Amulet of Mage Armor - What rarity would it be?

[jaappleton]

"While wearing this item, you can cast Mage Armor on yourself at will."

What would you set its rarity at?

The only thing I can find similar that actually exists is Bracers of Defense, which grant +2 to AC while not wearing armor. Good for mages, monks, and barbarians. Bracers of Defense is Rare.

But this replicates a first level spell. It's also a 2nd level Invocation on a Warlock.

So what would you put it at? If it matters to you, does the rarity you'd set change whether or not it requires Attunement? Like Uncommon if it requires Attunement to a spellcaster, and Rare without requiring Attunement?

[DracoKnight]

"While wearing this item, you can cast Mage Armor on yourself at will."

What would you set its rarity at?

The only thing I can find similar that actually exists is Bracers of Defense, which grant +2 to AC while not wearing armor. Good for mages, monks, and barbarians. Bracers of Defense is Rare.

But this replicates a first level spell. It's also a 2nd level Invocation on a Warlock.

So what would you put it at? If it matters to you, does the rarity you'd set change whether or not it requires Attunement? Like Uncommon if it requires Attunement to a spellcaster, and Rare without requiring Attunement?

I would say uncommon with 3 charges per day requiring attunement. Reminder that mage armor is range touch, not range self. With 3 charges you can cover yourself all day, or you can spend those charges giving your allies armor too :smalltongue:

[Deleted]

Eh, it isn't really all that exciting (or powerful) of a magic item so I would probably just call it rare and be done with it.

Or whatever a wand of Mage Armor is.

I mean, a Warlock can cast it at-will with no spell slot expenditure so... I feel like one of them would have made a ton of them for loved ones and stuff.

[jaappleton]

Full Disclosure since I think my DM will see this:

I'm in a party of two. I want to try the new Sorcerer stuff. Specifically Phoenix or Favored Soul. We're allowed to start with two Uncommon items.

So you see where I'm going here... if I can get a consensus on what rarity it'd be, I can present it to him for approval.

So... Fellow playgrounders. Answer honestly*



*please help me out

[Deleted]

Full Disclosure since I think my DM will see this:

I'm in a party of two. I want to try the new Sorcerer stuff. Specifically Phoenix or Favored Soul. We're allowed to start with two Uncommon items.

So you see where I'm going here... if I can get a consensus on what rarity it'd be, I can present it to him for approval.

So... Fellow playgrounders. Answer honestly*



*please help me out

Play a Variant Human and pick up Magic Initiate and just grab Mage Armor as your first level choice.

I would't call that item anything less than rare (and that's even with my bit of fluff about Warlocks making items for loved ones).

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Like Deleted said, this is a rare item. Uncommon items I can see casting Mage Armor once, possibly ever. This is Very Rare to me, since it's an at-will. It's a free AC item basically.

[jaappleton]

Ok.

So what can be done to tone it down to Uncommon?

"This amulet has 2 charges of Mage Armor with a range of Self. It replenishes all charges at dawn. Requires Attunement."

How's that?

[DracoKnight]

Ok.

So what can be done to tone it down to Uncommon?

"This amulet has 2 charges of Mage Armor with a range of Self. It replenishes all charges at dawn. Requires Attunement."

How's that?

I'd probably rate that as Uncommon.

[Squibsallotl]

If it can cast mage armor 1/day with a range of self, it's uncommon.
If it can cast mage armor at will, it's rare.

[Potato_Priest]

There's some precedent to 1st level spells at will from an uncommon item. The Ring of Jumping, the Hat of Disguise, and the Helm of Comprehending languages all do so, but they all specify a range of self if that isn't specified already. Nothing makes your item stand out there. We can also compare your item to a studded leather of +1. That's also uncommon, and provides the Same AC at no cost.

So I'd say it's an Uncommon item. There aren't many rares outside of consumables I'd pass up to have it, while there are uncommons that I'd rate it both above and below (Ring of Swimming, Ring of Warmth,Eyes of Minute Seeing are Below, while Immovable Rod, Slippers of Spider Climbing, Rind of Mind Shielding are above).

Edit: I am posting about the value of an item that requires attunement and allows you to cast Mage Armor on yourself at will.

[Vaz]

You are a Sorcerer, you have Mage Armour as a spell. Mage Armour lasts for 8 hours, and consequently, you are essentially getting +1 Spell Known and +1 Spell slot a day.

Rather than creating a specific magic item, just take a Pearl of Power, which is Uncommon. It still requires a Spell Known however.

[jaappleton]

You are a Sorcerer, you have Mage Armour as a spell. Mage Armour lasts for 8 hours, and consequently, you are essentially getting +1 Spell Known and +1 Spell slot a day.

Rather than creating a specific magic item, just take a Pearl of Power, which is Uncommon. It still requires a Spell Known however.

That's one of the issues. Pearl of Power absolutely solves it, no question. Though it still consumes the 'spells known' aspect. Which, on a Sorcerer... hurts. It does.

It's my fall back if I can't get this approved, though.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

I'd say it could be at-will and uncommon with a 'self-only' clause.

[Vaz]

That's one of the issues. Pearl of Power absolutely solves it, no question. Though it still consumes the 'spells known' aspect. Which, on a Sorcerer... hurts. It does.

It's my fall back if I can't get this approved, though.

So what extra spell do you want to get access to? Wand of Magic Missiles may free up a spell for 2-6 daily castings of MM.

[jaappleton]

At level 3, as a new Favored Soul, I only know 4 spells. To have 25% of my spells known taken up by Mage Armor sucks.

Mage Armor, Shield, Healing Word, Bless... Haven't touched any damage spells, let alone AoE, or any debuff or control spells.

See the issue? By eliminating the need for Mage Armor but keeping its effect, I can get one debuff or damage spell. Still not 100% perfect, but it absolutely helps.

Thinking Hold Person or Guiding Bolt, personally. Twinning GB is fun. And taking maybe Shatter next to have an AoE.

[Deleted]

At level 3, as a new Favored Soul, I only know 4 spells. To have 25% of my spells known taken up by Mage Armor sucks.

Mage Armor, Shield, Healing Word, Bless... Haven't touched any damage spells, let alone AoE, or any debuff or control spells.

See the issue? By eliminating the need for Mage Armor but keeping its effect, I can get one debuff or damage spell. Still not 100% perfect, but it absolutely helps.

Thinking Hold Person or Guiding Bolt, personally. Twinning GB is fun. And taking maybe Shatter next to have an AoE.

You aren't "giving up" anything if you are getting something you feel you need.

If it really is a problem, magic initiate is the solution. Get a magic item that is going to expand your options or be cool, don't waste it on mage armor.

You are trying to do too much with the Sorcerer, pick a focus and stick with that focus. It's like you are trying to play a Wizard but by choosing a Sorcerer. You are also trying to cram too much into a low level caster.


4 Spells @ level 3

Mage Armor
Healing Word
Bless
Burning Hands or Thunderwave

Your single target damage will come from cantrips. Pick up Firebolt, Shocking Grasp, and Sacred Flame plus two utility cantrips.

At level 4 you gain an additional spell known... Hold Person i guess.

Rule of Sorcerer: You aren't going to be able to do everything, you can do a lot, but you aren't a wizard or like other full casters.

[The Shadowdove]

If it's a cast once or twice a day kind of thing, uncommon.

If it permanently applies mage armor while attuned, rare.

It'd be more rare if it didn't overwrite class feature armor.

It specifies armor class is 13+dex. So things like unarmored defense wouldn't stack.

If it merely said "your base armor increases to 13", allowing Constitution to AC(barbarian) or wisdom to AC(monk), then I'd say it'd be a higher rarity.

So really it's only useful for non armor wearers without a built in armor calculation bonus, or for dexterity based builds until they gain magical armor.

[Foxhound438]

According to the DMG's crafting magic items rules, uncommon items can be as strong as casting a 3rd level spell once per day.

Not exactly 1 for 1, but casting a L1 3 times a day instead seems fine on an uncommon still, especially since it's not the most impactful spell in the game.

For a more direct parallel, Wand of Magic Missiles is also an uncommon, requires no attunement, and can cast a L1 spell an average of 4.5 times per day, and despite being a 1 action spell that certainly doesn't do the most damage in the world, I'd have to argue that MM's guaranteed damage is a lot more powerful than a point or 2 of AC.

[Lonely Tylenol]

Why does it need to cast the spell?

You could make it an attuned item with the language, "while you are wearing and attuned to this item and you are not wearing armor or wielding a shield, your Armor Class becomes 13 + your Dexterity modifier." Avoids the issue of it having to cast the spell directly, but the language is not distinct from the language of mage armor itself. If it requires an attunement slot, a case could be made for uncommon, though it could just as easily be rare.

[jaappleton]

Why does it need to cast the spell?

You could make it an attuned item with the language, "while you are wearing and attuned to this item and you are not wearing armor or wielding a shield, your Armor Class becomes 13 + your Dexterity modifier." Avoids the issue of it having to cast the spell directly, but the language is not distinct from the language of mage armor itself. If it requires an attunement slot, a case could be made for uncommon, though it could just as easily be rare.

I believe doing it this way also negates any sort of Dispel Magic shenanigans....

Either way, I think we're at a general consensus: Getting Mage Armor, with Attunement, is pretty much Uncommon, correct? The wording of course needs to be nailed down, but for the intent of this, it's Uncommon, correct?

[DracoKnight]

I believe doing it this way also negates any sort of Dispel Magic shenanigans....

Either way, I think we're at a general consensus: Getting Mage Armor, with Attunement, is pretty much Uncommon, correct? The wording of course needs to be nailed down, but for the intent of this, it's Uncommon, correct?

Eyep. It's definitely not Rare or higher. It's also not a common item. It can be replicated with a feat, and requires attunement, so I'd say Uncommon.

[coredump]

Not sure I agree.

Bracers of Defense gives you +2, which can be added to Monk/Barb/etc, and is rare.
This gives a +3, but can't be added to those situations. Not convinced that would lower it to Uncommon.

[jaappleton]

Not sure I agree.

Bracers of Defense gives you +2, which can be added to Monk/Barb/etc, and is rare.
This gives a +3, but can't be added to those situations. Not convinced that would lower it to Uncommon.

It's a replication of (or the ability to cast) a first level spell. There's nothing which replicates or adds on to DC like Bracers of Defense do. BoD stacks on top of 'armor' (Unarmored Defense, Mage Armor, Draconic Resilience, etc) while Mage Armor doesn't.

[Deleted]

It's a replication of (or the ability to cast) a first level spell. There's nothing which replicates or adds on to DC like Bracers of Defense do. BoD stacks on top of 'armor' (Unarmored Defense, Mage Armor, Draconic Resilience, etc) while Mage Armor doesn't.

It isn't about the replication but about how powerful it is in relation to other magic items.

Mage Armor is better than the +2 Bracers. If you have equal dex mods the mage armor comes out 1 point ahead.

The exception is with Barbarians, Monks, and Stone Sorcerers.

[jaappleton]

It isn't about the replication but about how powerful it is in relation to other magic items.

Mage Armor is better than the +2 Bracers. If you have equal dex mods the mage armor comes out 1 point ahead.

The exception is with Barbarians, Monks, and Stone Sorcerers.

Ok, if we're discussing magic items that grant bonuses to AC...

Cloak of Protection requires Attunement and grants +1 AC and +1 to all saving throws, and is Uncommon. This stacks on top of anything.

I argue that's actually superior to Bracers of Defense, as its good for anyone at all.

[DracoKnight]

It isn't about the replication but about how powerful it is in relation to other magic items.

Mage Armor is better than the +2 Bracers. If you have equal dex mods the mage armor comes out 1 point ahead.

The exception is with Barbarians, Monks, and Stone Sorcerers.

Looking at the bracers of defense:

+2 AC while you are wearing no armor and not wielding a shield.

Let's look at who this is useful for:

Barbarians, Monks, Draconic Sorcerers, and Stone Sorcerers benefit from it, since by default they are unarmored. However, it also benefits anyone who uses mage armor. So Bladesingers 13 + DEX + INT +2 (bracers of defense) they can also get even crazier with +2 from haste, and unlimited shield at 18th level for an additional +5) are even harder to hit, Arcane Tricksters with Mage Armor cast, DEX-based Eldritch Knights with mage armor. Warlocks with Armor of Shadows... It stacks with mage armor. Mage armor is not better than the bracers of defense. The bracers are superior because they add a bonus to your calculation, rather than providing a new calculation.

[Joe the Rat]

Lessee.

A scroll of Mage Armor is a one shot, common magic item, only usable by Wizards and Sorcerers (and EKs and ATs).
A potion of climbing is also a one shot, common magic item, usable by anyone.

Gloves of swimming and climbing are uncommon, do the same thing as the potion (roughly), and adds swimming, and is always on. Requires attunement.
comparing upward, an item that casts Mage Armor, self only, requiring attunement is in the neighborhood. Attunement by caster only, with limited uses? probably fits as uncommon.

Or let's work this the other way.
Bracers of defense are rare. +2 to AC to any unarmored character (so it stacks with Unarmored Defense - monks, barbarians, a variety of sorcerers, lizardfolk... maybe mage armor depending on where the "is it armor or no" rules stand), always on, and requires attunement.
So an extra +1 AC (better), on an item that has a must-be-activated, time-limited effect (worse), only usable by a more restricted group of users (worse), and doesn't stack with unarmored defense options (worse)... probably should come out to uncommon.

Taking it as an amulet, or any other item (I'm a fan of enchanted robes and force field belts), with less than 24 hour duration (1 or 2) should be in-bounds for uncommon. The fact that the restricted usability happens to include this specific user is not a factor on determining item rarity, though it may be one of in-game balance (i.e. DM saying yes).

I suppose your other option is to ask how many "common" magic items can you get in place of an uncommon, and stock up on Mage Armor scrolls. Going by DMSRP, 10 commons runs as much as an uncommon. Get 10 scrolls. That might cover you to our next level up, where it won't hurt as much to burn a known spell slot on Mage Armor.

[Foxhound438]

Not sure I agree.

Bracers of Defense gives you +2, which can be added to Monk/Barb/etc, and is rare.
This gives a +3, but can't be added to those situations. Not convinced that would lower it to Uncommon.

bracers of defense is a bonus, whereas mage armor is a recalc. Bracers are rare because they can be stacked with any other bonus or recalc, which pushes the limit of bounded accuracy.

[DragonSorcererX]

Both the Wand of Magic Missile and Wand of Web are Uncommon Magic Items, and, with the Wand of Magic Missile you can expend all the charges to cast Magic Missile at 8th level that would deal an average of 35 Force Damage with no attack roll or saving throw, and the Wand of Web lets you cast the Web Spell (that is really good) with DC 15 (wich is decent for the level that you can get one) 7 times in the same day.

So, I would say that an Amulet of Magic Armor with 3 charges (because the day has 24 hours) would be uncommon, would not require attunement, and the spell would be canceled if the amulet is removed (this way people will not use the amulet like a drug syringe).

[Lord Il Palazzo]

Both the Wand of Magic Missile and Wand of Web are Uncommon Magic Items, and, with the Wand of Magic Missile you can expend all the charges to cast Magic Missile at 8th level that would deal an average of 35 Force Damage with no attack roll or saving throw, and the Wand of Web lets you cast the Web Spell (that is really good) with DC 15 (wich is decent for the level that you can get one) 7 times in the same day.

So, I would say that an Amulet of Magic Armor with 3 charges (because the day has 24 hours) would be uncommon, would not require attunement, and the spell would be canceled if the amulet is removed (this way people will not use the amulet like a drug syringe).That's basically my take on it. Wands of Magic Detection, Magic Missiles and Web are all uncommon and I wouldn't say that Mage Armor is disproportionately powerful compared to Detect Magic, Magic Missile and Web. I certainly wouldn't say it's as powerful as Fireball or Lightning Bolt (which are spells that show up on rare wands). If you keep the number of charges low (3 covers a whole day and doesn't seem terribly unreasonable, 2 is even more reasonable and should cover your whole adventuring day 90% of the time) and maybe adding a self-only and a "the effect ends if the amulet is removed riders (if you want to be positive only one person benefits from it at a time) would make me really comfortable as a DM calling this uncommon.