

[LordVader]

I just realized, I'm like the oldest member (in terms of join date) here. It's kinda scary.:smalleek: And some anger management will do you good, man.:smallwink:

[Lord Magtok]

I was just joking around. I'm still gonna get you, Rex.

And I've been here longer, so :smalltongue: .

[LordVader]

Been where longer? Town? Yeah. And if we get two nominations, I nominate Bookboy as well. ONLY if we get two.

[blackout]

Uh, actually, no you haven't. You came after me. :smalltongue: No, no, don't nominate Bookboy! :smalleek: Last thing everyone needs is more competition.

((Kidding. :smalltongue: ))

[Khaldan]

But i already have around 3 or 4 different sets of people trying to kill me.. Do i win an award for that?

[LordVader]

...Town's Most Wanted, maybe.:smalltongue:

[Khaldan]

Was hoping for a 'most hated in the shortest amount of time' type thing, i've only been here for around 4 days.

[Artemis97]

I don't know, my character Raril may have you beat as Most Wanted. I think it's a town hobby to try and kidnap the poor Drow. But to get back on topic: It's been mentioned that J_Muller hasn't been around recently either, should he be removed from the list. Of course, send a few PMs or something to be certain, he might just be on vacation for all we know.

[blackout]

:smallconfused: Well, he hasn't been online for days. He never said he was going anywhere...at least I don't think he did. I'm actually kind of worried. If he's dead or something, we'd never know.

[Khaldan]

Thats a very morbid thought blackout. And ive got raril beat on time, seeing as just about everyone he's met has a reason to kill him, and he's only been here for around 4 days. t'would be a close race. :smallsmile:

[Artemis97]

Heh, no not really. I had him sitting in the tavern for less then ten minutes before someone tried to kill him from the street. He runs to the police station and gets shot at, the next day he gets attacked by a mindflayer. More recently he's been hunted by the TDI, AMEN, The Royal Navy, The Police, Draken, and that Mindflayer I mentioned earlier.

[Khaldan]

l3ets see.. Khal is currently wanted by most of AMEN, the TDI, probably the imperial guard in a day or so, the shadow fiend keep people, and probably wanted for like 6 counts of bar brawl.
Maybe i should make a lawful character..

[Lord Magtok]

How many times do I have to keep telling everyone? There is no AMEN in the Town anymore. There is just Magtok, Rex, and possibly PirateMonk.

[LordVader]

What? So it fell apart before it started?:smallconfused:

[Artemis97]

Ah yes, let's not forget the IG. After that assassination attempt they aren't too happy with Raril. Hey, I never said he didn't deserve being chased. :smallbiggrin:

[blackout]

Back on topic, I am wholeheartedly advocating the denial of any AMENites a seat on the council. We all know what would happen the minute they got a seat on the council. Draken...well, he's ok, I guess. Bookboy, also ok, but, he's not in the running yet, and the less competition, the better. :smalltongue:

[LordVader]

Absolutely no AMENites on the council, I agree. Artemis would be good on the council as well, I would have nominated you, but you already had 5.:smalltongue:
You're going down, Blackout.:smallbiggrin:

[blackout]

:smallamused: Whatever ya say, Guardsman No. 257489537644766.

[LordVader]

Well, at least we don't pass off mind-controlling as "the Greater Good".:smallyuk: We don't try to hide our ruthlessness.:smalltongue:

[Emperor Ing]

I do not approve of mind control! :smallsmile:

[blackout]

:smalltongue: Dude, the Greater Good is last week's fad. This week's fad? FUNKY FRUIT HATS!

[Emperor Ing]

Join the Dark Side! We have cookies! :smallbiggrin:

FUNKY FRUIT HATS?!? Oh j33bus i dun like the sound of that! *cough* braindrain helmits *cough*

[blackout]

:smallannoyed: Ok, now your stretching it.

[Emperor Ing]

I think ya need anger management....besides, just chill, please. it was a joke!

[blackout]

Ok, but just for the record, here's what I think of the Greater Good.

THE GREATER GOOD SUCKS! THE ONLY REASON I HAVE A TAU BANNER IN MY SIG IS BECAUSE IT'S FOR THE TAU, NOT BECAUSE IT'S FOR THE GREATER GOOD!

Ok, now that's covered. Moving on. :smallannoyed:

[Raistlin1040]

Let's vote for Raistlin! A good man, runs the police station with law and justice, has been in the Town before most of you joined (August 06), and is AMEN, but not a complete nutjob!

VOTE RAISTLIN!!!

[Emperor Ing]

:smalleek: ooh fatal mistake, most of us dont like AMEN (i dun care, as long as theyre not hostile).

[blackout]

Don't vote for Raistlin, he will screw the town over IC, and do his job in an annoying way OOC! :smallamused:

[Lord Magtok]

Back on topic, I am wholeheartedly advocating the denial of any AMENites a seat on the council. We all know what would happen the minute they got a seat on the council.


Absolutely no AMENites on the council, I agree.

That's alignment prejudice. And I say no TDI on the council. :smalltongue:

I think I'd make a very good coucil person. I'm fair, honest, trustworthy, and I know what I'm doing. Just because I play an evil character doesn't mean I'm unfit for a council position. :smallannoyed:

[Draken]

Less flooding.

Every person can choose up to two people to indicate.

You can NOT indicate yourself.

The list in the first post shows who has already made any indications.

The indications will be up until wxdruid gives me word of how many seats are free, after it they will be up for 3 more days or until we have enought candidates to have need of an election. If there aren't enought candidates and a week has passed, no elections will be made and the indicated ones will have the seats at the moment.

-----------------------------

It will be funny, we want to make the council IC Magtok.

[blackout]

It's not the evil character, it's the fact that you guys tend to do whacky things for no reason on occasion. The council really has no place for that. I, personally, don't care if I get on the council or not. As long as no AMENites get the position, I'm good.

[LordVader]

That's alignment prejudice. And I say no TDI on the council. :smalltongue:

I think I'd make a very good coucil person. I'm fair, honest, trustworthy, and I know what I'm doing. Just because I play an evil character doesn't mean I'm unfit for a council position. :smallannoyed:

If your character influences your actions on the council, then I don't want any AMENites there. If the council is purely OOC, I see no problem having AMENites on there, save that obviously the Town would come second to AMEN.

[Lord Magtok]

It's not the evil character, it's the fact that you guys tend to do whacky things for no reason on occasion.

In AMEN! Everything Magtok's done in the Town is actually justified in its own weird little way.


...save that obviously the Town would come second to AMEN.

AMEN has an unusual habit of coming to a complete halt every hour or so. Trust me, I'll be able to find more than enough time for council-y things.

[Raistlin1040]

Just like Magtok, just because I play an evil character, doesn't make me unfit for council. Besides, how quickly you all forget Ekrath, most LG, non-mikoesqe Paladin ever to grace the town. Too bad he was tragically killed.

*moment of silence*

[blackout]

:smallannoyed: Dude, AMEN came to the town and threatened to take it over if we didn't stand down. Trust me, that's not justified. Period. In fact, the whole AMEN/Town thing has actually gotten annoying.

[Emperor Ing]

Blackouts right, it sounds like AMEN and town are the same thing. AMEN exists in Structured Games, we reside in The Town subforum. Were basically the same thing, so just get all your fellow AMENites to come over and consider yourselves townies. :smallwink:

[blackout]

No, that's not what I was talking about. Notice I am being very calm and un-angry. Here. Have some candy.

*candy-toss*

[Draken]

Ok... That discussion is now p-o-i-n-t-l-e-s-s my friends. There will be NO real problem here for any AMENites to be elected unless we make the Council In Character, and even so Rex is still good to go (the others I don't know, but as a fact you would choose one character to be the elected one). Now stop this pointless flood before i call the Gunslinger in the Playground.

[Lord Magtok]

AMEN apppeared to have threatened to take it over if you didn't stand down. The truth is actually completely different.

And why is it you guys seem to hate me so much? I'm playing by the rules, I'm not over-powering any of my characters, and I'm not using any under-handed tricks like taking direct control of NPCs to further my goals, or anything else distasteful. All I'm doing is fulfilling the role of the competent antagonist.

[blackout]

Ah. Ok. Well, back on topic. I use my second indication to indicate LordVader. :smallsmile:

[Khaldan]

But vader is already a candidate..

[Draken]

Not only he has already been made a candidate, you have already made two indications, long ago by the way. So i think you shouldn't be able to change now.

[blackout]

Oh, right...I indicated Magtok....great. :smallannoyed: Well, I withdraw that, and indicate Khaldan I guess.

[Emperor Ing]

I vote LordVader (for reasons only known to him (not that you F***ing pervert!:smallfurious: ))

[Khaldan]

oooo a sticky. and thanks for the nomination blackout :)

[Draken]

1- You already did that.

2- he's already a candidate.

3- I will not allow anyone to indicate the same person twice. that just really doesn't sound right.

(Thread Stickied, Thanks to Moderator Roland St. Jude :smallsmile:)

[blackout]

(Thank you Roland St. Jude! :smallbiggrin: )

Anytime, Khaldan. Just stop doing random things that can potentially cause trouble for my characters IC, and we'll call it even.

[Draken]

Ok... Because that flood and the possibility that everyone can change their nominations at any time, I added a small rule. That thing would drive me crazy with all the changes arround...

Read the first post.

Also, just saw that LV used his second nomination on Bookboy, so added him.

Sorry Khaldan, you are still with no nominations (unless I missed something)

[Lord Magtok]

Due to the fact that Magtok is leaving the Town, I ask that all nominations for me are withdrawn.

[Vhaidara]

Rex and, just because I want to use it but can't think of anyone else, Nightwing.

[Draken]

Nightwing is not nominable, check the first post.

Now, I will have to negate all "Lord Magtok" not only the nominations he got, but the ones he did.

[Raistlin1040]

*Jumps from sky* Nominate Raistlin!
*Lands* My...legs. Ohhh. The pain. *Collapses*

[Vhaidara]

OK, changing from Nightwing to Raistlin.

[blackout]

Ok, I hereby change my Magtok indication to Khaldan. :smallbiggrin:

[Draken]

I thought you would, so I changed it before, you are astonishingly predictable.

[blackout]

:smallannoyed: Thanks, but not funny regarding predictability.

[The Black Prince]

I vote for Nightwing! Go Nightwing!... no, not really, I vote for Blackout and Bookboy.

[Vhaidara]

Yessssssssssss! I'm Into The Elections!

[blackout]

Noooo, I've got more competition! :smalltongue: No, really, good luck, Bookboy.

[Rex Idiotarum]

If you are going against AMENites on the council, I will reestablish that AMEN and the Town are two threads, my characters act completely different in both, as do I.

Magtok, what did I say my goals were when you entered the Town, earn the people's respect, don't kill anyone, don't do anything rash, and certainly don't get rumors spread about AMEN, since such actions would prevent me from making the own independent and functional. Unfortunately, you have not followed one of these stances, and have failed your duties. Now I'm being held back by my ties to AMEN. If it will take renouncing my leadership and membership to AMEN to get on the council, then I will do it, I just care about this place that much. I liked the old days, back when RPing actually existed for purposes other than fighting and survival, when people could actually act beyond seventh grade standards and come up with deeper relationships. Back when there were day to day actions that could be held up, as well as a powerful plot. My only grief in it was at that point I wasn't a good Roleplayer, and the people in charge were too cliquey.

It has come to the point for us to build a new, better town, a town that can have powerful police, so we don't have the day-to-day killings as we have seen in these dark, dark days. A place were on can RP without fear of overpowered characters and underplayed responses, a place of peace... most of the time. I say, for this to occur, it doesn't just have to be a new council, a new rules, a new Police station, what we need is to re-evaluate our characters. It is time for us to grow, to embrace one another as townies, even if they are friend or foe in organization.

It is time, time for a new town council, and with it, a new Town!
((Awaits cheers and applause: Anyways, vote for me when elections come))

[Draken]

Wow, that was... Brilliant.

[Admiral_Kelly]

Yes, but he left out the abolishment of non-humorous or inappropriate metagmeing. I want that to be an issue as well.

[Draken]

...

Damn it AK! Characters knowing if they are PCs or NPCs is a premisse of the Town!

[Admiral_Kelly]

In your view, yes. Not in mine; I find that ridiculous in an annoying way. But that's not all I'm talking about. I'm talking about things like characters saying things such as "Let's do this for the plot." or other such nonsense.

[Rex Idiotarum]

Well, that will come in serious Roleplaying, and time. I just didn't want to jump that on my first speech, because I've been doing that a lot. It would make me sound like a hypocrite, and that adds flaw to an otherwise great speech. I will swear upon my own personal pledge to reduce, if not eliminate, my character's direct reference to NPC and PC as separate classes of citizens, and will move to give NPCs the same rights as PCs. Meaning if you kill a random NPC, you will be arrested.

[metakirb]

In your view, yes. Not in mine; I find that ridiculous in an annoying way. But that's not all I'm talking about. I'm talking about things like characters saying things such as "Let's do this for the plot." or other such nonsense.

agree on that point, but sometimes metagaming is funny, so not quite a complete obliteration of it

[Shadow of the Sun]

Kelly?

The Town never was, is, and never will be that serious. Trying to impose seriousness onto it will make it loose it's flair.

[Nightwing]

Am I allowed two votes? If so I vote for book boy as well Artemis.

[Atreyu the Masked LLama]

Huzzah for Rex!

Huzzah for Town silliness.

[Draken]

You are allowed Nightwing. But these two have already been choose, it is pretty much pointless.

Umm... Good to see old towners reapearing.

Byw, Atreyu, I negated your military coup because I found out you were in political recess.

[AmberVael]

Greetings.
When I saw Rex's little speech I felt that I must comment... just to give a little advice and warning- not that he is wrong, in fact, he is right, I just thought I'd show WHY we ended up the way we did.

The Overpowered Characters.

Seems like something you want to prevent, aye? Well yeah, you do.
So what do you do about it? Put some kind of ban? Maybe a voting process? Something of that sort? Seems logical, correct?

Take a look at it from a business perspective. Demand and supply. Limiting the supply makes it a rarer and more desirable thing, yes? More people want it...
People start protesting the laws and say people should have control over their own characters...
The laws vanish...
Everyone becomes overpowered.

So then some new people come along, or some old players make new characters. Not overpowered. They just want regular guys.
Powerful characters are now the norm, the standard, right? Not in demand.
Then they find that the powerful characters are beating up and easily bypassing whatever they do. It is annoying, and they don't like it. So they protest.
But the reason that they had gotten the powerful characters in the first place is so that they would be equal and the same as everyone else...

That is what happened before. It wasn't that people wanted to overpower and be the biggest and the best, it was a loop, a cycle, just a play of society and supply and demand. It was becoming the norm, not the best. You needed to survive.

So honestly I wonder if it might not be best to eliminate the problem of overpowered characters by NOT limiting them. Maybe I'm just stupid, maybe I'm wrong... but limiting them didn't work the first time. It led to the very problem you guys (and even all of the people who migrated) are complaining over.
So maybe there will be a really strong character (like Draken, for example, who is really high of level and has god knows what level adjustment) or two. But the majority of people already say they don't want powerful characters. If you keep things as it is, then there will be mostly people who are of an average level (for Town, that is) and one or two really powerful characters (which you'll probably end up with no matter what you do. There will always be someone more powerful than you).

The Cliques
Dear god, I hate these things.
Seriously, if there is one major problem we have (we being the people who left) it is the cliques. They have killed us. They have leeched our ability to role play and be creative, to interact, to have any sort of fun at all!
One thing I have noticed that truly makes a difference is a single place that everyone -and I mean everyone- can go.
I do believe that as long as one place (like Trog's) remains highly active, the level of entertainment value will remain high. That is the only thing I've really noticed that will combat the cliquishness.

Here is one final one you guys may not have thought of, but it does just as much harm as the cliques...

The Law
Okay, yeah, IC law is great. Perhaps really hard to enforce, but great.
But when it comes to OOC...

OOC, excessive amounts of law stagnates the Town. It bogs people down with rules and restrictions, with regulations on their characters and leads to such things as the aforementioned Overpowered Character Influx. You'll start spending more time thinking about it.
Same thing with being too polite or stingy- it leads to lack of interaction. So you don't want people attacking your nice little keep? You just tell them "no?" It really is a bad idea. It looks good- it'll keep people from blowing your place up... but it will also lead to a number of people not coming to your place at all. Stagnation. Decay. Lack of enjoyment.
A semi-controlled Anarchy is how the Town worked best, really it did.


Just a final, less serious note.
Ninjas never leave. They just disappear from sight.
I'm still watching... :smallamused:

[Death, your friend the Reaper]

The Cliques

To this day I never worked out exactly what that means (googling would spoil the fun of working it out in the end), and always thought it had to do with clichés, such as "drow that cast aside his race's values", and "good paladin, out to redeem himself after a plot hook", or even the "girl who fights, even though not wanting to, just because some ninjas killed her parents".

...almost fits to.

[Nightwing]

Vael is right. that's why i made Baron Law. Not to over power, but to equal. And yet I find that other characters overpower him easily. I make my Characters at about 13 level. Bu, It is unfair when some one has a 40 level character and they are invincibly! They can go and do what ever they want because no one can stop them! it is no fun for other people! Then they just make up stuff and get them even more powerful! I realized I was doing this with Baron law and decided to get rid of the armorer.

[Draken]

What ECL would you do to the Paragon model? That is one thing that bugs me to this day...

Also, the problem is not (entirelly) being OP, is what you do being OP :smallbiggrin:

And if someone that is uterly invincible due to extremely high levels, go look at the Homebrew, Vorpal Tribble's "monster of the masses" send that thing after the troublemakers, it is invincible and under the rules.

Why the hell am I flooding...

And I know you didn't leave Vael, you were RPing with wxdruid in the slums a few days ago. And geting annoyed with Bookboy, wait, no that was Renegade Paladin.

[metakirb]

i often find myself confused about levels, i work on the system for final fantasy, which goes to 99, and it isn't hard to get, nor is it overpowered, they are beatable, strong but beatable, sure coronox is overpowered but he originated from a random thing i wrote, so he was created before i really joined the town

[Rex Idiotarum]

To put it the best way, characters shouldn't be more than action heroes, they should get cut and scraped, beaten and battered, and maybe, even rarely, killed. In the end, it should look amazing as they are covered in sweat and blood dodging about tearing the crap out of people. My concern wasn't limiting the characters, and I know no character should be limited, it is the characters that have been established for the sole reason of fighting, and just never take a hit. They end up with no personality, no RPing or anything.

It's that I want to nudge people into the direction of having characters that can be fun to be around, not ones that call you out for a fight in the middle of a tavern, and pull godmode on your already overpowered character.

People, characters should be as if they were made for prolonged D&D games, not just dungeon delver and BBEGs.

Law? Our problem now is the Tyrannies and Terrorisms that are arising, a centralized Police force will establish unbiased peace and freedom, it won't impose too much on characters, it will however prevent the large crimewaves that plague the Town as it exists, with little roleplay, and what roleplay does exist could easily be interrupted by some psycho. An Anarchy is asking for too much, since they are short lived and develop into what we have seen in the past weeks. It's has to be established that ruining other's fun is not the best course of action. Committing Murder-Attempted Suicide in the middle of Trog's with a cop sitting at a table is not the best idea, and I want to establish that. Crimes cannot go unpunished, Law must go unbiased. Trog's was only a good place for entertainment if you could hang out, not be picked off randomly by a person you haven't seen before to get attacked and killed.

Cliques? You have a problem with cliques? Your crew was so cliquey that they left the forums to not have new people bother them. You claim you wanted a public place that everyone could go, why did you go to a separate forum? Trust me, as far as cliqueyness goes, you guys were the worse. Much of the Town's structure was designed to intimidate newcomers.

[Artemis97]

We get two votes right? Well I'll use my second to put J_Muller back in the running. Turns out he's gone on vacation until the end of august, but he's still with us, so don't count him out.

[AmberVael]

Um, Rex, no offense, but I think you misread me.

I wasn't accusing you guys of anything.
I was pointing out what our people had done WRONG, and what you guys should watch out for before you repeat it (though I don't see signs of that yet).

I'm basically saying "we were dumb, don't follow our example"

And again, I point out that I was talking about OOC law, not IC law. IC law is good, OOC law needs to be present but less.

[Raistlin1040]

Yay Vael!


Onto buisness. Wait a second...I don't have any buisness to address today. So good day, and happy roleplaying!

[AmberVael]

Yay Vael!
And there was much rejoicing.
"yaaaaay..."
*waves finger around in a circle*

[Raistlin1040]

*Does the Electric Slide*

[Rex Idiotarum]

My Fellow Townies, I have come to report upon the destruction and decays of organizations past. Word may have spread, but none of you know for sure. The TDI is gone. AMEN went back to their own thread. The Order has been destroyed, betwen Samson in jail, and Barracuda smashed into a rock. The one organization I still fear is DELTA, but I'm hoping to take care of that legally. And that is why I'm here. We need a new Council: New Rules, new authorities, an effective force. It won't be hard, all you have to do is vote. Vote for a Better Town. Remember, I can only do so much, it's really up to you to approve.

It's why I know this campaign for a better Town has to start with you. It is you who are the plots, it is you who are this Town, no matter who runs it. It is you who should work hard to make sure you and others around you have fun. Remember, as a Townie, you are a PC and a DM for your character alone. If you make the characters too difficult, the other players will become distressed about fighting him. I'm not saying that you have to limit your character, just respect those who do. I do not want an Arms Race for the Town.

On the same note about characters, my favorite superhero has always been Spiderman, Emotionally, he's a wreck, physically, he's well above average, but he can still get the crap beat out of him. By bullets and normal weapons no less! My least favorite hero has always been Superman. He's too powerful. He's a god, and there is only one weakness. I say this because I know too many townies that fall into the latter category that don't use their great powers with great responsibilities. In character, this poses a major problem, just because you don't want him to be killed, doesn't mean your character doesn't have to take injuries.

I now understand what Vael is talking about by Cliqueiness. An event occurred today that reminded me of my first attempts at the Town. A total Godmod and Railroad, which not only negated a character's attack, but made it meaningless by sheer virtue of plot alone. It made the person feel ineffective, it was in really bad form that left most parties involved fuming. I cannot stress this enough, don't railroad. The Town is a public place with public people. If you have a plot here, it is public. You should treat it as much. Plots, like in D&D, will be subject to interference, deal with it. Applaud their efforts, and if they really outsmart you, hen let them impact your plot. Think over things, the Town isn't like D&D. you can use a few minutes to adjust your plots a bit, even if it as extreme as killing off a BBEG long before he could do what he came to do.

Of course, on the other end of the spectrum, don't ruin moments. Just remember that there is a time and a place for everything. If other players just want to relax, don't send Balors after them. If people are going through a horror plot, don't do inane things to lighten the dark mood. Play to the mood, and don't be afraid to talk to people in combat, or receive word from people outside of combat. Remember to follow Roleplayer's Etiquette ((Wow, I got that on second try!)) which is, despite what you may or may not think, other people exist too, bring them along, and you might have more fun. I ran a plot that started as me asking blackout to join me in the police station. How many people got involved? 5? 10? Anyways, it's a lot. And in character, I just put my foot down, said at one point I'd handle it. It might be a spontaneous quest, but I'm hoping to tie it into something else.

My last point, conflict for the sake of conflict. You don't have to kill people to have a good time. You could dance and party all night and drink some cherry wine. Think about it. Sometimes talking can have as much plot as regular fighting. Like the ol' Story of a story thing that Kramer or the show Grounded For Life. Calm down, just because your character has a sword, doesn't mean he needs to use it at the most minor insult.

~This Speech Brought to you by the New Town Order~

[Vhaidara]

Amen (no pun intended) on all but the railroading charge. I haven't checked spells like Mind Blank in a while, but I thought I remembered its effect involved giving you Spell Resistence, and therefore, if that doesn't work, that implies SR doesn't work either. I apolgize, but also, I was rushed. Nightwing was leaving town and going into a four day deadtime, so I wanted to try and get this plot finished at his request. I didn't have time for the railroading.

[LordVader]

Also, I hope Nightwing takes the part about not attacking people randomly to heart.:smallannoyed: Good speech, Rex.

[Rex Idiotarum]

Bookboy, it wasn't just you specifically, although you did remind me, in the Old Town, Plot Shields and Deus Ex Machinas ran wild just to keep up with the Interferences. It got to a point where so many people were just angry at that, they just left. Went to a place where they couldn't be bothered. I think Vael only made the forum to prevent the overuse of such things, to keep the mood in the game.

[AmberVael]

It was an extreme action, I'll admit, but yes, that was our reasoning, Rex.

Of course, getting away from the forum outages was another very large motivation... though there were a number of others as well.

[Rex Idiotarum]

I'm just trying to stress the point that this is more of an MMORPG than a D&D, but less of one than WoW. Since fights' only action are with words, it can get boring really fast. Even if you play fair. You shouldn't randomly attack people, but on the other hand, you shouldn't ignore who wants to be in the fight.

In that instance, the Town, ideally, should be a high RP, low Combat game. Sure, you'll slaughter Zombies now and then, but getting the merchant to give you that Item you want is just as fun a challenge.

[Admiral_Kelly]

I prefer having an equal amount of action and charachter development; that's what makes things fun.

[Raistlin1040]

Rex is worried about the DELTA? That's a shocker, considering he authorised them.

[LordVader]

That reminds me, Raneus is rather...eager...to deal with them. Also, Raistlin, does AK control a seperate faction of the DELTA police?

[Admiral_Kelly]

Yes; I would say it is a sub-faction to the DELTA force.

[LordVader]

I guess they have to die too, then.:smalltongue:

[PirateMonk]

Now now, violence is not the answer. :smalltongue:

[Rex Idiotarum]

Of course it's action and Drama that makes them fun, but action without drama? We aren't writing an Arnold Schwarzenegger movie. My point remains: Mix it up. Develop characters. Conflict isn't just the up-time, there can be some while a character is relaxing.

What's so shocking about me worrying about DELTA? I also authorized AMEN, but when things don't go to plan, well, cut the losses and start down a different path. Even so, I was worried about DELTA from the begining, but stuff got out of my hands fast.

Not anymore.

PM has a good point, and I expect DELTA to stand down if the Police Station is given proper jurisdiction.

[Admiral_Kelly]

One option is to merge DELTA with the rest of the police; two stations, one force. My charachter, Rivo, is willing to cooperate.

[Vhaidara]

And so is Captain Daeghun, and I'm pretty sure that Chief Lilith prefers that path as well. Especially since we're rather low on cops right now.

[PirateMonk]

Raistlin might not, though, and I don't see violence getting anywhere with Maximillion, Racu, Serene, the animals, and Parting Gifts.

[Raistlin1040]

Very true. Bulletproof Barbarian and Monk, epic level Enchantress, High Cleric of "Pelor". And of course the good Captain, master of every swordsmanship technique ever created. But Raistlin doesn't want trouble. As long as the DELTA get fair treatment and respect, it's all good.

[PirateMonk]

The animal minions will go along with that. Parting Gifts, however, exists solely to wreak havoc upon absolutely anyone in the Town.

[Raistlin1040]

What's a Parting Gift?

[PirateMonk]

Parting Gifts is an octagonal prism of an unknown metal left behind by PM to make things difficult for the Townies.

[Rex Idiotarum]

I think a merger into one police force maybe fine. However, it tends to get difficult to keep track of if you have so many alts.

[Raistlin1040]

Honestly, Ishida would be the only real member. The others are a bit like NPC's. Only there when needed.

[LordVader]

And so is Captain Daeghun, and I'm pretty sure that Chief Lilith prefers that path as well. Especially since we're rather low on cops right now.

Raneus will be 100% against this. Jarus doesn't really care. Also, the Guard troopers aren't nearly stupid enough as to open that thing.:smalltongue:

[PirateMonk]

No worries, it can open itself. :smalltongue:

[Draken]

News:

Sophistemon and Necropaladin resigned, That means we will have 5 seats to fill. And since I got the info, we have a fine number of candidates, and no one is actually making indications amynore, I will close the indications now. If you didn't make your indications, the time is up. K.N.A.V.E.S. will go after you, or they would go, but they left town :smallsmile:

Ok. There is a possibility that Exachix declines his position, and if he does so, we will have six seats and 7 candidates, not actually many choices to make. So I will raise it, we will have at least nine candidates.

That means I am still counting.

------------------------------------

I will have to find Exachix and Supagoff... They are the election agents, or should we find a new pair?

I call The Llama to be one of the election agents, and I will take the second role position myself. Since I am already taking care of this.

[Atreyu the Masked LLama]

neither Town much anymore. I'd find others.
I'll help as a tallier if necessary.

[PirateMonk]

I nominate Raistlin.

[Rex Idiotarum]

You mean we need to fill the entire council? Sweet! I'm so in! And with five presently active members, it should be fun. :smallbiggrin:

Anyways, I figure I'll have to write my "Only Half Full" Speech, so I might as well, with the Council only empty. Here goes...


People, Animals, Aberrations, pseudo-people, and ex-people of the town, I heed your attention, I request your ears. I do this because only you can give them to me. I say this because I really don't matter anymore to me than you do. I say this because we have made progress.

Now, you can take the optimist's post and say the glass is half full, and that's enough. You can take the pessimist's post and say that the glass is half empty. only one more half until empty. I have found my stance, that the Town is Only half Full, very likable indeed. The town is good, it is fun, nut it could be much better. Let's not give up, let us not rest with a job half done, let us go all the way, a full glass and a cheeseburger to boot!

With tyrannical organizations all but wiped out, I must say this place is slowly getting back together, but I must stress that with proper Role Play Etiquette, one must also acknowledge proper Forum Etiquette. Mainly, If you're here, you're here with other people.

Actually, that's a good premise. "If you're here, you're here with other people." What does it mean? It means that you should type to be read properly, that you should acknowledge that other people new to the scene have no idea what's going on. It's to say that your plots should not be godmodded so as to negate any other person's character but your own. It is common courteously. Respect for your fellow roleplayers.

Is it too much to ask for coherent sentences and proper grammar? I understand many people aren't natural English speakers, but it's something that you should work on. Look at other peoples' posts, especially the respectable, coherent ones. Read them, embrace them. Give details, emotions, and action. Make your characters pop. You don't need fancy forum formatting, like bolding or size increases to display your characters emotions. Simply, it looks a lot better if you describe it and add in exclamation. "'Get the @#$% out of here!' Rex barks, trembling in hate and anger." It's clean and powerful. With so many alts out there, it also gets confusing if you refer to your characters as pronouns and let your colors do the talking. If you have alts, be courteous and put their names in with posts revolving around them.

Just remember, you are the Town, no matter who the elected Councilors are. You are the ones with the power, but I must stress. This is not an Elitist society, this is SPARTA! *Kicks a random person down a well* I mean.... This is a community. *looks down the well* I hope he's alright... Anyways, my point in this really long, and probably boring speech is that anything that's good from the Town has to be from you. The council can only create the rules. The police can only enforce them, but you are the only ones that have to follow them.

If you're here, you're here with other people.

((Note to self, don't write propaganda speeches and watch "Thank You For Smoking" at the same time.))

[wxdruid]

After reading through this thread, there are a lot of good comments and thoughts. Keep it up. :smallcool:

[Draken]

Ok, we have all seats to fill (except for mayor), and we are going to need 9 candidates. So far there are seven, two more to go people. Check in the first page who and how many you indicated.

And remember, anyone can make indications, it doesn't actually matter how long you have been here.

[wxdruid]

There should only be 6 council member spots.

[Draken]

Only seven candidates? fine by me.

The seven candidates are there, send your votes for me and the Llama.

Each person can vote one candidate for each position, this means 6 votes.

Don't vote the same person twice, if you do your vote will not be considered (or you will be asked to vote again? I don't actually remember...

[wxdruid]

When does the voting end? and can you please relist the candidates on the ballot?

[Draken]

Next monday. A week to vote.

Remember: Send your votes for Draken and Atryeu, The Masked Llama. If possible, send your votes in this fashion.



1° seat - name
2° seat - name
3° seat - name
4° seat - name
5° seat - name
6° seat - name


The candidates are the following:


Draken
LordVader
Rex Idiotarum
Artemis97
blackout
Bookboy
J_Muller

[Admiral_Kelly]

I have a way to simplify the elections -

Six seats; seven candidates. We should simply vote for the one we don't want.

[Nightwing]

Good idea. I vote against J_Muller.

[Admiral_Kelly]

*cough*

What I should of added was that it should be done in a form of secret ballet; otherwise people may take it personally.

[Draken]

Bookboy siad that in the PM he sent.

Yes, you can do that, just specify. And vote via PM, sending then to me and to Atreyu. Votes made here will NOT be counted.

[Vhaidara]

I already PM'ed mine, but I went against J Muller, simply because he's been inactive for a while, and I don't think it would take long for any time limit to boot him.

[Draken]

AAAAAAAAAAAAnd the polls are closed!

I will count the votes. The Llama will now speak if I am rigging the elections (and i am not, just to make sure everyone knows it).

Artemis97 - 6
blackout - 6
Bookboy - 5
Draken - 6
J_Muller - 1
LordVader - 6
Rex Idiotarum - 6

... Well, it sure was an extremelly boring election. only six votes and only seven candidates. Unless people sent their votes to the Llama and forgot about me.

But this is it. The new council is:

Artemis97
blackout
Bookboy
Draken
Lordvader
Rex Idiotarum
--------------------------

Yes. No one guessed this outcome.

[Vhaidara]

Wow. Anti-climactic.

[Artemis97]

Indeed, but thanks everyone for voting for me. I will do my best to create a fun environment for everyone to play in.

[Vhaidara]

I just want to know who the oddball in the group was. The one that voted Muller. My suspicions are on Rex or AK.

[Artemis97]

Please do not start pointing fingers. It could hve been anyone. Voting is confidential and shall remain that way.

[Rex Idiotarum]

Well, he has a Rexatar...

Actually, It wasn't me, I figure Bookboy is easier to control.

[Admiral_Kelly]

So how long is a term for a council member?

[blackout]

:smallconfused: Wow. I'm on the council....meh. :smallannoyed:

[LordVader]

Cool.
((It wasn't me.:smalltongue: And nice one Rex. :P))

[Vhaidara]

Please do not start pointing fingers. It could hve been anyone. Voting is confidential and shall remain that way.

I was actually just naming the two people that sounded most likely not to vote for me.

[Artemis97]

That's cool, but I'm just trying to stave off the inevitable shouting match. Preventative measures you understand?

[Rex Idiotarum]

NO, I WILL NOT CALM DOWN!

I mean.... yeah, sure...

[wxdruid]

I would prefer it if someone on the council started the new Town Hall Thread.

In terms of the Council, terms are 6 months and elections are every three months. With the election of an all new council, it needs to be decided when the next election will be. The next Mayoral election will be in November.

[Supagoof]

AAAAAAAAAAAAnd the polls are closed!

I will count the votes. The Llama will now speak if I am rigging the elections (and i am not, just to make sure everyone knows it).


What?!? But that's part of the job! Rigging the elections is an essential part of the process.

*Writes note to go talk with Llama about how to rig the elections.....*

Unless, oh wait I get it. It's like old mafia speak. Okay, You're not rigging the elections.

I'm not here.