UA Stone Sorcery Optimization

[ingenuus]

Hey everyone,

So we had our first night of a new campaign postponed recently and while waiting for the reschedule, this weeks UA came out. As soon as I read Stone Sorcery, I knew I wanted to change characters lol. To that end, I would love your assistance with this. First thing's first, here are the stats I rolled:

Str 13
Dex 15
Con 13
Int 10
Wis 16
Cha 17


I am open to any and all thoughts/suggestions on how to build this, but the main things I am wondering about are as follows:

What race should I pick? I am debating internally between Vuman with Toughness (and 1 point in both Con and Str/Dex), Hill Dwarf, or Mountain Dwarf.
Should I go Str or Dex/finesse for weapon? My stats make me lean Dex, but I am unsure if the two point gap is big enough to make it matter overall.
Our game will likely go to level 12-14...should I stay straight sorcerer for this or would an MC be worth it for that likely level range?


Any and all info folks can share is greatly appreciated!

[8wGremlin]

What starting level?
and can you change your stats around?

[Deleted]

Mountain or Hill Dwarf is the only answer.

MC Paladin

Stoney McStoneface the Sorcdin

[Simian]

My advice would be to use booming blade and green flame blade with this build. For that reason I would use str and either go "Sword & Board" (sword and shield) or 2h weapon. The reason being is because you will not be using the attack action so you won't get a bonus attack from dual wielding. Also, since you will be using con for armor you will probably not be adding additional points into dexterity. So decide between higher armor class or more damage.

As for races there are a lot of good races for a lot of different reasons. I would support all 3 of the choices you mentioned. I would lean towards mountain dwarf over hill dwarf and if you end up choosing that you might lean a little more towards a 2h weapon since you can get a higher armor class.

Stone sorcerer really shines from 14th level on, that being said there are a lot of good multiclass dips as well. 2 levels into either paladin (for divine smite, and a fighting stance) or warlock (for eldritch blast) would be excellent investments, you could even get a 3rd level into paladin for sacred weapon (+cha to hit) or a 3rd level into warlock for pact of tome: shillelagh (+cha to hit and damage).

edit: if you do choose human consider the warcaster feat as an alternative to toughness

[ingenuus]

What starting level?
and can you change your stats around?

Oops...not sure why I left that off! Starting at level 3 and I cannot change my stats around sadly :smallfrown:

[8wGremlin]

The dwarf's weapon proficiency and mountain dwarf's armour proficiency is wasted on the Stone Sorcerer.
The extra HP from Hill is useful but then the +Wis isn't really helpful.

You could look at some of the Volo's races:

Scourge Aasimar (+1 Con, +2 Cha) might be good.
Triton (+1 Str, Con, and Cha)

But looking at your stats, they don't really scream out Stone Sorcerer.

You could go
1st: Stone Sorcerer 1
2nd: Warlock 1
3rd: Warlock 2
4th: Warlock 3 (Tome) - pick shillelagh and go off Cha
5th+: Sorcerer

just ideas

[Kileonhardt]

The dwarf's weapon proficiency and mountain dwarf's armour proficiency is wasted on the Stone Sorcerer.
The extra HP from Hill is useful but then the +Wis isn't really helpful.

You could look at some of the Volo's races:

Scourge Aasimar (+1 Con, +2 Cha) might be good.
Triton (+1 Str, Con, and Cha)

But looking at your stats, they don't really scream out Stone Sorcerer.

You could go
1st: Stone Sorcerer 1
2nd: Warlock 1
3rd: Warlock 2
4th: Warlock 3 (Tome) - pick shillelagh and go off Cha
5th+: Sorcerer

just ideas

Abyssal Tiefling. +2 Cha +1 con and 1hp/lvl. Definitely fits the bill for Stone Sorlock using Shillelagh.

[EvilAnagram]

If you're allowed to switch your stats up, I would put the 17 in Str, the 15 in Con, and go with Earth Genasi. Take spells that aren't focused on your casting stat (Shield, Feather Fall, Misty Step, Mirror Image) and just use Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade.


Abyssal Tiefling. +2 Cha +1 con and 1hp/lvl. Definitely fits the bill for Stone Sorlock using Shillelagh.

Is that homebrew?

[Simian]

The dwarf's weapon proficiency and mountain dwarf's armour proficiency is wasted on the Stone Sorcerer.

I would argue that unless you get max constitution, the mountain dwarf armor offers many better protection options than the con+13 calculation which is the equivalent of studded leather on a typical character. Especially when you already rolled a 15 dexterity.

Not to mention that you have to factor in the fact that you have to play many sessions before you would get to a high constitution score, so your character would be better protected for most of his adventuring career.

That being said, I agree that this stat distribution does not scream stone sorcerer.

[Simian]

If you're allowed to switch your stats up, I would put the 17 in Str, the 15 in Con, and go with Earth Genasi. Take spells that aren't focused on your casting stat (Shield, Feather Fall, Misty Step, Mirror Image) and just use Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade.



Is that homebrew?

It comes from the Black Magic Unearthed Arcana.

[ingenuus]

Thanks for the feedback so far! I totally get that my stats don't scream Stone. I just really really like the class/want to play it, this is probably the only campaign I'll be in that allows UA to be used, and I'm stuck with these stats.

Is the big difference between going Str over Dex using a two handed weapon or am I missing other stuff?

[X3r4ph]

This is the third place I'm gonna post this since I find I hilarious.

The Anoying Knight AKA The Bodyguard
Fighter Knight 11/ Stone Sorcerer 6/ Scout Rogue 3.
You plant Aegis on your friend and cast Blade Ward or whatever.
When you friend gets attacked you teleport up to the enemy and smack him. Then you Mark him and give him disadvantage on all attacks that aren't you. If they attack your frend again, you keep smacking him with your Knight extra attacks.
Afterwards, at the end of the enemy's turn, you walk away for free. If you want. Perhaps the enemy has an Anoying aura.
Rinse and repeat.

[Coyote81]

This is the third place I'm gonna post this since I find I hilarious.

The Annoying Knight AKA The Bodyguard
Fighter Knight 11/ Stone Sorcerer 6/ Scout Rogue 3.
You plant Aegis on your friend and cast Blade Ward or whatever.
When you friend gets attacked you teleport up to the enemy and smack him. Then you Mark him and give him disadvantage on all attacks that aren't you. If they attack your friend again, you keep smacking him with your Knight extra attacks.
Afterwards, at the end of the enemy's turn, you walk away for free. If you want. Perhaps the enemy has an Annoying aura.
Rinse and repeat.

This is close to what I was thinking. It's really hilarious that each of those knight attacks also get sneak attack bonuses as long as they are on different turns. So you get one when you teleport and another one each time you use your knight reaction.

[Giant2005]

With that very un-ideal stat array, I would ditch both Str and Dex in favor of Shillelagh. You want to end up Undying Light Tomelock 3/Stone Sorcerer X. Undying Light gives you an enhanced Hellish Rebuke for when Stone Aegis isn't triggering and it makes your GFB more powerful.
I'd start with Warlock 2/Sorcerer 1 and use EB for a starter, just so your class combination can be justified in your backstory (it is easier than changing classes in game).

[X3r4ph]

This is close to what I was thinking. It's really hilarious that each of those knight attacks also get sneak attack bonuses as long as they are on different turns. So you get one when you teleport and another one each time you use your knight reaction.
Geez!!! I hadn't even thought about that. That. That's pure evil genius.

[Giant2005]

When you friend gets attacked you teleport up to the enemy and smack him. Then you Mark him and give him disadvantage on all attacks that aren't you. If they attack your frend again, you keep smacking him with your Knight extra attacks.

That doesn't work.
Even a Knight can still only use a single Reaction per turn.
Your friend would get attacked, you teleport, attack, and mark the target; but then the target can do whatever it likes without fear of repercussion (from you anyway).

[Sir cryosin]

With those stats I would go vhuman with warcaster. And pick a shield and rapier. That gives you a 16 AC to start and you can cast spells with your hand full. You'll have a better initiative And Dex saves. Your doing same damage as a STR S&B. Don't muilticlass you need the ASI's and besides extra there's not much else you need. Use booming blade and green flame blade with smite spells. And other buff spells. That low con hurts but I would pump con at lv4, 8

[X3r4ph]

That doesn't work.
Even a Knight can still only use a single Reaction per turn.
Your friend would get attacked, you teleport, attack, and mark the target; but then the target can do whatever it likes without fear of repercussion (from you anyway). Implacable Mark explicitly overides the limit of reactions if your Mark moves 1ft. or attacks with disadvantage due to the Implacable Mark feature.

No?

Edit: your are right. Nevermind.

[Spiriah]

Half-Elf pretty much always works for Cha-based characters, but it seems especially useful with those stats – 19 Cha right off the bat, and put your floating +1s in Dex and Con. Vuman is also fine, though I'd probably go +1Cha +1Con and get Resilient (Dex) as my free feat, unless you're starting at a higher level where you can really feel Toughness's impact. You could also go for War Caster, though you'd obviously go for a different arrangement for your +1s then.

Dex seems like the way to go for weapons here – no sense in letting that base 15 go to waste. Having Str at 13 is pretty nice, though, as (and this leads into your last question) Paladin takes a 13 Str to MC into. Sorcadin is a very powerful multiclass, and though it does take some time for its full benefits to come online, even a 2-3 level dip is very nice, giving you access to Divine Smite using your larger spell slot pool as a result of being a Sorcerer.

[ingenuus]

Good news! My DM told me I can switch my stats around! I rolled them old school style/in order for the last character idea I had, but he is letting me keep the scores, but switch the stat they are tied to in order to play Stone!

Any other suggestions on how I should shuffle them around and what race to go for now?

[Gignere]

Good news! My DM told me I can switch my stats around! I rolled them old school style/in order for the last character idea I had, but he is letting me keep the scores, but switch the stat they are tied to in order to play Stone!

Any other suggestions on how I should shuffle them around and what race to go for now?

I recommend half elf put 16 in cha so you start with an 18 there move the 17 to strength and 15 to con, +1 to both so you have 18 strength and 16 con. Level 4 + 2 to con and now you have 3 18's in your most important abilities.

If you go S&B I would recommend putting one of those 18 to dex.

[ingenuus]

Also, any thoughts on spell selection for a Stone Sorcery build (aside from Green Flame Blade)?

I was thinking shield and mirror image for defensive spells, but I am torn on how to go aside from that.

[Coyote81]

Those smite spells look might good.

[Capt_Flintlock]

I'm playing stone sorcerer now. I'm rolling with a half-elf Stone Sorc (3) with a MC of Revised Ranger - Guardian (3). The concentration requirement for Hunters Mark and a lot of the Smites isn't ideal, but the dueling fighting style gives a nice bonus as does the blanket humanoid +2 damage. The other nice part about the build is for my metamagic I took Distant Spell and Twinned Spell, so I can do distant spelled Booming Blade with my 10 feet reach or multiattack with GFB. By being a half-elf, my cha is still decent enough to do some non-melee stuff.

So far he's been pretty damned effective. I've got 18 AC with a shield (23 when I use Shield Spell), and against humanoids I'm doing 1d8+3 (Longsword + ability mod) + 2 (dueling fighting style) +2 (favored enemy) +1d8 (green flame blade) +1d6 (hunter's mark) + 1d6 (guardian thorn) / Twinned Spell GFB 1d8+3 (ability mod) + 2 (dueling fighting style) +2 (favored enemy) +1d8 (green flame blade) +1d6 (hunter's mark). So for 1 sorcery point I can do 4d8+14 +3d6 damage.

With distant spell you can only use 1 metamagic at a time so damage isn't as great, but there is something really satisfying about hitting people with booming blade at 10 feet without having to take spell sniper. So that's only 2d8+7+2d6 with +2d8 if they move. Quicken is probably optimal compared to Distant, but I wanted to really utilize the Guardian's awesome 10 ft reach. As he levels, will continue in sorcerer, especially for that teleport action. Teleporting while in guardian form (I'm uncertain of it's legality, but the DM cleared it for when I get high enough level) is gonna be awesome. The sorcerer's squisihiness is for mitigated by the high con and bonus hp.

For Sorc spells I chose shield, feather fall, Mirror Image, and Misty Step. For Rangers I chose hunter's mark, absorb elements, and Cure Wounds (being able to give pretty effective healing with twinning is proving useful).

A big draw back though is that all of the smites offered by stone sorc are negated by needing to use my concentration for hunters mark. Another drawback is it takes some rounds to get in place. Bonus action to hunters Mark, Bonus action to guardian spirit slows you down from being able to do the whole offense on the first attack is a bit deflating when you have a barbarian in the party. Another issue is a reliance on a small pool of sorcery points at this point in the build, but I try to offset that by mostly using my spell slots for shield and hunter's mark. But all together the build has been a lot of fun.

[8wGremlin]

VHuman is good:
Put the 16 in CHA
Put the 17 in CON to get 18 starting CON
- this means you have 13+ 4(con) +2(shield) AC: 19
- and extra HPs as well.
put the 15 in STR to get 16 starting STR

Pick: Warcaster as your feat:
now use Booming blade for your opp attacks, don't need a hand free to cast and have advantage on Concentration checks.

[Carpone]

Melee is a trap for the Stone Sorcerer, and here's why: Smite spells are completely unnecessary for a class that has the best action economy in the game. You can cast a Quickened Fireball for much more damage than a smite spell.

The strengths of Stone Sorcerer to capitalize on:

1. AC 13 + CON is superb, bordering on OP. Instead of splitting points across CHA/CON/DEX now you can focus just on CHA/CON. Besides the notable jump in AC, you're less of a glass cannon with more HP and your concentration checks are better.

2. Shield proficiency without sacrificing Sorcerer progression. There's a good reason casters don't have shield prof by default: It's powerful resourceless defense.

Human Variant is the best choice: 15 CON +1 human, 15 CHA + 1 human. Start with Warcaster. Put the other points where you want, though personally I'd take 14 WIS for anti-suck spells and Perception. This allows you to cap both CHA and CON through ASIs. You'll have one feat unallocated, or you can sacrifice it to multiclass. 2 Warlock (Undying Light) is the optimal multiclass choice, as fire spells are still the best bang for your buck. Also, your Quickened Firebolt + Twinned Firebolt will deliver nearly equivalent damage to Eldritch Blast. No more worrying about running into a force-immune mob or a fire-immune mob -- you'll always have a cantrip answer.

Starting AC: 18 = 13 base + 3 CON + 2 Shield. Plate armor equivalency at level 1, and doesn't count on the Shield spell to get there. It only gets better as you level up with Haste (+2), enchanted shield, Staff of Power (+2), Rise of Tiamat Dragon Mask (+5), Ring/Cloak of Protection (+1), Bracers of Defense (+2), +2 CON ASI (+1).

The reaction-based teleport attack is icing, not the cake, if it connects. The mobility of the effect is fantastic, if you can get it to trigger.

[Carpone]

Also, if you're using a shield then the Warcaster feat is required to be functional. It's the same problem a Valor Bard has with spellcasting while wielding sword+board.

[KnotaGuru]

Here's a question, could a stone sorcerer benefit from the AC boost of a dragon mask (from HotDQ/RoT)? That would be awesome if they could. With a 20 in CON & CHA, you'd have: Base AC of 13 + your CON modifier (5) + CHA modifier (5) + shield (2) + shield spell (5) = 30 AC. You'd be pretty much unhittable.

[Vaz]

Because you CAN boost Str because Con gets a new AC mechanic doesn't mean you should drop Stealth. Pump your Cha AND your Dex. No point having any of these abillities as a Caster if you're not going first.